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On October 07 2017 04:12 Damien wrote:
I have a question about macro: how can you guys know when is the right choice to expand the third or play 2 bases only?
Do you have some text about that kind of choices? I have so many questions.
Ty!
This is extremely dependent on what you are trying to accomplish and how you wish to play the game. For instance do I want to 2 base all in or take the game into late game? Is my opponent All-inning me or is he gearing up to take a 3rd??
These are 2 basic questions that will allow you to decide to take a 3rd or not.
There are more complicated and in-depth analysis you could do but mostly it comes down to the build you want to do and what you have to do to stay safe when your opponent is deciding to go for a timing / cheese / all-in against you.
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On October 09 2017 01:29 Jidoja1 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2017 04:12 Damien wrote:
I have a question about macro: how can you guys know when is the right choice to expand the third or play 2 bases only?
Do you have some text about that kind of choices? I have so many questions.
Ty!
This is extremely dependent on what you are trying to accomplish and how you wish to play the game. For instance do I want to 2 base all in or take the game into late game? Is my opponent All-inning me or is he gearing up to take a 3rd?? These are 2 basic questions that will allow you to decide to take a 3rd or not. There are more complicated and in-depth analysis you could do but mostly it comes down to the build you want to do and what you have to do to stay safe when your opponent is deciding to go for a timing / cheese / all-in against you.
ty Jidoja!
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Hey guys, how can I beat that? I did play tons of games against that guy, but that composition is impossible. I can kill his entire army two or three times, but I ever lost in the end. I just win once.
http://ggtracker.com/matches/7208796
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Hey guys, how can I beat that? I did play tons of games against that guy, but that composition is impossible. I can kill his entire army two or three times, but I ever lost in the end. I just win once.
I assume you play a 1rax -> expo build.
Good Macro.
What is good Macro: It is eco-micro :D
50 workers produced @ 6:00 minutes <-- produced means if 20 die, you should have 30 workers @6:00
Production buildings are producing !constantly! (units/workers/upgrades)
1Depot !continuously! contstructing with 1base production ~3 production buildings (excluding CC/OC)
2Depot !continuously! contstructing with 2base production ~5buildings
3Depot !continuously! contstructing with 3base production ~8-11 buildings
throwing MULES on the rich mineral patches and only 1 MULE @ 1patch <-- see PiG daily #51
throwing MULEs as soon as possible
once your 2nd OC finishes throw MULES only @your 2nd base (main lasts longer->you have a longer 2/3base eco)
MULEs always thrown @ your newest base
keep your money LOW
build extra raxx and CC when you start floating minerals, 1k mins -> 3raxx and a CC for example
when the Main starts to mine out build your 4th base
when the Natural starts to mine out build your 5th base
Good Scv management means:
watch the saturation (should be 16-18 workers on minerals and 6 on gas), your second base only needs gas when SCV #18 starts mining.The time it takes to finish the 2 refinieries and have 22(16 SCVs ming gas / 6 SCVs mining minerals) workers is then perfectly timed. (assuming constant worker production)
When you got 22 SCVs (16minerals+6gas) @ both bases rally the workers to each individual base till you got 24 SCVs mining minerals or your 3rd CC finishes. Then transfer your excess SCVs from 1st/2nd base to the 3rd base.
If you do this and stick to your composition and you attack(not waste=retreat when you see you can´t kill his army) whenever an infantry attack upgrade finishes, you are in good shape.
Also against his comp: Marines, Mines with fast burrow, and Vikings/few Libs (Ghosts are nice too but then your resources are spread a bit thin):
Vikings focusfire the Carriers
These are my personal thoughts, im only Dia 2 MMR, so feel free to disqualify this post.
I always wanted to find the solution to macro better and HOW to do that, and these are my personal answers to the famed advice "macro better"
Have fun practicing
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On October 20 2017 08:34 Damien wrote:Hey guys, how can I beat that? I did play tons of games against that guy, but that composition is impossible. I can kill his entire army two or three times, but I ever lost in the end. I just win once. http://ggtracker.com/matches/7208796
I'm just gonna focus on the first 10 minutes cause that's where most people lose and it's more important than the rest.
The most obvious mistake here is that you literally haven't seen his side of the map once in those 10 minutes, not even a scan.
A reaper scout would prevent you from always having to blind ebay so early, and sending scouting marines or scanning is super important to see his transition.
He went carriers but he could have gone oracles + adepts or phoenix adept...
Even if you knew what he was gonna do your response is not optimal and you missed a huge timing to kill him after his oracles died :
When combat shield finishes you have +1/+1 vs 0/0, and you could have been on his side of the map with ~40 marines 5 mines 7 vikings and one lib vs 5 carriers 1 oracle 1 phoenix 1 msc
You had 157 supply vs 114.
Now, the opening build. Because you don't scout at all you put your CC on the high ground which slows your eco down, and your 2nd depot is too early (if gas first, go 1 reaper or 1 marine then reactor then factory and then 2nd depot)
You made too many vikings. Sure he went carriers and that's great, but it means you couldn't be agressive before that. Not to mention how useless they are if he decides to go phoenix adept. Plus if you don't do damage after your first and only stim is over your army is basically dead.
Imagine the situation above except the vikings are 7 medivacs. What are 40 0/0 interceptors and overcharges going to do vs 40 1/1 combat shield marines healed by 7 medivacs?
Vikings should have been made only after the first 7+ medivacs and seeing that he was indeed going carriers.
Mines are also great but you want to send them forward and burrow as close to the carriers as possible cause otherwise they destroy your entire army focusing the interceptors.
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On October 20 2017 15:40 HerrPfotig wrote:Show nested quote +Hey guys, how can I beat that? I did play tons of games against that guy, but that composition is impossible. I can kill his entire army two or three times, but I ever lost in the end. I just win once. I assume you play a 1rax -> expo build. Good Macro. What is good Macro: It is eco-micro :D 50 workers produced @ 6:00 minutes <-- produced means if 20 die, you should have 30 workers @6:00 Production buildings are producing !constantly! (units/workers/upgrades) 1Depot !continuously! contstructing with 1base production ~3 production buildings (excluding CC/OC) 2Depot !continuously! contstructing with 2base production ~5buildings 3Depot !continuously! contstructing with 3base production ~8-11 buildings throwing MULES on the rich mineral patches and only 1 MULE @ 1patch <-- see PiG daily #51throwing MULEs as soon as possible once your 2nd OC finishes throw MULES only @your 2nd base (main lasts longer->you have a longer 2/3base eco) MULEs always thrown @ your newest base keep your money LOW build extra raxx and CC when you start floating minerals, 1k mins -> 3raxx and a CC for example when the Main starts to mine out build your 4th base when the Natural starts to mine out build your 5th base Good Scv management means: watch the saturation (should be 16-18 workers on minerals and 6 on gas), your second base only needs gas when SCV #18 starts mining.The time it takes to finish the 2 refinieries and have 22(16 SCVs ming gas / 6 SCVs mining minerals) workers is then perfectly timed. (assuming constant worker production) When you got 22 SCVs (16minerals+6gas) @ both bases rally the workers to each individual base till you got 24 SCVs mining minerals or your 3rd CC finishes. Then transfer your excess SCVs from 1st/2nd base to the 3rd base. If you do this and stick to your composition and you attack(not waste=retreat when you see you can´t kill his army) whenever an infantry attack upgrade finishes, you are in good shape. Also against his comp: Marines, Mines with fast burrow, and Vikings/few Libs (Ghosts are nice too but then your resources are spread a bit thin): Vikings focusfire the Carriers These are my personal thoughts, im only Dia 2 MMR, so feel free to disqualify this post. I always wanted to find the solution to macro better and HOW to do that, and these are my personal answers to the famed advice "macro better" Have fun practicing
You can also practice your macro by hitting and perfecting your builds timing to the best of your ability. Example: With the TvZ 4 hellion 2 banshee build you can hit a timing with a bunch of bio, 4 hellbats and 2 banshees with stim +1 and combat shields by 7:40 and start +2 +2 and go into your 7-2-1.
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On October 20 2017 15:40 HerrPfotig wrote:Show nested quote +Hey guys, how can I beat that? I did play tons of games against that guy, but that composition is impossible. I can kill his entire army two or three times, but I ever lost in the end. I just win once. I assume you play a 1rax -> expo build. Good Macro. What is good Macro: It is eco-micro :D 50 workers produced @ 6:00 minutes <-- produced means if 20 die, you should have 30 workers @6:00 Production buildings are producing !constantly! (units/workers/upgrades) 1Depot !continuously! contstructing with 1base production ~3 production buildings (excluding CC/OC) 2Depot !continuously! contstructing with 2base production ~5buildings 3Depot !continuously! contstructing with 3base production ~8-11 buildings throwing MULES on the rich mineral patches and only 1 MULE @ 1patch <-- see PiG daily #51throwing MULEs as soon as possible once your 2nd OC finishes throw MULES only @your 2nd base (main lasts longer->you have a longer 2/3base eco) MULEs always thrown @ your newest base keep your money LOW build extra raxx and CC when you start floating minerals, 1k mins -> 3raxx and a CC for example when the Main starts to mine out build your 4th base when the Natural starts to mine out build your 5th base Good Scv management means: watch the saturation (should be 16-18 workers on minerals and 6 on gas), your second base only needs gas when SCV #18 starts mining.The time it takes to finish the 2 refinieries and have 22(16 SCVs ming gas / 6 SCVs mining minerals) workers is then perfectly timed. (assuming constant worker production) When you got 22 SCVs (16minerals+6gas) @ both bases rally the workers to each individual base till you got 24 SCVs mining minerals or your 3rd CC finishes. Then transfer your excess SCVs from 1st/2nd base to the 3rd base. If you do this and stick to your composition and you attack(not waste=retreat when you see you can´t kill his army) whenever an infantry attack upgrade finishes, you are in good shape. Also against his comp: Marines, Mines with fast burrow, and Vikings/few Libs (Ghosts are nice too but then your resources are spread a bit thin): Vikings focusfire the Carriers These are my personal thoughts, im only Dia 2 MMR, so feel free to disqualify this post. I always wanted to find the solution to macro better and HOW to do that, and these are my personal answers to the famed advice "macro better" Have fun practicing
"Good Scv management means:
watch the saturation (should be 16-18 workers on minerals and 6 on gas), your second base only needs gas when SCV #18 starts mining.The time it takes to finish the 2 refinieries and have 22(16 SCVs ming gas / 6 SCVs mining minerals) workers is then perfectly timed. (assuming constant worker production) "
The #18 of the second base, right?
Ty for your tips. I can use some of them. Ty for help me and for your timing doing that post. : )
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On October 20 2017 22:42 ArtyK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2017 08:34 Damien wrote:Hey guys, how can I beat that? I did play tons of games against that guy, but that composition is impossible. I can kill his entire army two or three times, but I ever lost in the end. I just win once. http://ggtracker.com/matches/7208796 I'm just gonna focus on the first 10 minutes cause that's where most people lose and it's more important than the rest. The most obvious mistake here is that you literally haven't seen his side of the map once in those 10 minutes, not even a scan. A reaper scout would prevent you from always having to blind ebay so early, and sending scouting marines or scanning is super important to see his transition. He went carriers but he could have gone oracles + adepts or phoenix adept... Even if you knew what he was gonna do your response is not optimal and you missed a huge timing to kill him after his oracles died : When combat shield finishes you have +1/+1 vs 0/0, and you could have been on his side of the map with ~40 marines 5 mines 7 vikings and one lib vs 5 carriers 1 oracle 1 phoenix 1 msc You had 157 supply vs 114. Now, the opening build. Because you don't scout at all you put your CC on the high ground which slows your eco down, and your 2nd depot is too early (if gas first, go 1 reaper or 1 marine then reactor then factory and then 2nd depot) You made too many vikings. Sure he went carriers and that's great, but it means you couldn't be agressive before that. Not to mention how useless they are if he decides to go phoenix adept. Plus if you don't do damage after your first and only stim is over your army is basically dead. Imagine the situation above except the vikings are 7 medivacs. What are 40 0/0 interceptors and overcharges going to do vs 40 1/1 combat shield marines healed by 7 medivacs? Vikings should have been made only after the first 7+ medivacs and seeing that he was indeed going carriers. Mines are also great but you want to send them forward and burrow as close to the carriers as possible cause otherwise they destroy your entire army focusing the interceptors.
"I'm just gonna focus on the first 10 minutes cause that's where most people lose and it's more important than the rest.
The most obvious mistake here is that you literally haven't seen his side of the map once in those 10 minutes, not even a scan."
I knew exactly what he was doing because I played this guy a lot. He always make the same thing over and over again.
"When combat shield finishes you have +1/+1 vs 0/0, and you could have been on his side of the map with ~40 marines 5 mines 7 vikings and one lib vs 5 carriers 1 oracle 1 phoenix 1 msc
You had 157 supply vs 114."
I've already tried that. He just keep on doing that oracle's traps, pylons and canons everywhere. If I try to kill him on his base, he hold and send his entire army over my production buildings. I do that composition because I already won once.
I will try that composition you said when I match him again, so i can show you the replay.
"Now, the opening build. Because you don't scout at all you put your CC on the high ground which slows your eco down, and your 2nd depot is too early (if gas first, go 1 reaper or 1 marine then reactor then factory and then 2nd depot)"
I did that because he used to take my second gas and rush pylons if I try to expand on the natural.
"You made too many vikings. Sure he went carriers and that's great, but it means you couldn't be agressive before that. Not to mention how useless they are if he decides to go phoenix adept. Plus if you don't do damage after your first and only stim is over your army is basically dead."
I made them because I was live on twitch and a guy said to try that. I used to make liberators instead.
"Vikings should have been made only after the first 7+ medivacs and seeing that he was indeed going carriers.
Mines are also great but you want to send them forward and burrow as close to the carriers as possible cause otherwise they destroy your entire army focusing the interceptors"
That is a huge tip. I will try this for sure.
I used to make mines, but it always kills my entire army. Do you think that I can kill him with 1-1 marines supported by lots of medivacs? Even against pylons?
Ty ArtyK. I am losing for this guy over and over again. Just can't kill him again, but now I know what to try.
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On October 20 2017 22:45 Ryu3600 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2017 15:40 HerrPfotig wrote:Hey guys, how can I beat that? I did play tons of games against that guy, but that composition is impossible. I can kill his entire army two or three times, but I ever lost in the end. I just win once. I assume you play a 1rax -> expo build. Good Macro. What is good Macro: It is eco-micro :D 50 workers produced @ 6:00 minutes <-- produced means if 20 die, you should have 30 workers @6:00 Production buildings are producing !constantly! (units/workers/upgrades) 1Depot !continuously! contstructing with 1base production ~3 production buildings (excluding CC/OC) 2Depot !continuously! contstructing with 2base production ~5buildings 3Depot !continuously! contstructing with 3base production ~8-11 buildings throwing MULES on the rich mineral patches and only 1 MULE @ 1patch <-- see PiG daily #51throwing MULEs as soon as possible once your 2nd OC finishes throw MULES only @your 2nd base (main lasts longer->you have a longer 2/3base eco) MULEs always thrown @ your newest base keep your money LOW build extra raxx and CC when you start floating minerals, 1k mins -> 3raxx and a CC for example when the Main starts to mine out build your 4th base when the Natural starts to mine out build your 5th base Good Scv management means: watch the saturation (should be 16-18 workers on minerals and 6 on gas), your second base only needs gas when SCV #18 starts mining.The time it takes to finish the 2 refinieries and have 22(16 SCVs ming gas / 6 SCVs mining minerals) workers is then perfectly timed. (assuming constant worker production) When you got 22 SCVs (16minerals+6gas) @ both bases rally the workers to each individual base till you got 24 SCVs mining minerals or your 3rd CC finishes. Then transfer your excess SCVs from 1st/2nd base to the 3rd base. If you do this and stick to your composition and you attack(not waste=retreat when you see you can´t kill his army) whenever an infantry attack upgrade finishes, you are in good shape. Also against his comp: Marines, Mines with fast burrow, and Vikings/few Libs (Ghosts are nice too but then your resources are spread a bit thin): Vikings focusfire the Carriers These are my personal thoughts, im only Dia 2 MMR, so feel free to disqualify this post. I always wanted to find the solution to macro better and HOW to do that, and these are my personal answers to the famed advice "macro better" Have fun practicing You can also practice your macro by hitting and perfecting your builds timing to the best of your ability. Example: With the TvZ 4 hellion 2 banshee build you can hit a timing with a bunch of bio, 4 hellbats and 2 banshees with stim +1 and combat shields by 7:40 and start +2 +2 and go into your 7-2-1.
Cool! I will try that. Sounds good too. I used to be master 1 on hots, almost gm, but when lotv come out, I was dropped a lot.
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Terran should have 66-72 workers total. In very very rare situations you may have 80 but that is stylistic or based off of your own judgment. The reason for this is because it is the most optimal way to saturate 3-4 bases, additionally, if you guys just follow a build you do to absolute perfection that too also contributes a large amount to your macro. Hitting a timing with the 2-1-1 at 4:39, as compared to a later timing like 5:01 is a huge difference. Even if both players spend their $ perfectly. I myself personally like to write as many of the current and best builds that I see pros using and I post them in the All Things Terran discord. I do not want to seem like a shameless person who is trying to advertise the chat but if you do want Terran builds whether it be TvT, TvP, TvZ I have both bio and mech builds (I do not do mech for protoss) If you do want to join the link for it is here: https://discord.gg/Jy74X5 Ping @Ryu im one of the mods and I will just post builds for you 
- Sorry if this seemed like shameless advertising
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On October 20 2017 23:11 Damien wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2017 22:42 ArtyK wrote:On October 20 2017 08:34 Damien wrote:Hey guys, how can I beat that? I did play tons of games against that guy, but that composition is impossible. I can kill his entire army two or three times, but I ever lost in the end. I just win once. http://ggtracker.com/matches/7208796 I'm just gonna focus on the first 10 minutes cause that's where most people lose and it's more important than the rest. The most obvious mistake here is that you literally haven't seen his side of the map once in those 10 minutes, not even a scan. A reaper scout would prevent you from always having to blind ebay so early, and sending scouting marines or scanning is super important to see his transition. He went carriers but he could have gone oracles + adepts or phoenix adept... Even if you knew what he was gonna do your response is not optimal and you missed a huge timing to kill him after his oracles died : When combat shield finishes you have +1/+1 vs 0/0, and you could have been on his side of the map with ~40 marines 5 mines 7 vikings and one lib vs 5 carriers 1 oracle 1 phoenix 1 msc You had 157 supply vs 114. Now, the opening build. Because you don't scout at all you put your CC on the high ground which slows your eco down, and your 2nd depot is too early (if gas first, go 1 reaper or 1 marine then reactor then factory and then 2nd depot) You made too many vikings. Sure he went carriers and that's great, but it means you couldn't be agressive before that. Not to mention how useless they are if he decides to go phoenix adept. Plus if you don't do damage after your first and only stim is over your army is basically dead. Imagine the situation above except the vikings are 7 medivacs. What are 40 0/0 interceptors and overcharges going to do vs 40 1/1 combat shield marines healed by 7 medivacs? Vikings should have been made only after the first 7+ medivacs and seeing that he was indeed going carriers. Mines are also great but you want to send them forward and burrow as close to the carriers as possible cause otherwise they destroy your entire army focusing the interceptors. "I'm just gonna focus on the first 10 minutes cause that's where most people lose and it's more important than the rest. The most obvious mistake here is that you literally haven't seen his side of the map once in those 10 minutes, not even a scan." I knew exactly what he was doing because I played this guy a lot. He always make the same thing over and over again. "When combat shield finishes you have +1/+1 vs 0/0, and you could have been on his side of the map with ~40 marines 5 mines 7 vikings and one lib vs 5 carriers 1 oracle 1 phoenix 1 msc You had 157 supply vs 114." I've already tried that. He just keep on doing that oracle's traps, pylons and canons everywhere. If I try to kill him on his base, he hold and send his entire army over my production buildings. I do that composition because I already won once. I will try that composition you said when I match him again, so i can show you the replay. "Now, the opening build. Because you don't scout at all you put your CC on the high ground which slows your eco down, and your 2nd depot is too early (if gas first, go 1 reaper or 1 marine then reactor then factory and then 2nd depot)" I did that because he used to take my second gas and rush pylons if I try to expand on the natural. "You made too many vikings. Sure he went carriers and that's great, but it means you couldn't be agressive before that. Not to mention how useless they are if he decides to go phoenix adept. Plus if you don't do damage after your first and only stim is over your army is basically dead." I made them because I was live on twitch and a guy said to try that. I used to make liberators instead. "Vikings should have been made only after the first 7+ medivacs and seeing that he was indeed going carriers. Mines are also great but you want to send them forward and burrow as close to the carriers as possible cause otherwise they destroy your entire army focusing the interceptors" That is a huge tip. I will try this for sure. I used to make mines, but it always kills my entire army. Do you think that I can kill him with 1-1 marines supported by lots of medivacs? Even against pylons? Ty ArtyK. I am losing for this guy over and over again. Just can't kill him again, but now I know what to try.
Yeah i guessed you were blind countering him but it still wasn't the best. And if he mindgames...
As for the gas you can just put an scv on hold position next to it whenever an enemy worker is close to it instead of disrupting your build. Vs pylon rush, if you scouted you could bunker and get a cyclone to defend.
Save scans when you see that many oracles, stim one marine ahead of your army when pushing (and another one everytime if it triggers a stasis) and scan his expansion before you start attacking.
Liberators are kinda like vikings in this case, good later but not immediatly, and incredibly expensive (and slow to build)
Do you seriously think 40 1/1 combat shield marines with medivacs lose to 40 0/0 interceptors? You should have won this game :p
edit : just tested it except i added 2 pylons overcharged and amoved into it, the marines won anyway. Focusing the carriers works better but in multiplayer you can't always if they micro back.
And that's without the extra mines or avoiding pylons :p
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On October 20 2017 23:40 ArtyK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2017 23:11 Damien wrote:On October 20 2017 22:42 ArtyK wrote:On October 20 2017 08:34 Damien wrote:Hey guys, how can I beat that? I did play tons of games against that guy, but that composition is impossible. I can kill his entire army two or three times, but I ever lost in the end. I just win once. http://ggtracker.com/matches/7208796 I'm just gonna focus on the first 10 minutes cause that's where most people lose and it's more important than the rest. The most obvious mistake here is that you literally haven't seen his side of the map once in those 10 minutes, not even a scan. A reaper scout would prevent you from always having to blind ebay so early, and sending scouting marines or scanning is super important to see his transition. He went carriers but he could have gone oracles + adepts or phoenix adept... Even if you knew what he was gonna do your response is not optimal and you missed a huge timing to kill him after his oracles died : When combat shield finishes you have +1/+1 vs 0/0, and you could have been on his side of the map with ~40 marines 5 mines 7 vikings and one lib vs 5 carriers 1 oracle 1 phoenix 1 msc You had 157 supply vs 114. Now, the opening build. Because you don't scout at all you put your CC on the high ground which slows your eco down, and your 2nd depot is too early (if gas first, go 1 reaper or 1 marine then reactor then factory and then 2nd depot) You made too many vikings. Sure he went carriers and that's great, but it means you couldn't be agressive before that. Not to mention how useless they are if he decides to go phoenix adept. Plus if you don't do damage after your first and only stim is over your army is basically dead. Imagine the situation above except the vikings are 7 medivacs. What are 40 0/0 interceptors and overcharges going to do vs 40 1/1 combat shield marines healed by 7 medivacs? Vikings should have been made only after the first 7+ medivacs and seeing that he was indeed going carriers. Mines are also great but you want to send them forward and burrow as close to the carriers as possible cause otherwise they destroy your entire army focusing the interceptors. "I'm just gonna focus on the first 10 minutes cause that's where most people lose and it's more important than the rest. The most obvious mistake here is that you literally haven't seen his side of the map once in those 10 minutes, not even a scan." I knew exactly what he was doing because I played this guy a lot. He always make the same thing over and over again. "When combat shield finishes you have +1/+1 vs 0/0, and you could have been on his side of the map with ~40 marines 5 mines 7 vikings and one lib vs 5 carriers 1 oracle 1 phoenix 1 msc You had 157 supply vs 114." I've already tried that. He just keep on doing that oracle's traps, pylons and canons everywhere. If I try to kill him on his base, he hold and send his entire army over my production buildings. I do that composition because I already won once. I will try that composition you said when I match him again, so i can show you the replay. "Now, the opening build. Because you don't scout at all you put your CC on the high ground which slows your eco down, and your 2nd depot is too early (if gas first, go 1 reaper or 1 marine then reactor then factory and then 2nd depot)" I did that because he used to take my second gas and rush pylons if I try to expand on the natural. "You made too many vikings. Sure he went carriers and that's great, but it means you couldn't be agressive before that. Not to mention how useless they are if he decides to go phoenix adept. Plus if you don't do damage after your first and only stim is over your army is basically dead." I made them because I was live on twitch and a guy said to try that. I used to make liberators instead. "Vikings should have been made only after the first 7+ medivacs and seeing that he was indeed going carriers. Mines are also great but you want to send them forward and burrow as close to the carriers as possible cause otherwise they destroy your entire army focusing the interceptors" That is a huge tip. I will try this for sure. I used to make mines, but it always kills my entire army. Do you think that I can kill him with 1-1 marines supported by lots of medivacs? Even against pylons? Ty ArtyK. I am losing for this guy over and over again. Just can't kill him again, but now I know what to try. Yeah i guessed you were blind countering him but it still wasn't the best. And if he mindgames... As for the gas you can just put an scv on hold position next to it whenever an enemy worker is close to it instead of disrupting your build. Vs pylon rush, if you scouted you could bunker and get a cyclone to defend. Save scans when you see that many oracles, stim one marine ahead of your army when pushing (and another one everytime if it triggers a stasis) and scan his expansion before you start attacking. Liberators are kinda like vikings in this case, good later but not immediatly, and incredibly expensive (and slow to build) Do you seriously think 40 1/1 combat shield marines with medivacs lose to 40 0/0 interceptors? You should have won this game :p edit : just tested it except i added 2 pylons overcharged and amoved into it, the marines won anyway. Focusing the carriers works better but in multiplayer you can't always if they micro back. And that's without the extra mines or avoiding pylons :p
I matched him again. 2 games. I will show you the replays. Sorry for my bitchery in the end. That guy is so bm, but he tought I had blocked him. I don't mind to lose, but I hate to lose for this guy. He has 30% against another races, 75% against terran.
http://ggtracker.com/matches/7209181
http://ggtracker.com/matches/7209182
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On October 21 2017 00:28 Damien wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2017 23:40 ArtyK wrote:On October 20 2017 23:11 Damien wrote:On October 20 2017 22:42 ArtyK wrote:On October 20 2017 08:34 Damien wrote:Hey guys, how can I beat that? I did play tons of games against that guy, but that composition is impossible. I can kill his entire army two or three times, but I ever lost in the end. I just win once. http://ggtracker.com/matches/7208796 I'm just gonna focus on the first 10 minutes cause that's where most people lose and it's more important than the rest. The most obvious mistake here is that you literally haven't seen his side of the map once in those 10 minutes, not even a scan. A reaper scout would prevent you from always having to blind ebay so early, and sending scouting marines or scanning is super important to see his transition. He went carriers but he could have gone oracles + adepts or phoenix adept... Even if you knew what he was gonna do your response is not optimal and you missed a huge timing to kill him after his oracles died : When combat shield finishes you have +1/+1 vs 0/0, and you could have been on his side of the map with ~40 marines 5 mines 7 vikings and one lib vs 5 carriers 1 oracle 1 phoenix 1 msc You had 157 supply vs 114. Now, the opening build. Because you don't scout at all you put your CC on the high ground which slows your eco down, and your 2nd depot is too early (if gas first, go 1 reaper or 1 marine then reactor then factory and then 2nd depot) You made too many vikings. Sure he went carriers and that's great, but it means you couldn't be agressive before that. Not to mention how useless they are if he decides to go phoenix adept. Plus if you don't do damage after your first and only stim is over your army is basically dead. Imagine the situation above except the vikings are 7 medivacs. What are 40 0/0 interceptors and overcharges going to do vs 40 1/1 combat shield marines healed by 7 medivacs? Vikings should have been made only after the first 7+ medivacs and seeing that he was indeed going carriers. Mines are also great but you want to send them forward and burrow as close to the carriers as possible cause otherwise they destroy your entire army focusing the interceptors. "I'm just gonna focus on the first 10 minutes cause that's where most people lose and it's more important than the rest. The most obvious mistake here is that you literally haven't seen his side of the map once in those 10 minutes, not even a scan." I knew exactly what he was doing because I played this guy a lot. He always make the same thing over and over again. "When combat shield finishes you have +1/+1 vs 0/0, and you could have been on his side of the map with ~40 marines 5 mines 7 vikings and one lib vs 5 carriers 1 oracle 1 phoenix 1 msc You had 157 supply vs 114." I've already tried that. He just keep on doing that oracle's traps, pylons and canons everywhere. If I try to kill him on his base, he hold and send his entire army over my production buildings. I do that composition because I already won once. I will try that composition you said when I match him again, so i can show you the replay. "Now, the opening build. Because you don't scout at all you put your CC on the high ground which slows your eco down, and your 2nd depot is too early (if gas first, go 1 reaper or 1 marine then reactor then factory and then 2nd depot)" I did that because he used to take my second gas and rush pylons if I try to expand on the natural. "You made too many vikings. Sure he went carriers and that's great, but it means you couldn't be agressive before that. Not to mention how useless they are if he decides to go phoenix adept. Plus if you don't do damage after your first and only stim is over your army is basically dead." I made them because I was live on twitch and a guy said to try that. I used to make liberators instead. "Vikings should have been made only after the first 7+ medivacs and seeing that he was indeed going carriers. Mines are also great but you want to send them forward and burrow as close to the carriers as possible cause otherwise they destroy your entire army focusing the interceptors" That is a huge tip. I will try this for sure. I used to make mines, but it always kills my entire army. Do you think that I can kill him with 1-1 marines supported by lots of medivacs? Even against pylons? Ty ArtyK. I am losing for this guy over and over again. Just can't kill him again, but now I know what to try. Yeah i guessed you were blind countering him but it still wasn't the best. And if he mindgames... As for the gas you can just put an scv on hold position next to it whenever an enemy worker is close to it instead of disrupting your build. Vs pylon rush, if you scouted you could bunker and get a cyclone to defend. Save scans when you see that many oracles, stim one marine ahead of your army when pushing (and another one everytime if it triggers a stasis) and scan his expansion before you start attacking. Liberators are kinda like vikings in this case, good later but not immediatly, and incredibly expensive (and slow to build) Do you seriously think 40 1/1 combat shield marines with medivacs lose to 40 0/0 interceptors? You should have won this game :p edit : just tested it except i added 2 pylons overcharged and amoved into it, the marines won anyway. Focusing the carriers works better but in multiplayer you can't always if they micro back. And that's without the extra mines or avoiding pylons :p I matched him again. 2 games. I will show you the replays. Sorry for my bitchery in the end. That guy is so bm, but he tought I had blocked him. I don't mind to lose, but I hate to lose for this guy. He have 30% agains another races, 75% against terran. http://ggtracker.com/matches/7209181http://ggtracker.com/matches/7209182
Is there only 2 players on NA?
You played this before reading my last post though right? Still blocking the gas and no bunker :>
Still no scout either so if you're gonna blind counter you don't have the right for your turret still to be building when the oracle arrives :p
So i'm ignoring abyssal cause you're dead in 5 minutes
On Aiur you didn't make a marine/reaper at least to deny the probe, and your CC was super late.
You need to learn the timing of when the oracle arrives cause your ebay is either too early or too late.
The cyclone wasn't necessary as he didn't pylon rush.
You're so scared you expand high ground again even though you have the bunker this time. And your whole army is in the main even though your turret is done. It should be between your main and natural, usually near the ramp.
And because you never scout you had no idea that this time well... he had colossi! :p
You think you're blind countering but you're overreacting due to lack of info and knowledge of timings. Even if he doesn't do damage you're putting yourself behind.
Make one viking first btw, then medivacs. And get a reactor for your factory after the first 2 mines
Those 2 games were worse early game than the one you first sent :p
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On October 21 2017 00:34 ArtyK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2017 00:28 Damien wrote:On October 20 2017 23:40 ArtyK wrote:On October 20 2017 23:11 Damien wrote:On October 20 2017 22:42 ArtyK wrote:On October 20 2017 08:34 Damien wrote:Hey guys, how can I beat that? I did play tons of games against that guy, but that composition is impossible. I can kill his entire army two or three times, but I ever lost in the end. I just win once. http://ggtracker.com/matches/7208796 I'm just gonna focus on the first 10 minutes cause that's where most people lose and it's more important than the rest. The most obvious mistake here is that you literally haven't seen his side of the map once in those 10 minutes, not even a scan. A reaper scout would prevent you from always having to blind ebay so early, and sending scouting marines or scanning is super important to see his transition. He went carriers but he could have gone oracles + adepts or phoenix adept... Even if you knew what he was gonna do your response is not optimal and you missed a huge timing to kill him after his oracles died : When combat shield finishes you have +1/+1 vs 0/0, and you could have been on his side of the map with ~40 marines 5 mines 7 vikings and one lib vs 5 carriers 1 oracle 1 phoenix 1 msc You had 157 supply vs 114. Now, the opening build. Because you don't scout at all you put your CC on the high ground which slows your eco down, and your 2nd depot is too early (if gas first, go 1 reaper or 1 marine then reactor then factory and then 2nd depot) You made too many vikings. Sure he went carriers and that's great, but it means you couldn't be agressive before that. Not to mention how useless they are if he decides to go phoenix adept. Plus if you don't do damage after your first and only stim is over your army is basically dead. Imagine the situation above except the vikings are 7 medivacs. What are 40 0/0 interceptors and overcharges going to do vs 40 1/1 combat shield marines healed by 7 medivacs? Vikings should have been made only after the first 7+ medivacs and seeing that he was indeed going carriers. Mines are also great but you want to send them forward and burrow as close to the carriers as possible cause otherwise they destroy your entire army focusing the interceptors. "I'm just gonna focus on the first 10 minutes cause that's where most people lose and it's more important than the rest. The most obvious mistake here is that you literally haven't seen his side of the map once in those 10 minutes, not even a scan." I knew exactly what he was doing because I played this guy a lot. He always make the same thing over and over again. "When combat shield finishes you have +1/+1 vs 0/0, and you could have been on his side of the map with ~40 marines 5 mines 7 vikings and one lib vs 5 carriers 1 oracle 1 phoenix 1 msc You had 157 supply vs 114." I've already tried that. He just keep on doing that oracle's traps, pylons and canons everywhere. If I try to kill him on his base, he hold and send his entire army over my production buildings. I do that composition because I already won once. I will try that composition you said when I match him again, so i can show you the replay. "Now, the opening build. Because you don't scout at all you put your CC on the high ground which slows your eco down, and your 2nd depot is too early (if gas first, go 1 reaper or 1 marine then reactor then factory and then 2nd depot)" I did that because he used to take my second gas and rush pylons if I try to expand on the natural. "You made too many vikings. Sure he went carriers and that's great, but it means you couldn't be agressive before that. Not to mention how useless they are if he decides to go phoenix adept. Plus if you don't do damage after your first and only stim is over your army is basically dead." I made them because I was live on twitch and a guy said to try that. I used to make liberators instead. "Vikings should have been made only after the first 7+ medivacs and seeing that he was indeed going carriers. Mines are also great but you want to send them forward and burrow as close to the carriers as possible cause otherwise they destroy your entire army focusing the interceptors" That is a huge tip. I will try this for sure. I used to make mines, but it always kills my entire army. Do you think that I can kill him with 1-1 marines supported by lots of medivacs? Even against pylons? Ty ArtyK. I am losing for this guy over and over again. Just can't kill him again, but now I know what to try. Yeah i guessed you were blind countering him but it still wasn't the best. And if he mindgames... As for the gas you can just put an scv on hold position next to it whenever an enemy worker is close to it instead of disrupting your build. Vs pylon rush, if you scouted you could bunker and get a cyclone to defend. Save scans when you see that many oracles, stim one marine ahead of your army when pushing (and another one everytime if it triggers a stasis) and scan his expansion before you start attacking. Liberators are kinda like vikings in this case, good later but not immediatly, and incredibly expensive (and slow to build) Do you seriously think 40 1/1 combat shield marines with medivacs lose to 40 0/0 interceptors? You should have won this game :p edit : just tested it except i added 2 pylons overcharged and amoved into it, the marines won anyway. Focusing the carriers works better but in multiplayer you can't always if they micro back. And that's without the extra mines or avoiding pylons :p I matched him again. 2 games. I will show you the replays. Sorry for my bitchery in the end. That guy is so bm, but he tought I had blocked him. I don't mind to lose, but I hate to lose for this guy. He have 30% agains another races, 75% against terran. http://ggtracker.com/matches/7209181http://ggtracker.com/matches/7209182 Is there only 2 players on NA? You played this before reading my last post though right? Still blocking the gas and no bunker :> Still no scout either so if you're gonna blind counter you don't have the right for your turret still to be building when the oracle arrives :p So i'm ignoring abyssal cause you're dead in 5 minutes On Aiur you didn't make a marine/reaper at least to deny the probe, and your CC was super late. You need to learn the timing of when the oracle arrives cause your ebay is either too early or too late. The cyclone wasn't necessary as he didn't pylon rush. You're so scared you expand high ground again even though you have the bunker this time. And your whole army is in the main even though your turret is done. It should be between your main and natural, usually near the ramp. And because you never scout you had no idea that this time well... he had colossi! :p You think you're blind countering but you're overreacting due to lack of info and knowledge of timings. Even if he doesn't do damage you're putting yourself behind. Make one viking first btw, then medivacs. And get a reactor for your factory after the first 2 mines Those 2 games were worse early game than the one you first sent :p
Yes man. : (
That was the first time he used colossus.
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I d suggest you just sit down and optimize the crap out of your TvP buildorder.
go against an Ai and just do your build over and over again. Watch the replay. Take notice of your mistakes ( Missed Scvs supply blocks, high ressources ). Once you can comfortably do it without having your money spike over 600 minerals / 400 gas, repeat the process while randomly sending an SCV around the map. This way you can force your macro management to speed up and create more screen time for other stuff.
it should take you around 20- 30 tries to nail a BO down this way, but once you have it down close to optimal you can really start going into strategic depth. The reason being that you cannot compare builds and timings that are blurred by blatantly imperfect play.
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also, add the guy to your friendlist and organize a grudematch for my entertainment.
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On October 21 2017 01:29 alpenrahm wrote:
also, add the guy to your friendlist and organize a grudematch for my entertainment.
Lol! You're right. How do you guys got build orders? I just use to try what streammers do.
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On October 21 2017 01:51 Damien wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2017 01:29 alpenrahm wrote:
also, add the guy to your friendlist and organize a grudematch for my entertainment.
Lol! You're right. How do you guys got build orders? I just use to try what streammers do.
I've been using the same BO for more than a year now x)
I adjust it depending on the meta and cheeses that appear, but 111 is pretty versatile so i didn't need to change much, just adding stuff like "if i scout this, i modify this..."
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On October 21 2017 02:19 ArtyK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2017 01:51 Damien wrote:On October 21 2017 01:29 alpenrahm wrote:
also, add the guy to your friendlist and organize a grudematch for my entertainment.
Lol! You're right. How do you guys got build orders? I just use to try what streammers do. I've been using the same BO for more than a year now x) I adjust it depending on the meta and cheeses that appear, but 111 is pretty versatile so i didn't need to change much, just adding stuff like "if i scout this, i modify this..."
What's your rank, ArtyK?
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On October 21 2017 04:30 Damien wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2017 02:19 ArtyK wrote:On October 21 2017 01:51 Damien wrote:On October 21 2017 01:29 alpenrahm wrote:
also, add the guy to your friendlist and organize a grudematch for my entertainment.
Lol! You're right. How do you guys got build orders? I just use to try what streammers do. I've been using the same BO for more than a year now x) I adjust it depending on the meta and cheeses that appear, but 111 is pretty versatile so i didn't need to change much, just adding stuff like "if i scout this, i modify this..." What's your rank, ArtyK?
Masters 2 Random on EU, although i hover in m3 most of the time
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EPT
