EPTYou easily had enough time to check if the zerg was taking a third with your zealots/adepts before deciding to all in. There is no general rule, you're playing a game of infinite variables.
The LotV Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 47
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-HuShang-
Canada393 Posts
You easily had enough time to check if the zerg was taking a third with your zealots/adepts before deciding to all in. There is no general rule, you're playing a game of infinite variables. | ||
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iMrising
United States1099 Posts
On October 29 2016 15:12 Icekin wrote: ok, but let's say i just defended from an early pressure from zerg. You say "if he recover eco then attack". Problem is i need to choose right after the pressure (i would say even during the pressure) if I want to macro or counterattack. Since most of zergs open with cheesy/aggressive build on some maps (sejong is bust map f.e.), what is the general rule? From hots experience if I hold a push I'm on top and can counterattack and win. Now zergs have can tech faster to roach/ravagers or hydra off 2 base and gain tech advantage really fast compared to toss. Should I just try to not take so much damage and go for a standard game like nothing happened? Because if zerg is tryng to recover eco i need to prepare a good counterattack in 2 minute or less or he will totally back in the game even. you have to scout what the zerg does. that is all. If he's getting a 3rd and droning -> you can counterattack if he's staying on 2 base - > you don't counterattack and will want to defend the second wave. Everything is dependent on scouting. Nothing can be generalized as easily as you want it to be. | ||
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kaluro
Netherlands760 Posts
On December 04 2015 17:41 Whitewing wrote: We'll be updating the OP soon, but opted to post the thread now and start generating discussion. When's the OP going to be updated? I'm switching from zerg to protoss and don't see a single build up there yet. There's early/mid/late game buttons for all 3 matchups that don't do anything. | ||
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AusProbe
Australia235 Posts
In the mean time, check out the sticked threads on https://www.reddit.com/r/allthingsprotoss/ | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
On November 04 2016 18:21 kaluro wrote: When's the OP going to be updated? I'm switching from zerg to protoss and don't see a single build up there yet. There's early/mid/late game buttons for all 3 matchups that don't do anything. I'm pleased to say that we have recently began working on exactly what you requested. | ||
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On November 04 2016 21:45 Probe1 wrote: I'm pleased to say that we have recently began working on exactly what you requested. Isn't it odd to start doing that right before a major patch hit? Everything will change after blizzcon Or are you just preparing for that right now? | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
On November 04 2016 23:33 ArtyK wrote: Isn't it odd to start doing that right before a major patch hit? Everything will change after blizzcon Or are you just preparing for that right now? Yes it is, and it's something that has slowed down progress. It will be a continual effort and once the new patch hits we will revise out of date content. In the meantime we are working on a small update in celebration of Blizzcon. | ||
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HelpMeGetBetter
United States764 Posts
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Alluton
Finland113 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24238 Posts
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Odowan Paleolithic
United States232 Posts
On November 13 2016 08:16 [PkF] Wire wrote: If T proxies his first rax to get his reaper quick into your base, should you delay the Nexus for a quicker cyber core ? Not going to give you the conventional answer since you will probably find out anyway. (Yes, unless you godly surrounds his reapers. Your early extra units can delay his natural if you time the units to kill the SCV that is building the bunker.) I play very unorthodox (possibly why I'm above 50% PvT and ~30% PvZ and stuck in mid/bottom diamond). I scout the after the 12/13 pylon. I build a gate as soon as possible and chronoboost the first zealot unless I know the zerg is being aggressive (always do it against Terran). Against Terran proceed as follows: 1. The probe scout no or late barracks, the probe can usually get into the base and check gas. 2.a No complete wall -> Proceed to pylon rushing on short air maps. If not, try to block the wall and addons, 2.b Barely finishing wall, barracks not in wall (depot as place holder) -> Check for barracks and proxies. AND proceed to pylon rushing 2.c Barracks in wall and mostly finishing (most common). ->Try to delay his addons. If no addons check for proxy factory if you know the gas count. 3.a Send zealot in and start working on the proxy. 3.b Send the zealot in and start working on his wall. Defend home with adepts and start pylon rushing. 3.c Cybercore and fast oracle at home. Ignore the e-bay block but try kill his SCV building it. Use the first zealot to chase the reaper until adept and mothership core arrives. If his first barracks is all the way out in the map he will not have enough units to defend. I feel reaper is vastly overvalued in PvT match up. For the first 50 gas it cannot compete the 25 gas adept. If it is just for scouting the first SCV is (usually) sufficient. Then the Protoss get careless and skip the first units and the reaper gets its worth. | ||
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On November 13 2016 09:09 Odowan Paleolithic wrote: Not going to give you the conventional answer since you will probably find out anyway. (Yes, unless you godly surrounds his reapers. Your early extra units can delay his natural if you time the units to kill the SCV that is building the bunker.) I play very unorthodox (possibly why I'm above 50% PvT and ~30% PvZ and stuck in mid/bottom diamond). I scout the after the 12/13 pylon. I build a gate as soon as possible and chronoboost the first zealot unless I know the zerg is being aggressive (always do it against Terran). Against Terran proceed as follows: 1. The probe scout no or late barracks, the probe can usually get into the base and check gas. 2.a No complete wall -> Proceed to pylon rushing on short air maps. If not, try to block the wall and addons, 2.b Barely finishing wall, barracks not in wall (depot as place holder) -> Check for barracks and proxies. AND proceed to pylon rushing 2.c Barracks in wall and mostly finishing (most common). ->Try to delay his addons. If no addons check for proxy factory if you know the gas count. 3.a Send zealot in and start working on the proxy. 3.b Send the zealot in and start working on his wall. Defend home with adepts and start pylon rushing. 3.c Cybercore and fast oracle at home. Ignore the e-bay block but try kill his SCV building it. Use the first zealot to chase the reaper until adept and mothership core arrives. If his first barracks is all the way out in the map he will not have enough units to defend. I feel reaper is vastly overvalued in PvT match up. For the first 50 gas it cannot compete the 25 gas adept. If it is just for scouting the first SCV is (usually) sufficient. Then the Protoss get careless and skip the first units and the reaper gets its worth. Pretty sure he just meant a proxy rax with only one reaper, just to get in before msc/adept are out to disrupt economy. Now Wire if you know it's proxy rax i guess you scouted nothing in the terrans base, just the 1 gas and CC natural? If no CC it'd be wiser to make the cyber before nexus (although i generally still nexus-cyber because i don't know how to play and assume i can hold whatever) If 1 gas + CC i think i'd just play standard, chrono a mothership core when cyber is done (gets out 3 seconds earlier than chronoed adept) and hopefully micro probes well enough so you lose less than 4. The guy severely delayed his rax production so it's fine. If you don't want to make the msc the adept is ok but you might lose extra probes On one hand if you go gate-cyber while he's doing the classic 1rax expand your eco is delayed, on the other you lose some probes but get double probe production and chronoboost sooner. Maybe someone has the definite answer, i don't play against this often enough. EDIT : Alrgiht i remembered ByuN did that to someone at blizzcon and thx to the freshly released wcs finals replays i found him doing it against Dear. Dear opened standard nexus-cyber, scouted super late (probe only arrived at the main ramp to see 2 depots and a factory in the wall), and reacted by chronoing out a zealot before the cyber was done. That means he had a unit to chase away the reaper earlier and with his micro he only lost 1 probe. So that's something you could do | ||
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AusProbe
Australia235 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24238 Posts
Another question, can someone do some kind of recap of what the important changes for the P match-ups are in the upcoming balance patch ? I tried to play some games on the testing ladder but the queues are unbelievably long so I gave up. | ||
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Entropy137
Canada215 Posts
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iMrising
United States1099 Posts
On November 19 2016 01:09 Entropy137 wrote: I just cannot win vs terran anymore, 4500 mmr. Seems like it doesn't matter what they do, I just cant take cost effective trades with there armies. Wondering what type of style or builds people are using nowadays. Any advice would be appreciated. can you perhaps provide a replay? I had trouble with PvT as well but after bothering several practice partners I also managed to improve PvT. | ||
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Davec433
18 Posts
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Dracover
Australia177 Posts
On November 19 2016 01:09 Entropy137 wrote: I just cannot win vs terran anymore, 4500 mmr. Seems like it doesn't matter what they do, I just cant take cost effective trades with there armies. Wondering what type of style or builds people are using nowadays. Any advice would be appreciated. I have the same problem actually. The whole game feels like a serious of small engagements then a lose. When I review the data afterwards, it's always that I'm losing marginally on small engagement and after 20 engagements you are way behind. Personally I find its not possible to force engagements, it's always up to terran when they want to engage and assuming your opponent is competent you will always take slightly worse loses. | ||
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insitelol
845 Posts
If you guys are still playing gate-heavy styles that may be the reason. Try colosi. I got the following BO: Gate expand robo as soon as u have 100 gas after MC and 1 stalker add 2 gates add bay as soon as robo finishes 2 obs start building 1st colosi after that + expand (pretty fast 3rd) So you literally have 1 stalker with the 1st colosi building if terran is passive (insane lead). If you scouted any kind of agression (with 1st obs) - just warp 3 stalkers to defend and delay colosi. So in this scenario it depends on how you defend the agression. I, personally, never met any kind of situation where i was unable to defend (only if i fuckup). (If it's 1 base allin obviously this BO doesnt work). Terran is often starting to be agressive when ur 3rd is half way done (you have like 1 colosi and ~4-5 stalkers at that moment). Ye it could be tricky, but. You definitely can defned it with PO. When 2nd colosi is out you gona be safe 100%. After that you lead only grows. Build up to 4 colosi, add blink stalkers - move out. and do it HoTS Style. I've been having HUGE success in PvT with that build. I'm at ~4600 but i destroy ~4800-4900 terrans with no real effort with pvt being my best MU. Hope it helped. p.s. i never understood how people could play any kind of gate-based comps in pvt. As game progresses adepts bacome useless shit. Outside of allins they are total crap. After the patch we wont see them anyways so w.e. And w/o adepts we are playing HoTS. | ||
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On November 22 2016 00:17 insitelol wrote: To all who's been struggling in pvt. If you guys are still playing gate-heavy styles that may be the reason. Try colosi. I got the following BO: Gate expand robo as soon as u have 100 gas after MC and 1 stalker add 2 gates add bay as soon as robo finishes 2 obs start building 1st colosi after that + expand (pretty fast 3rd) So you literally have 1 stalker with the 1st colosi building if terran is passive (insane lead). If you scouted any kind of agression (with 1st obs) - just warp 3 stalkers to defend and delay colosi. So in this scenario it depends on how you defend the agression. I, personally, never met any kind of situation where i was unable to defend (only if i fuckup). (If it's 1 base allin obviously this BO doesnt work). Terran is often starting to be agressive when ur 3rd is half way done (you have like 1 colosi and ~4-5 stalkers at that moment). Ye it could be tricky, but. You definitely can defned it with PO. When 2nd colosi is out you gona be safe 100%. After that you lead only grows. Build up to 4 colosi, add blink stalkers - move out. and do it HoTS Style. I've been having HUGE success in PvT with that build. I'm at ~4600 but i destroy ~4800-4900 terrans with no real effort with pvt being my best MU. Hope it helped. p.s. i never understood how people could play any kind of gate-based comps in pvt. As game progresses adepts bacome useless shit. Outside of allins they are total crap. After the patch we wont see them anyways so w.e. And w/o adepts we are playing HoTS. I've been playing gate heavy in PvT the entirety of LOTV and it has been my best matchup as a random player. You just get an overwhelming amount of upgraded adepts with 14-16 stalkers, and always take engagements by shading everything on top of the bio + blink at the last second to kill liberators/medivacs. I generally go for storm behind it but i can often win without it. The playstyle requires good positionning, and constant army movement. It helps a lot having the robo free to make observers, so you don't get surprised by drops. I open with glaive warp prism harass but you can totally just go for blink and play defensive instead, then you're pretty much safe against everything The patch will definitely make adepts worse though. | ||
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