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On March 01 2016 17:04 ThreeLilpigs wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2016 16:16 Icekin wrote:On March 01 2016 01:10 ThreeLilpigs wrote:
guys can you help me how to do wall off in ruins of seras against zerg... so annoying to completely get run by
Build 1-2 pylon between ramp and natural nexus, place gateways to complete wall from ramp to nexus. This way u r main ramp will be extra safe while forcing enemy units to take your po is it possible to wall off with your first pylon and gateway or do it after a wall has been made in the main base?
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0poqpSm.png)
There's a Gateway just below the Pylon at the bottom, the only gap is between the Core and the Nexus. If you watch State's stream you can see his reactions to 13 Gas 12 Pool and 12 Pools, he worked out some good building placements.
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Honestly..this one looking like "gold" not diamond.
First of all. you open 2 gate +cybern before nexus, then you stoped probe production and boosted 1 adept, then you make 3 more adepts one by one, and send them to attack at ~4:05...by that time if you opened nexus first, you would have same adepts + mothership + 10more probes.
So main problem is build...get good one and practice, dont open on this map too defensive, 1 gate1gas-nexus-cybernetics is ok to defend everything without too much effort. then transfer to sg+robo or twillight robo, and place 3-d earlyer. at ~4:00 for example
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On March 03 2016 18:25 TedBurtle wrote:Honestly..this one looking like "gold" not diamond. First of all. you open 2 gate +cybern before nexus, then you stoped probe production and boosted 1 adept, then you make 3 more adepts one by one, and send them to attack at ~4:05...by that time if you opened nexus first, you would have same adepts + mothership + 10more probes. So main problem is build...get good one and practice, dont open on this map too defensive, 1 gate1gas-nexus-cybernetics is ok to defend everything without too much effort. then transfer to sg+robo or twillight robo, and place 3-d earlyer. at ~4:00 for example
Goal was to open Adept to punish 3 Hatch before pool, which is fairly common on this map. Build was messed up because Probes were on gas too early and the late Pylon led me to be supply capped. It did a ton of damage though- it forced a total of 6 (!!!) Spines. No speed, and super early Roach Warren.His third was early, but I actually got to use my third before him. You're correct though. My third timings are really slow all the time. It's just hard to "get a feel" for it in this expac.
On reflection, the tech choice was really wonky. No Phoenix, but no AoE, so the eventual Lurker fight was way too hard. That soft surround by his reinforcements did more damage than I thought. I thought I could easily kill whatever he had in front of me. A few Chargelots when we came to attack my fourth would have won me the game, I think. Conversely, I had a lot of time to go up to Disruptor instead of getting Archons, but I tried to shoehorn Immortal/Chargelot/Archon.
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Hi. I'm protoss and been trying to improve by playing vs GTAI. I consistently lose hard against it's protoss timing attacks (easy level), particularily the 4 gate and the double forge. I've looked around for counters to those but haven't found much. Help!
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On March 05 2016 20:22 NuBee2112 wrote:
Hi. I'm protoss and been trying to improve by playing vs GTAI. I consistently lose hard against it's protoss timing attacks (easy level), particularily the 4 gate and the double forge. I've looked around for counters to those but haven't found much. Help!
If you're struggling againt easy AI, you're not really in need of a counter BO, but a BO period that you could easily execute and improve upon. 4Gate PvP is kinda out of the meta because by playing pretty normal and using photon overcharge you should be fine. The most obvious way to play against that is 2gate Robo (3rd gateway comes later during the fight) and use photon overcharge to buy time for enough of your units to get out. You may build your 1st pylon and gateway at your ramp so that you are ready to close it with a pylon if you face too many adepts. I've rarely seen double forge in PvP because Protoss are usually in dire need of gas to play Blink Stalkers + Disruptors + immo/archon.
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Hey guys!
Lately PvZ has been a lot about stargate openings into double robo archon-chargelot-immortal to counter lurkers, a good example of this being Neeb vs Hydra the other day in Katowice.
Yet in one of his games Neeb went for disruptor blink, and i couldn't figure out why considering Hydra was still going for the same composition.
It was on lerilak, a very open map with lots of room to engage with an archon-charge-immo army, just like central protocol where Neeb actually used the latter, so i don't think it's map related (maybe spawn related?).
He also opened without stargate, adept speed + dts, which means he already had the twilight for charge+templar archive, but he went for double robo disruptor instead
I'm really confused on what makes you decide wether or not to go for one or the other
Any insights?
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He didn't open phoenix and wanted to be aggressive.
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Hey guys, I'm back with more questions!
How do you counter an early expansion? I scouted a terran opening CC first, quickly pumped out 3 stalkers and attacked, but by the time I got there he had a lot of marines. I scouted a zerg who went double expand before pool, and by the time I built units and got them there, he had queens and zergling to stop me. I can't seem to build units and get them across the field fast enough to do anything.
What counters marines early game? Zealots get kited, adapts kill too slowly and have too short a range, and stalkers don't seem to be able to kill enough to be cost effective either. I've lost a few games to players who just expanded and started flooding me with marines before I could make it to T3 to hopefully have something to counter them.
Is there any way to practice getting higher APM? I'm not struggling to do anything I'm trying to do, I've gotten better at spending my minerals and keeping them sub 400 through most of the game, but I still float around 60-65 apm. I can't even figure out the other 4-5 clicks I'm supposed to be making every second.
How do you punish terran for building missile turrets? People keep saying that if they stop my harass by blindly building turrets, then there army will be small, but their 'small' army still doesn't have much of a problem crushing mine. I've been trying to harass more, but between turrets, and terran keeping their army at home, I can't seem to get much done. Not nearly as much as their liberators/drops do. I want to be able to harass more because it feels like the only way I win is if I have an army that massively larger, and I land good storms. Otherwise I'll lose to a smaller a-move army. At least in PvT, PvP is really straight forward, and PvZ is still my best matchup, unless they out-macro me by a lot, or god forbid build Lurker/Corrupter/overseer, that kills me nearly every time I face it.
Lastly, this isn't so much a play question, just something really weird that happened and confused the crap out of me. I was playing earlier, and facing gold/plat players, then out of no where faced a string of bronze players. It surprised me because I was winning about half my games, so I didn't think I dropped that bad. However these bronze players were insane. I'm talking 150+ apm, good harass, good micro, good macro, the games were harder than the play players I faced. I won the games, but they were some of the hardest I've played and I have no clue how that came out of a string of bronze players.
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Ok, I've never seen this strat before, but it obliterated me.
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6516212
I saw his drones coming at me when I scouted no drones at his base. I pulled all my drones to fight the ones he sent, and his killed every one of mine somehow. I figured since he lost the mining time pulling his drones all the way across the map, while I was mining, I'd have the advantage. Then he destroyed me. Even though I scouted it his drones still beat my probes, he droned up faster, teched faster, and built a bigger and stronger army. So... wtf?
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On March 06 2016 11:16 -HuShang- wrote:
He didn't open phoenix and wanted to be aggressive.
How does that answer my question? ><
I guess i'll ask more clearly : what makes you decide the composition to use between disruptor-blink and archon-charge-immos in PvZ
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On March 06 2016 20:45 ArtyK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 11:16 -HuShang- wrote:
He didn't open phoenix and wanted to be aggressive. How does that answer my question? >< I guess i'll ask more clearly : what makes you decide the composition to use between disruptor-blink and archon-charge-immos in PvZ
I did answer your question. He felt like it.
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On March 06 2016 16:14 Hyper1 wrote:Ok, I've never seen this strat before, but it obliterated me. http://ggtracker.com/matches/6516212I saw his drones coming at me when I scouted no drones at his base. I pulled all my drones to fight the ones he sent, and his killed every one of mine somehow. I figured since he lost the mining time pulling his drones all the way across the map, while I was mining, I'd have the advantage. Then he destroyed me. Even though I scouted it his drones still beat my probes, he droned up faster, teched faster, and built a bigger and stronger army. So... wtf?
I think we can both agree if you get a zealot you win.
If you scout the drones coming across the map then just full wall off and chrono a zealot. If you don't scout it in time, then cancel your natural if you made one and start the zealot and chrono it, also build an extra pylon beside it. If he focusses down the pylons, just let him but keep threatening to attack with probes(dont actually commit to a fight. poking is okay though). Also keep making probes during this time. You had 300 minerals in that game, if you just bought time you could have had 6 more probes.
Tldr; spend all of your money before fighting
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On March 07 2016 00:52 -HuShang- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 20:45 ArtyK wrote:On March 06 2016 11:16 -HuShang- wrote:
He didn't open phoenix and wanted to be aggressive. How does that answer my question? >< I guess i'll ask more clearly : what makes you decide the composition to use between disruptor-blink and archon-charge-immos in PvZ I did answer your question. He felt like it.
In general pro players tend to stick to one style, because they cant be equally as good with 2, so i'm surprised he would just do it because he felt like it ><
In the current meta it seems that archon-charge-immo is clearly the preferred choice, so i hoped for a better explanation as to why he chose to do that in one game. Thx anyway
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On March 06 2016 06:05 ArtyK wrote:
Hey guys!
Lately PvZ has been a lot about stargate openings into double robo archon-chargelot-immortal to counter lurkers, a good example of this being Neeb vs Hydra the other day in Katowice.
Yet in one of his games Neeb went for disruptor blink, and i couldn't figure out why considering Hydra was still going for the same composition.
It was on lerilak, a very open map with lots of room to engage with an archon-charge-immo army, just like central protocol where Neeb actually used the latter, so i don't think it's map related (maybe spawn related?).
He also opened without stargate, adept speed + dts, which means he already had the twilight for charge+templar archive, but he went for double robo disruptor instead
I'm really confused on what makes you decide wether or not to go for one or the other
Any insights?
Actually, Lerilak is the perfect map for Disruptor Blink comps for a couple reasons. First off, it's very easy to bounce between the fourth, natural, third, and main of your opponent with your Stalkers. Second, it's a very difficult map to win as Protoss in the late game. Disruptor Blink is a composition that is incredibly powerful if you can get enough Disruptors early enough, but tends to fizzle out once Ultras and Lurkers are out on the field. Disruptor Blink and the Archon-Chargelot-Immortal style are the two standards these days, so I think that Neeb simply thought that the map was good for the comp, or he simply felt it was necessary to switch it up in a Bo5.
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On March 07 2016 04:06 Nuclease wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 06:05 ArtyK wrote:
Hey guys!
Lately PvZ has been a lot about stargate openings into double robo archon-chargelot-immortal to counter lurkers, a good example of this being Neeb vs Hydra the other day in Katowice.
Yet in one of his games Neeb went for disruptor blink, and i couldn't figure out why considering Hydra was still going for the same composition.
It was on lerilak, a very open map with lots of room to engage with an archon-charge-immo army, just like central protocol where Neeb actually used the latter, so i don't think it's map related (maybe spawn related?).
He also opened without stargate, adept speed + dts, which means he already had the twilight for charge+templar archive, but he went for double robo disruptor instead
I'm really confused on what makes you decide wether or not to go for one or the other
Any insights? Actually, Lerilak is the perfect map for Disruptor Blink comps for a couple reasons. First off, it's very easy to bounce between the fourth, natural, third, and main of your opponent with your Stalkers. Second, it's a very difficult map to win as Protoss in the late game. Disruptor Blink is a composition that is incredibly powerful if you can get enough Disruptors early enough, but tends to fizzle out once Ultras and Lurkers are out on the field. Disruptor Blink and the Archon-Chargelot-Immortal style are the two standards these days, so I think that Neeb simply thought that the map was good for the comp, or he simply felt it was necessary to switch it up in a Bo5.
Alright thx!
But now i'm wondering why he didn't do that on protocol considering he got horizontal spawns and could literally blink in and out of the main of hydra. Although this time he opened stargate and had phoenixes to lift up the lurkers so disruptors aren't as useful i guess
Seems kinda risky still to blink like that and leave your disruptors exposed, but neeb didn't care he just went for the win ^^
I don't know about that switch thing in bo5 though. With the opening he did he could have easily gone to archon-charge-immo and win that way.
Both stalkers and disruptors become utterly useless in late game when cracklings/ultras comes into play so might as well start with a comp that stays viable.
It probably comes down to micro and the fact that he was confident he could end the game with blink/disruptor while the alternative is basically a-move
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Saw Gungfubanda beat MaNa quite convincingly with airtoss today on MaNa's stream. He first pushed out with immortals void rays and some gateway units, killed the 4th, and then defeated MaNa's gateway based army with carriers. Gungfubanda and MaNa not exactly being bad players, I wonder how viable that style is and what would a build order for it look like.
Any ideas ?
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Help please! PvZ.
http://sc2replaystats.com/replay/activeArmy/2542086
Nexus first into 4 adept. Goal is 2 Robo Immortal, Chargelot, Archon. Took a third a little bit before 4 minutes, push out to contest Zerg 4th after I make my own. I engage near max. Army gets rolled over by equal upgrade Roach/Hydra with a ling/bling flank. Big issues are Immortals attacking lings. Couple Archons were attacked some Spines. Chargelots melted to Hydra count.
On the surface, I thought my army would roll over his completely. Am I overmaking Zealots? Is the answer there just to not engage and wait for siege weaponry since he had Spines up already? Did I just not arc it properly? I never know when to take encounter PvZ.
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On March 10 2016 08:04 Supah wrote:Help please! PvZ. http://sc2replaystats.com/replay/activeArmy/2542086Nexus first into 4 adept. Goal is 2 Robo Immortal, Chargelot, Archon. Took a third a little bit before 4 minutes, push out to contest Zerg 4th after I make my own. I engage near max. Army gets rolled over by equal upgrade Roach/Hydra with a ling/bling flank. Big issues are Immortals attacking lings. Couple Archons were attacked some Spines. Chargelots melted to Hydra count. On the surface, I thought my army would roll over his completely. Am I overmaking Zealots? Is the answer there just to not engage and wait for siege weaponry since he had Spines up already? Did I just not arc it properly? I never know when to take encounter PvZ.
He had bannelings. You should be careful not to let too many zealots get hit by them. Also when you are near maxed out, you need to consider a little bit of AoE, either disruptor or ht (2 or 3 should be more than enough) looking for the money shot /storm to soften the hydras. Having a prism nearby for instant warp or to make zealot runby is pretty good too, the latter is even more likely to force him into making errors.
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EPT
