EPTThe LotV Terran Help Me Thread - Page 71
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Haole_Catt
10 Posts
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Ryu3600
Canada470 Posts
On March 26 2017 17:06 Haole_Catt wrote: Soooo....I need a generic Terran build. I've looked on spawning tool (don't know where else to), and everything is either matchup specific or somewhat odd. What I need is a base build order that a) protects me from cheese b) doesn't pigeonhole me into a specific mid-late game, c) has some harass built in but d) doesn't require great macro to pull off. A newbie build so to speak. I am very low level so something that allows me to build solid macro, but also lets me strike early if I face an even lamer player than me (All my wins are after 20 minutes but needn't be upon review, I just can't get the how). Sorry if this is vague, but I am a bit overwhelmed b the abundance and specificity of builds. The most generic thing I can tell you is just to go gas first reaper expo it should struggle a bit in TvT but anyways build order is simple as heck 14 - Depot 15 - Gas 16 - Rax 19 - Orbital (upgrade) 19 - reaper 20 - 2nd CC 20 - Factory (Starport immediately after) 21 - Depot (#2 to finish wall) 22 - Gas #2 Literally, from here go into anything. For TvZ go into lots of marines marauders widows and medivacs (Tanks instead of widows if they have roaches) For TvT Tanks Marines and Medivacs For TvP Marines Marauders Liberators and Medivacs But aside from that, there is no "general" build. Each matchup is very different which is why the game is hard. You either gotta learn the builds or improv from an expand build or 1/1/1 build. Personally I have 3-4 builds for each matchup. | ||
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Gullis
Sweden740 Posts
Map is belshire vestige I am doing the 5minute double medivac build versus a zerg. At 3.35 I am realizing I am getting baneling busted, his lings destroys my natural at 3.50 and my ramp gets busted at 4.05 at the time of the bust I have 8 marines. Now my bunker in my natural was not done when he hit but I dont think it would have mattered even if I managed to get down my marines in there. I think could have realized what was happening earlier by keeping better tabs of his third expo. So when doing the double medivac build, how can I sniff out a potential baneling attack? and what should my reaction be when I realize what is happening? | ||
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Haole_Catt
10 Posts
On March 27 2017 06:27 Gullis wrote: Hey guys, I need some helpt with tvz against baneling busts. Map is belshire vestige I am doing the 5minute double medivac build versus a zerg. At 3.35 I am realizing I am getting baneling busted, his lings destroys my natural at 3.50 and my ramp gets busted at 4.05 at the time of the bust I have 8 marines. Now my bunker in my natural was not done when he hit but I dont think it would have mattered even if I managed to get down my marines in there. I think could have realized what was happening earlier by keeping better tabs of his third expo. So when doing the double medivac build, how can I sniff out a potential baneling attack? and what should my reaction be when I realize what is happening? I'm interested in hearing that answer too, as I have been ad-libbing my solutions. Success story, I ran into something like this last night, though I wasn't doing a drop build. I handled it mostly by luck (and some anticipation). I'm a Silver-probably-should-be-Bronze player, so my experience probably doesn't apply, but fun story for me so, on Paladino terminal everyone seems to rush me, and they all seem to use the same route. So I burrowed mines sequentially along the path everyone uses. I only had three out, but he ran right along where I thought and ate all 3 mines there one after the other and his all in never even got into my expansion. He tried to push again a minute later but by then I had taken a clear advantage and when I cleaned that one up he quit. I don't know how practical a solution that is since as a new player I am not trying to do timing attacks/complex builds yet and am playing more defensively so I think that would probably derail a lot of builds and/or not do enough damage to an all in from a better player than I faced. | ||
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Haole_Catt
10 Posts
Thinking about it today though, I'm not sure what the response should have been had I remembered earlier. What do you use against a Thor in general, and what would you do if you expected an early Thor drop? | ||
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Ryu3600
Canada470 Posts
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ArtyK
France3144 Posts
As for baneling bust save your reaper and come back at ~3.10-3.30 to see if the zerg has : 1. a third base 2. 8+ drones on his natural 3. baneling nest / roach warren if you can get into their main With 1. and 2. you don't even need to see his main, theres no third and larvaes have been used on other things than drones so build a bunker (depending on the map you might want to build it at the top of your main ramp and just lift your natural to be safe) Bunker should finish in time and soak up enough baneling hit to allow you to survive | ||
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Janko
Slovenia28 Posts
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Ryu3600
Canada470 Posts
On March 28 2017 05:25 Janko wrote: What's the best response to a Thor rush in TvT? What units should I be making if I scout it? Literally read the comment above you lol.. Other than that a fast armory a lack of an expo or tech are dead giveaways as most people will proxy it. If you scout it you will want Vikings, Tanks marines and scv's. When the thor is dropped have your scv's surround it. The other units need to focus on either damaging the thor, stopping it from killing tanks or most importantly killing the medivac. Without the Medivac your SCV's will easily surround and destroy the thor. | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
On March 27 2017 21:02 Ryu3600 wrote: hey so um to people who are asking how to defend against a baneling bust with the 2-1-1 the sad truth is there is no direct way... I myself personally will not do the 2-1-1 just because it is so susceptible to cheese. It is so easy to kill and its so figured out. However I suppose if you really wanted to use it try 17 scout and count their gas # and whether they go pool first or not. Do not lose your reaper at all. Their speed timing and # of lings is also a big tell. As soon as you identify it start widows/tanks and make a thick wall (Add engineering bays as they build the fastest) no hellions means banes busts will hit you extra hard innovation just builds like 2-3 extra bunkesr, the rush does nothing and hes SO ahead (more ahead than you would be with just hellions) i think ur point about losing the reaper is most important, with bio openings, its the only way to scout besides scans (which is obviously bad). if your opponent doesnt take a third by 3:30 and they have speed, i honestly dont think its super game losing to build 2 bunkers at your natural. for reference i play random | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2665 Posts
Any opinions on the matter? | ||
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Ryu3600
Canada470 Posts
On March 31 2017 09:16 Lexender wrote: Guys what do you think is the best TvT build if you want to play mech? I feel like double raven is not good for mech because its too gas intensive, its good for bio because you start getting marines and stim pretty early one but for mech I feel you get factories and armorie too late to do anything. Any opinions on the matter? I made a safety mech build a while back at the start of 3.8 I mostly play biotank but it worked well for me when I played mech and another masters dude comments that it is really good http://lotv.spawningtool.com/build/41199/ as long as you like watch for the ravens and pick them off as well as properly scouting for what they can hit you with you should not die with this build. | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
On March 31 2017 09:16 Lexender wrote: Guys what do you think is the best TvT build if you want to play mech? I feel like double raven is not good for mech because its too gas intensive, its good for bio because you start getting marines and stim pretty early one but for mech I feel you get factories and armorie too late to do anything. Any opinions on the matter? hi masters Terran here with TvT being around 80% win for me double raven is falling out of fashion in favor of vikings but i dont open with either. try this build out depot gas rax gas 2 scv scout (just looking to see if he built a reaper) orbital + factory + marine pull 1 scv off of both gasses (2/3 on both refs) depot at ramp techlab on rax when marine is done put those scvs back in gasses (3/3 on both refs) ------ did you scout a reaper? if so decide if you want to build a hellion or not. helion will make you safe, but if you can skip it, you can build reactor and get faster reactored marines/a faster CC at the natural ------ lift rax, produce 2 more marines with rax build starport immediately on techlab banshee + cloak ------ SCV CUT ------ @400 min, CC at natural @100 minerals start double marines from reactor rax raven techlab on factory vikings from here if you want to play bio, once the first viking is done (or if you are greedy, just after the raven), swap the reactor from barracks to the starport and put the rax on the SP techlab for stim if you want to go into mech, start double factory here and push @ 3 tanks what are u worried about with this build (build order counters)? 1. guy who makes a reaper, kills ur scv with it, makes a second reaper and then attacks. you will have 3 marines and a banshee at about 50% built. good luck! micro with scvs/marines to hold 2. guy who makes a reaper, then 2 cyclones and immediately attacks. in this situation you will have 3 marines, 1 banshee and 2 marines being made. you need to focus fire one of the cyclones and be ready to get your banshee to high ground to avoid cyclone vision as cloak will not be done in time 3. proxied reapers. you will know by the amount of reapesr. basically hold with scvs and hellions being made 1 at a time, and build a reactor on ur rax in the meantime. if you can get reactored hellions out its over if you learn this build and refine it you will win reliably vs top masters and NA GMs, i came back from BW in december or so and started practicing this build because it was how i played in WOL. Turns out, its just as good, with a few caveats, and is an awesome/safe way to open mech. about a month in i beat my first GM with it and hve maintained 100% win vs NA gm with this. this build is not common at the professional levels for a few reasons but it is how i play and I think if you do everything well you have a good shot at winning vs anyone. | ||
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alpenrahm
Germany629 Posts
so there is this opening that i encounter quite frequently that does give me a bit of troubles at times. it´s something like this: 2x Reaper -> Cyclone -> liberator -> 2x tank 8 rine 2x medvac drop off of an early double gas with a delayed Expo. I´m currently just getting back into things so i´m using eco heavy openings most of the time while skipping on starport tech in favor of an earlier natural and more Raxes + upgrades. Something like Rax CC 2x Rax Factory is my go to. i got the double reaper cyclone under control and rarely take any dmg from it but it is problematic to deal with the tank + liberator push without having vikings out. So the gist of my question is; is a defensive TvT without a starport for the early game doable or should I just adjust by taking earlier Gas and getting into starport tech myself? | ||
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Ryu3600
Canada470 Posts
On April 12 2017 20:48 alpenrahm wrote: hi there quick question, TvT so there is this opening that i encounter quite frequently that does give me a bit of troubles at times. it´s something like this: 2x Reaper -> Cyclone -> liberator -> 2x tank 8 rine 2x medvac drop off of an early double gas with a delayed Expo. I´m currently just getting back into things so i´m using eco heavy openings most of the time while skipping on starport tech in favor of an earlier natural and more Raxes + upgrades. Something like Rax CC 2x Rax Factory is my go to. i got the double reaper cyclone under control and rarely take any dmg from it but it is problematic to deal with the tank + liberator push without having vikings out. So the gist of my question is; is a defensive TvT without a starport for the early game doable or should I just adjust by taking earlier Gas and getting into starport tech myself? Hey Alpenrahm first off thanks for posting here I was getting bored waiting to help someone! anyways TvT is one of my favorite match-ups so I think I can help you a lot. Personally in my opinion the double reaper cycle build is old but hey it works I suppose a follow up from it is usually delayed compared to most builds. When I play TvT I like to open with 2 reaper 1 hellion. The reason for this is because starport units are some of the most useful units in TvT. In the early game for TvT you usually want to get out at least 1 or get two ravens out. From there on you want about 4-6 vikings. Why is this? Simply put medivacs are useful for bio but you will not get the chance to use those medivacs in the early parts of TvT due to most people opening on 1 base. Hence making the viking a more utillity heavy unit. Im not quite sure what your build is but I would switch it up. Personally the opener I do is as follows: 14 Depot 15 Gas 16 Rax 17 Gas 19 Orbital 19 Reaper 20 Factory 20 depot 21 Reaper 22 Hellion From here I kinda forget the exact supply times cause it will vary but follow these steps in this order After 2 reapers reactor on rax After Factory is finished start a hellion and starport (Depot at 26-27) After Hellion Techlab After Techlab swap factory and starport (Make 1 raven and 1 mine or a 2nd techlab) ----Constant 2x Marines 1x SCV and 1 depot at a time---- After 2 ravens swap rax and starport ----Now from here you want 5 marines, 1 tank 2 vikings (Up to 4-6 then start medivac production--- Using Raven either harrass or build energy for a push. Start 2nd CC Start Stimpack Start 2 Rax Assuming you're following right you should have 3-1-1 with a 2nd base from here you're going to drop rax 4-5 at 5:00 Double Ebay at 5:30 3rd CC @6:00 Gas 3 and 4 @ 6:20-6:30 Add on anything you want from here as you see necessary (Ideally I like to go for 7rax 3 factories 1 starport @8:30) Anyways that is the build I do but you cannot play TvT without the starport. Vikings Ravens and Medivacs are all essential units. I recommend you watch this video (Its the ideal way to play TvT) but TvT is a very slow paced match up. It can be very action packed but a lot of it comes down to how you position yourself. Once you figure out the perfect position to defend these pushes and the units required for it you will have an easy time defeating this build! If you need further help or replay analysis send me a message on TL and ill gladly go into a better explanation with you! Goodluck on Ladder! | ||
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alpenrahm
Germany629 Posts
On April 12 2017 20:48 alpenrahm wrote: hi there quick question, TvT so there is this opening that i encounter quite frequently that does give me a bit of troubles at times. it´s something like this: 2x Reaper -> Cyclone -> liberator -> 2x tank 8 rine 2x medvac drop off of an early double gas with a delayed Expo. I´m currently just getting back into things so i´m using eco heavy openings most of the time while skipping on starport tech in favor of an earlier natural and more Raxes + upgrades. Something like Rax CC 2x Rax Factory is my go to. i got the double reaper cyclone under control and rarely take any dmg from it but it is problematic to deal with the tank + liberator push without having vikings out. So the gist of my question is; is a defensive TvT without a starport for the early game doable or should I just adjust by taking earlier Gas and getting into starport tech myself? Hey Alpenrahm first off thanks for posting here I was getting bored waiting to help someone! anyways TvT is one of my favorite match-ups so I think I can help you a lot. Personally in my opinion the double reaper cycle build is old but hey it works I suppose a follow up from it is usually delayed compared to most builds. When I play TvT I like to open with 2 reaper 1 hellion. The reason for this is because starport units are some of the most useful units in TvT. In the early game for TvT you usually want to get out at least 1 or get two ravens out. From there on you want about 4-6 vikings. Why is this? Simply put medivacs are useful for bio but you will not get the chance to use those medivacs in the early parts of TvT due to most people opening on 1 base. Hence making the viking a more utillity heavy unit. Im not quite sure what your build is but I would switch it up. Personally the opener I do is as follows: 14 Depot 15 Gas 16 Rax 17 Gas 19 Orbital 19 Reaper 20 Factory 20 depot 21 Reaper 22 Hellion From here I kinda forget the exact supply times cause it will vary but follow these steps in this order After 2 reapers reactor on rax After Factory is finished start a hellion and starport (Depot at 26-27) After Hellion Techlab After Techlab swap factory and starport (Make 1 raven and 1 mine or a 2nd techlab) ----Constant 2x Marines 1x SCV and 1 depot at a time---- After 2 ravens swap rax and starport ----Now from here you want 5 marines, 1 tank 2 vikings (Up to 4-6 then start medivac production--- Using Raven either harrass or build energy for a push. Start 2nd CC Start Stimpack Start 2 Rax Assuming you're following right you should have 3-1-1 with a 2nd base from here you're going to drop rax 4-5 at 5:00 Double Ebay at 5:30 3rd CC @6:00 Gas 3 and 4 @ 6:20-6:30 Add on anything you want from here as you see necessary (Ideally I like to go for 7rax 3 factories 1 starport @8:30) Anyways that is the build I do but you cannot play TvT without the starport. Vikings Ravens and Medivacs are all essential units. I recommend you watch this video (Its the ideal way to play TvT) but TvT is a very slow paced match up. It can be very action packed but a lot of it comes down to how you position yourself. Once you figure out the perfect position to defend these pushes and the units required for it you will have an easy time defeating this build! If you need further help or replay analysis send me a message on TL and ill gladly go into a better explanation with you! Goodluck on Ladder! thanks. | ||
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
So in mech vs bio, how large percent of your army supply should you leave at home to defend your production? | ||
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Pnissen
Denmark110 Posts
On April 14 2017 22:07 MockHamill wrote: If you play mech vs bio the bio player will often sooner or later fly everthing into in your main even if you have a turret ring. So in mech vs bio, how large percent of your army supply should you leave at home to defend your production? The most important thing is knowing where his army is when you choose to move out. And really I dont think there is a big reason to move out if hes staying on ground - I prefer hellion runbys and hellbat drops. I always have at least 1-2 tanks siege in the main once you have a reasonable amount - and of course the viking ravns squad in good position. | ||
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
Opening Defensive marine/tank. Only expand is Protoss expands. Blind turret in mineral line and behind wall to natural. Midgame Defensive tank/mine plus a few vikings. Get 4 factories(2 Tech, 2 Reactor) and a starport. Do a couple of widow mine drops. Prioritie armour uppgrades so that carriers do less damage in the late game. Two sensor towers to spot incomming attacks. Check at 7.30 to see if he is going air. If he stays on ground add one more factory. If he goes air go up to 4 starports for BC production. Late game Battlecruicers from 4 starports. Use widow mines to protect BCs from void rays and blink stalkers. Add ravens against tempest, tanks against mass stalkers, hellbats if he is not going mass air. | ||
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Ryu3600
Canada470 Posts
On April 15 2017 16:26 MockHamill wrote: This is my current gameplan in TvP. Anyting I need to change? Opening Defensive marine/tank. Only expand is Protoss expands. Blind turret in mineral line and behind wall to natural. Midgame Defensive tank/mine plus a few vikings. Get 4 factories(2 Tech, 2 Reactor) and a starport. Do a couple of widow mine drops. Prioritie armour uppgrades so that carriers do less damage in the late game. Two sensor towers to spot incomming attacks. Check at 7.30 to see if he is going air. If he stays on ground add one more factory. If he goes air go up to 4 starports for BC production. Late game Battlecruicers from 4 starports. Use widow mines to protect BCs from void rays and blink stalkers. Add ravens against tempest, tanks against mass stalkers, hellbats if he is not going mass air. Try opening banshee 1 widow 6 marine medivac drop (or 1 cyclone 4 marines) into banshee  I think its a pretty good aggro opener to put pressure on toss so they know to back off | ||
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