EPTOn February 13 2016 00:51 ecnahc wrote:
when do i forge in pvp?
when do i forge in pvp?
~after 3-d
The LotV Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 20
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TedBurtle
Belarus201 Posts
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habermas
United Kingdom304 Posts
It seems to be some new meta thing (or maybe just my luck) that I keep getting dropped with 3+ DTs and getting my Nexuses and tech sniped by opponents who play mostly defensively. This happened in 3 out of 4 of my recent PvP's and I lost all of them. The first time I was pretty much unprepared and just lost both my Nexuses and robo followed by losing the game shortly after. In the second game I got my forge a bit earlier and put a cannon in each of my mineral lines thinking that it would help, but 3 DT's easily out-DPS a single cannon and I still lost a Nexus and some probes. (Now this sounds good in theory, when you also get a pylon cannon, but if my mothership is at my 3rd and they drop at my 1st / natural, they destroy the cannon and there is no detection by the time MSC gets there). In the third game I thought that it's stupid as it's not something I've ever seen in pro games, so maybe I need to apply more pressure, so the opponent doesn't have a chance to tech to DTs. That ended up even worse as while my army was on the other side of the map they just did a massive DT drop and pretty much wiped out my main while hiding behind pylon cannons to prevent me from engaging. Obviously making more than 1 cannon per mineral line doesn't seam like a reasonable solution. How do I deal with it? | ||
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-HuShang-
Canada393 Posts
On February 13 2016 08:57 habermas wrote: How do I deal with mid / late game DT drops in PvP? Obviously making more than 1 cannon per mineral line doesn't seam like a reasonable solution. How do I deal with it? Make more than one cannon x'D. That or, be a god and have your probes surround the cannon before the dts are dropped so they cant target it down. If you see dt's I like to make an extra obs that patrols between my natural and main or sits outside where the warp prism is likely to arrive. That way if all hell breaks loose you can easily grab it and move it where it needs to be. But yeah, basically 2+ cannons if they're going dt or at least an obs + units. DT's are just really good pvp units tbh.. you should probably get them every game. | ||
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Bananane
Germany4 Posts
How do i deal with this kind of pushs on Ulrena? I tried everything, but nothing seems to work. In the replay you can see, that an Oracle would have helped me. But many Terrans who do this startegy build a turret(he even scouted my sg), so imo an oracle dooesn't help normally and is wasted resouces. The robo was useless in this situation as well, but i don't know if i can skip it because of mines... I tried to stay on one base too, but then the contain is even harder and the terran just expands or flys his main to the natural. I hope someone can help me and give advice.. Next time i'll try 1 Base Tempest, but i'm not sure if it will be good. | ||
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On February 14 2016 05:59 Bananane wrote: http://ggtracker.com/matches/6472198 How do i deal with this kind of pushs on Ulrena? I tried everything, but nothing seems to work. In the replay you can see, that an Oracle would have helped me. But many Terrans who do this startegy build a turret(he even scouted my sg), so imo an oracle dooesn't help normally and is wasted resouces. The robo was useless in this situation as well, but i don't know if i can skip it because of mines... I tried to stay on one base too, but then the contain is even harder and the terran just expands or flys his main to the natural. I hope someone can help me and give advice.. Next time i'll try 1 Base Tempest, but i'm not sure if it will be good. I haven't actually seen many pros play against it as of late, but from my ladder experience Phoenixes are usually great vs 1 base Terran, but on Ulrena if they don't bother with mine drops and just push super fast it's very hard to get much use out of the Phoenixes. What I've had the most success with is going Oracle which sometimes gets damage, or sometimes is fended off, but either way you'll want one in case they go for Marine Mine drop pressure. Then afterwards go to 3 Gates and chrono out Void Rays. Try to delay your engagement as long as possible (basically when your Nexus is in danger of dying), then engage with pure Adept Void Ray, and focus the Liberators then Tanks with Void Rays. If they build some forward Turrets then try to position your Void Rays so you can snipe the Liberators and then quickly move them out of Turret fire if possible. | ||
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DanceSC
United States751 Posts
On February 13 2016 08:57 habermas wrote: How do I deal with mid / late game DT drops in PvP? It seems to be some new meta thing (or maybe just my luck) that I keep getting dropped with 3+ DTs and getting my Nexuses and tech sniped by opponents who play mostly defensively. This happened in 3 out of 4 of my recent PvP's and I lost all of them. The first time I was pretty much unprepared and just lost both my Nexuses and robo followed by losing the game shortly after. In the second game I got my forge a bit earlier and put a cannon in each of my mineral lines thinking that it would help, but 3 DT's easily out-DPS a single cannon and I still lost a Nexus and some probes. (Now this sounds good in theory, when you also get a pylon cannon, but if my mothership is at my 3rd and they drop at my 1st / natural, they destroy the cannon and there is no detection by the time MSC gets there). In the third game I thought that it's stupid as it's not something I've ever seen in pro games, so maybe I need to apply more pressure, so the opponent doesn't have a chance to tech to DTs. That ended up even worse as while my army was on the other side of the map they just did a massive DT drop and pretty much wiped out my main while hiding behind pylon cannons to prevent me from engaging. Obviously making more than 1 cannon per mineral line doesn't seam like a reasonable solution. How do I deal with it? You will need to put your forge down anyway for weapon upgrades, when that time comes you put a cannon or two in each base, and warp in a single dark templar your self if you are worried or see it coming. It is very common in high level / pro games, and if the damage that you take for not having an extra cannon far exceeds the cost of that second cannon, then I think it is worth the investment  | ||
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Hyper1
158 Posts
Halp please? I just lost to a bronze terran. I tried harassing, but he had a wall up faster than I could get my adepts out, and he had missile turrets to push away my oracle harass. I defended the double liberator harass well I though, only losing 8 probes to it. I know I'm not supposed to fight in liberator zones, but when he sieges up on my ramp and just hits me with tanks behind his liberators, I figured fighting in liberation zone was better than losing my third. I build HT to kill the ground army, and after seeing so many liberators started making tempest. So another example of having the lead in pretty much every area... Larger army, better income, equal upgrades, both on T3... and still lose to a bronze player like I hadn't even built an army to begin with. Are you guys sure perfect army comp isn't the only thing that really matters? Do I have to build every building and tech into every unit just to stand a chance against even bronze level terran to make sure I can counter whatever random units they feel like building, otherwise it's just a loss? I know I pooled up some minerals at one point, but that can't cause protoss to just outright lose the game against any terran. | ||
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ThreeLilpigs
14 Posts
although i won this game it was still a bit sloppy on my part. i need some help on where to improve how to macro/ micro better, tips on my build order, what i did right or wrong. because i wanna get better =) thanks. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6325 Posts
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BretZ
United States1510 Posts
edit: apparently half-raging in TL is good luck cuz I won the past 2 PvZs in a row | ||
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Hyper1
158 Posts
On February 15 2016 03:59 BretZ wrote: what do you even do in PvZ? Nothing I open with works against ling floods or mutas. Literally nothing edit: apparently half-raging in TL is good luck cuz I won the past 2 PvZs in a row Currently PvZ is my best match up. I open rallying my first probe to my ramp to drop a pylon then scout with it. I go nexus first unless I scout a really early pool. If I do scout a pool, I drop a forge and another pylon to completely wall off, otherwise I go nexus, gateway, assimilator, and wall off with a zealot. Get cyber and pump out an adept then sentry to FF the ramp if need be. After than I drop robo/twilight council, make a observer or 2 and scout him out. If it's safe I expand. My tech either way is templar archive. Building an army of archon/immortal/chargelot. That build works out pretty well for me. The archon and zealots eat lings, zealots take damage while the archon immortals kill roaches/ravengers/hydra/lurkers. If he switches to muta's, running into my archons will ruin his day. Even late game it does well again ultra's. I'm sure there's better builds out there, and a more correct answer, but I've had luck with this. | ||
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On February 15 2016 03:59 BretZ wrote: what do you even do in PvZ? Nothing I open with works against ling floods or mutas. Literally nothing edit: apparently half-raging in TL is good luck cuz I won the past 2 PvZs in a row Just open Phoenix (fast 3rd -> 2 Stargate, or 1 Stargate -> 3rd, depending on how greedy you want to be on each map), then go into Immortal Chargelot Archon. Chargelot Archon will make high Ling numbers melt, and the Phoenixes will usually make them not even bother going for Mutalisks (if they do, you can usually just kill them with a Chargelot Archon Immortal push, if not just crank out more Phoenixes). | ||
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brmr2k
9 Posts
On February 15 2016 03:45 RvB wrote: Is there a custom game or something to practise stalker/disruptor control? I basically lose all my PvP's because my control is aweful. For simple micro-setups i use "lotv unit tester" in arcade. if you are looking for more advanced approach, have a look at SALT and its reload-option: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/415155-build-order-and-practice-tool-salt-v2 | ||
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TedBurtle
Belarus201 Posts
On February 15 2016 01:31 Hyper1 wrote: http://ggtracker.com/matches/6473835 Halp please? I just lost to a bronze terran. I tried harassing, but he had a wall up faster than I could get my adepts out, and he had missile turrets to push away my oracle harass. I defended the double liberator harass well I though, only losing 8 probes to it. I know I'm not supposed to fight in liberator zones, but when he sieges up on my ramp and just hits me with tanks behind his liberators, I figured fighting in liberation zone was better than losing my third. I build HT to kill the ground army, and after seeing so many liberators started making tempest. So another example of having the lead in pretty much every area... Larger army, better income, equal upgrades, both on T3... and still lose to a bronze player like I hadn't even built an army to begin with. Are you guys sure perfect army comp isn't the only thing that really matters? Do I have to build every building and tech into every unit just to stand a chance against even bronze level terran to make sure I can counter whatever random units they feel like building, otherwise it's just a loss? I know I pooled up some minerals at one point, but that can't cause protoss to just outright lose the game against any terran. In your case, its more about core mechanics of the game. For example 5:45 , when liberator came to your base, you got 1500 minerals and 500 gas. Transfer this numbers to units, and you have 10 stalkers. So my advice is learn control groups, and spend minerals faster. Play defensive, because before you get to at least ~100 apm you won't be able to efficient harras. Because for every worker you kill , there is 2 workers and 3 units, that u not making by yourself. | ||
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Hyper1
158 Posts
Hey, what do you guys think of this build? It's actually worked pretty well for me so far. I only use it in PvT, and I don't have the timings down just yet. I drop to harass planning to expand behind it, but depending on how well my drop goes, I sometimes just keep warping in to finish it right there. I haven't gotten a chance to try yet, but I've considered going proxy robo/gateway on a 4 player map. But what do you guys think? Am I just getting lucky, or is it not too bad? | ||
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rewtamus
United States327 Posts
On February 16 2016 15:27 Hyper1 wrote: http://ggtracker.com/matches/6478037 Hey, what do you guys think of this build? It's actually worked pretty well for me so far. I only use it in PvT, and I don't have the timings down just yet. I drop to harass planning to expand behind it, but depending on how well my drop goes, I sometimes just keep warping in to finish it right there. I haven't gotten a chance to try yet, but I've considered going proxy robo/gateway on a 4 player map. But what do you guys think? Am I just getting lucky, or is it not too bad? I think what you're trying to do is really bad(too many workers for 1 base - why not make 2), not enough economy to support the production you have. You can do what you are trying to do while getting another base. You dropped onto opponent at ~4:40, There is a PvT timing attack with +1 & Glaives upgrade that hits at 5:00(with enough economy to not make it an all-in, you can take a 3rd after you attack and transition into +2 & blink). Try this: 14 Pylon 16 Gateway 16 Assimilator 19 Nexus 20 Cybernetics 21 Assimilator 22 Pylon @100% Cybernetics: warpgate MSC Adept ~27 Pylon in front of natural ~29 Robo ~32 Forge ~33 Twilight +1 attack(chrono) @100 Robo: Warp Prism Glaives(chrono) ~43 Gateways x3 ~46 Pylon x2 Observer ~54 Pylon Gas at natural x2 warp in 4 adepts +2 atk / blink Here is a replay of State doing it on the Korea GM ladder: http://ggtracker.com/matches/6480199 Take care | ||
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Hyper1
158 Posts
On February 17 2016 22:39 rewtamus wrote: I think what you're trying to do is really bad(too many workers for 1 base - why not make 2), not enough economy to support the production you have. You can do what you are trying to do while getting another base. You dropped onto opponent at ~4:40, There is a PvT timing attack with +1 & Glaives upgrade that hits at 5:00(with enough economy to not make it an all-in, you can take a 3rd after you attack and transition into +2 & blink). Try this: Here is a replay of State doing it on the Korea GM ladder: http://ggtracker.com/matches/6480199 Take care Yeah but that's state. I know, a lot of people compare us and say I'm just as good, but he's actually a little better than me... Lol | ||
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rewtamus
United States327 Posts
Look, you're obviously not following a build-order correctly, so I'm giving you one that will help you learn & be able to practice whats important. | ||
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Magnifico
1958 Posts
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Hyper1
158 Posts
On February 18 2016 07:14 rewtamus wrote: State said it's one of the easiest builds to pull off. Look, you're obviously not following a build-order correctly, so I'm giving you one that will help you learn & be able to practice whats important. It was supposed to be a joke, smile  | ||
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