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On September 23 2016 23:55 DrunkenJedi wrote:
Hi, need a standard opening in PvZ on Galactic Process. The standard 19 Nexus sucks most of the time against early pool since there's no way to wall off properly. Thx for help :D.
You can wall off 1 pylon 1 gate 1 cybercore in the natural ramp (so in fact easier to wall than for example new gettysburg.)
Alternatively you can wall around your nexus but that requires a second pylon.
I don't think you should have more of a problem defending early pool on that map then any other map (you can't/don't want to rush a natural wall vs early pool anyway)
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On September 19 2016 09:50 [PkF] Wire wrote:
proxy reaper into 2 factories mass cyclones with upgrade, floating the proxy rax to keep vision for the lock-ons : what should be the plan ?
I just met this build twice in a row and lost twice obviously. Incredibly strong :/
If the solution is to prism micro, I guess I'm fucked...
(I'm low master, no way I can micro prism efficiently enough, but I'll try)
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On September 25 2016 00:00 tamino wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2016 09:50 [PkF] Wire wrote:
proxy reaper into 2 factories mass cyclones with upgrade, floating the proxy rax to keep vision for the lock-ons : what should be the plan ? I just met this build twice in a row and lost twice obviously. Incredibly strong :/ If the solution is to prism micro, I guess I'm fucked... (I'm low master, no way I can micro prism efficiently enough, but I'll try)
master 2 here. It's indeed awfully hard to beat. Both phoenix and prism make sense but it's a really hard micro battle, to the point I'm actually unsure you should be expanding when you scout it (probe arrives at base -> no rax and 2 gas). One of the guys that beat me with it told me 1 base blink couldn't lose to that build.
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i never faced that build, do you know where i can find the BO for that? Maybe i can find a timing that works vs it. Sounds rly scary to me
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On September 25 2016 01:33 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2016 00:00 tamino wrote:On September 19 2016 09:50 [PkF] Wire wrote:
proxy reaper into 2 factories mass cyclones with upgrade, floating the proxy rax to keep vision for the lock-ons : what should be the plan ? I just met this build twice in a row and lost twice obviously. Incredibly strong :/ If the solution is to prism micro, I guess I'm fucked... (I'm low master, no way I can micro prism efficiently enough, but I'll try) master 2 here. It's indeed awfully hard to beat. Both phoenix and prism make sense but it's a really hard micro battle, to the point I'm actually unsure you should be expanding when you scout it (probe arrives at base -> no rax and 2 gas). One of the guys that beat me with it told me 1 base blink couldn't lose to that build.
I played a guy who did this opening and I tried 1 base play, expect all he did was take scv's off gas and expanded. Then you are way behind if you are not expanding.
Personally I think the only change you should make from a normal build is chrono boost stalkers whilst going reasonbly normal. i.e. stalkers, robo and more gates. Basically rely on the warp prism for micro.
I think just like the old 1-1-1 it's one of those builds that are easier to execute then it is to defend. But it does not necessarily need a vastly different buiild order.
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On September 26 2016 08:43 Dracover wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2016 01:33 [PkF] Wire wrote:On September 25 2016 00:00 tamino wrote:On September 19 2016 09:50 [PkF] Wire wrote:
proxy reaper into 2 factories mass cyclones with upgrade, floating the proxy rax to keep vision for the lock-ons : what should be the plan ? I just met this build twice in a row and lost twice obviously. Incredibly strong :/ If the solution is to prism micro, I guess I'm fucked... (I'm low master, no way I can micro prism efficiently enough, but I'll try) master 2 here. It's indeed awfully hard to beat. Both phoenix and prism make sense but it's a really hard micro battle, to the point I'm actually unsure you should be expanding when you scout it (probe arrives at base -> no rax and 2 gas). One of the guys that beat me with it told me 1 base blink couldn't lose to that build. I played a guy who did this opening and I tried 1 base play, expect all he did was take scv's off gas and expanded. Then you are way behind if you are not expanding. Personally I think the only change you should make from a normal build is chrono boost stalkers whilst going reasonbly normal. i.e. stalkers, robo and more gates. Basically rely on the warp prism for micro. I think just like the old 1-1-1 it's one of those builds that are easier to execute then it is to defend. But it does not necessarily need a vastly different buiild order.
Not quite sure what my win rate against these builds are, but I've found that a lot of players i've been playing have been screwing up a lot (e.g., letting me close the distance and kill/highly damage cyclones) and I'm still struggling to deal with it. I feel like if the terran doesn't screw up, it's a difficult hold even with the safest expansion build with lots of chronoed stalkers (stalkers do work well, but they also don't actually hurt the terran much at all if they're focusing all the time). I agree that it might not necessarily need a different build order, but the warp prism defence is difficult (tbf I'm pretty bad, but it's not that hard to get your WP locked onto and killed).
Really does feel like the old 1/1/1 days haha. In fact, I think all heavy tech pushes by Terran are really strong atm. In my experience, the games always get really scrappy and weird.
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On October 06 2016 09:41 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:
How do you beat Zerg?
With constant harass and multi task. I really like 2 adept pressure off 1 gate tc+Robo into 4 Gate with 4 dt/ 2 archon harass. Follow up with third, forge and chargelot immortal archon push at 7 min. Neeb did it in kespa cup
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I've been wanting to expand my repertoire of builds, but aside from /r/allthingsprotoss and imbabuilds the number of builds available have been dwindling. Is there another source available besides those two, or perhaps any notable replays you guys have besides what I've listed?
Thanks
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What's the best counter to ling/bane hydra?
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On October 19 2016 21:45 Davec433 wrote:
What's the best counter to ling/bane hydra?
anything + sentries + ht for storm. IAC also works as long as you can split your chargelots.
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http://ggtracker.com/matches/6846490
nightmare - rage replay
Zerg starts with pool first, i scout it and deny his first and second ling attack with few zealots.
I then go for an expand and a proxy gate with dts to punish his aggressive opening, he was too well defended and i morph dts into archons.
He go baneling ling with spines and queen, and hold my pressure with zealots and archons.
I deny his third base, he go for massive hydra production (on 2 base) and straight kill me.
Now, I'm sure i'm not a top player, but neither he is a top player.
How is possible that a zerg can open such aggressive way (12 lings), make second base, waste resources on spine and go for 30+hydras with lurkers off only 2 bases?
In hots if zerg had same bases than protoss, zerg was behind. In lotv protoss need to be ahead of base and tech to kill a zerg. Even my trades went so zerg favored.
What I should do on that map?
How i can punish these kind of opening?
How can i put pressure if zerg just turtle on 2 base and get tech advantage over me?
I'm way more interested in strategic discussion, so please don't asnwer stuff like "u lost X units there with better micro bla bla" because that zerg had no more micro or brain to beat me there.
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You may not want to hear it but if you look at the graphs though when you did your counter you were very inefficient and the engagement was poor. If you want to complain about balance there are plenty of places to do that. It's easier to roll 9 banes into an army than it is to split your army to minimise damage.
Strategically when you saw all the defenses up and should have been happy you made him make so much spines and army and go home and expand.
However you chose to engage and the fight didn't go your way. Once you chose to fight and lost, the game "stabilized" ie you lost your advantage and the rest could have gone either way. You didn't have a lead anymore after the attack.
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@Icekin
Not dieing to an attack does not mean you defended it successfully. In your case you way over react. Instead of starting your cybernetics core you start a second gateway which doesn't do anything for you to hold. At ~2:00 you can see you already have a zealot with a second zealot on on the way. This would have been more than enough to defend his attack and would also not put you way behind in tech from where you're supposed to be. On top of this you didn't put your zealot in the wall which let him kill 2 free probes and 2 zealots plus he prevented some mining time PLUS he forced an extra 2 zealots to be made and on top of that he even killed a pylon and another probe.
He follows the attack up with some poor decisions of his own which puts you relatively even going into the midgame despite rather weird circumstances. ie) lair started on 28 drones and +1 almost done with a 2nd evo on the way. Really unlikely he can use both of these. You make 7 gateways, but only have 1 base to support them, so you waste a ton of money here. You're behind in probes which shouldn't really happen in 2 base vs 2 base because the third base + third queen are what allow zerg to gain a drone lead.
Straightforward version: you're attacking a player investing all of his money into tech and units. No window exists here to kill him.Plus you attacked him where he was the strongest. Right into both of his spine crawlers instead of continuously denying his third which might have put you into a decent position.
Basically you expected this player to play what is typically referred to as the best way to play (quick expansions and low tech) as zerg. This is standard because the way in which he played is easily abused by expanding and countering his tech choice(zerg relies heavily on tech transitions to gain an edge and can't do so with low economy). It is not however, abused by the way in which you played out the game and you played right into his hands by attacking him.
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Ok so basically I can't get on top of a zerg opening aggressive. I have to survive, macro, playing standard without punish or counterattack him. is this right?
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On October 29 2016 05:35 Icekin wrote:
Ok so basically I can't get on top of a zerg opening aggressive. I have to survive, macro, playing standard without punish or counterattack him. is this right?
no, this is not right. Don't refer to hushang's advice as a blanket statement for all games where the zerg opens aggressively. He was critiquing some of the decisions on a micro level, not a macro level.
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The question you should be asking is "why pressure an aggressive zerg?" You'll be ahead if you defend, and if he tries to recover eco then attack. The old adage of "when your opponent is attacking, defend, when defending, expand, when expanding, attack" is not unreasonable advice here.
Only speaking in generalities since you seem hell bent on generalizing the very good advice you were given
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On October 29 2016 11:13 yubo56 wrote:
The question you should be asking is "why pressure an aggressive zerg?" You'll be ahead if you defend, and if he tries to recover eco then attack. The old adage of "when your opponent is attacking, defend, when defending, expand, when expanding, attack" is not unreasonable advice here.
Only speaking in generalities since you seem hell bent on generalizing the very good advice you were given
ok, but let's say i just defended from an early pressure from zerg.
You say "if he recover eco then attack".
Problem is i need to choose right after the pressure (i would say even during the pressure) if I want to macro or counterattack.
Since most of zergs open with cheesy/aggressive build on some maps (sejong is bust map f.e.), what is the general rule? From hots experience if I hold a push I'm on top and can counterattack and win. Now zergs have can tech faster to roach/ravagers or hydra off 2 base and gain tech advantage really fast compared to toss.
Should I just try to not take so much damage and go for a standard game like nothing happened?
Because if zerg is tryng to recover eco i need to prepare a good counterattack in 2 minute or less or he will totally back in the game even.
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EPT
