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On March 07 2017 03:31 Poopi wrote:
What is the transition you need to do in TvZ around the start of your 4th base when the zerg goes into ultra/Corruptors+meatshield, sometimes he still has some mutas?
I tried liberators / mines but I can't trade well enough, marines take too much time to kill corruptors or are getting swarmed.
Has the liberator nerf something to do with it?
Do I need air upgrades earlier?
usually when there's more than 10 mines they're doing good vs ultra, but in tvz if you don't kill his bases and your 4th is too late it's hard anyway.
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On March 12 2017 10:50 Ryu3600 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2017 03:00 MockHamill wrote:
If you play mech in TvP how do you counter mass phoenix into mass phoenix/adepts? widows and thors are my guess.
How about blue flame? Adepts are light, and you have the tech lab for Thors anyway.
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How exactly do i have to use WM vs Zerg in order to prevent them to be traitor mines? It seems that in all my games, all Zerg needs to do is right click behind my army and he wins, while in any pro game, the WMs do get decent shots or at least, dont kill 10 marines.
Most of my mines do have really bad connects. And i don't know why exactly, or how i can prevent the zerg from just winning my right clicking behind my army. In HotS you have seen pros do unburrow but nowaday that is rarely the case so i wonder how do i use mines effectively. Right clicking on the banes is what i try but it doesnt rly work and also while doing that, i cant split further. But if i split and micro the marines dont shoot as they are moving and the WMs connect with the speedling the zerg just right clicked behind my army, so what is the secret?
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37124 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/365518-sc2-general-discussion-and-simple-q-a?page=195#3900
On March 21 2017 10:00 Haole_Catt wrote:Hi all. I'm guessing this is the right place for this, please let me know if it isn't. I'm a new SC2 player (I've had the game for a while but almost never played and didn't do multiplayer at all). I've been reading guides and watching vids (some day9, and filterSC). I have some basic command of the hotkeys and concepts, and I seem to be, while uneven and slow, relatively decent at macro early. Micro I am awful at. I also seem to get overwhelmed by the multitasking as the game progresses into 8 or more minutes (roughly). Oh, I play Terran. I finally got myself ranked by the computer last night, and while I fully expected to be Bronze, for some reason it threw me into silver. But obviously I didn't have a great idea what I am doing. I got predictably crushed in my first several matches (no wins yet, not that I expected any yet). Most of these losses came very early, I simply got overran within the first 5 minutes either with all ins, vastly superior macro, one cannon rush, etc. However, one game I feel like I should have won, as at a few points in the game I had grabbed what should have been a decisive advantage. I'm hoping someone can take a look at this and give me some ideas about what I did wrong and what I should have done http://www.mediafire.com/file/72wwrwkg97wnutf/Match1 - loss.SC2Replay(not even sure if this is how to post the replay) Essentially in this game I have an early macro advantage that I sustain pretty much throughout the match. Somewhere around 6 minutes in my opponent hits me with multiple reapers at my natural, which I fend off. At 9 minutes I have a counter drop which hits his economy hard. At this point I have 41 SCVs to his 21, and 82 supply to his 40. I am being aggressive repeatedly until about the 15 minute mark, but I am not successful (think I went in with not enough force). Then I get a bad exchange and don't recover from it. Some things I see myself: I am losing control of my macro (starting to queue buildings and units). I'm also not teching up properly, have production facilities not being used. I guess standard beginner stuff. I didn't really have much of a plan TBH- going in I planned on focusing on macro, getting a siege tank early for defense, and doing an economic drop while I built up force to steam roll him. No exact build order planned, just the rough plan. That's about all I'm up to right now. Sorry for the long post, and thanks in advance!
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If Protoss opens with 1 gas, a gateway and an expansion, what is the earliest he can get an oracle in your base?
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Im not sure the exact timing but that should be enough time to get out 8 marines 2 widows 1 medivac and maybe a cyclone to deflect it
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I'm looking to try some different builds. What is your favourite build in each matchup and why do you like it?
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On March 22 2017 03:20 Hushfieldx wrote:
I'm looking to try some different builds. What is your favourite build in each matchup and why do you like it?
I love macro builds the names of the builds I use are here though
TvT :
Double reaper hellion into ravens (Its really easy to execute and gets you into a solid macro game with good punishment options vs Reaper expo players)
Ty's 3cc Raven macro build is also really powerful and fun to use but its really difficult to execute
TvZ:
Gas First Hellion Banshee (Very solid opener that can get you a fast 3rd CC)
3-1-0 (Fun build if you like going the defensive macro route)
TvP:
3Rax Bio (If you played the 3rax build in HotS this one is very similar except bigger and stronger with medivacs too!)
GasFirstWidow Drop (Just a solid opener in TvP)
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On March 22 2017 05:53 Ryu3600 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2017 03:20 Hushfieldx wrote:
I'm looking to try some different builds. What is your favourite build in each matchup and why do you like it? I love macro builds the names of the builds I use are here though TvT : Double reaper hellion into ravens (Its really easy to execute and gets you into a solid macro game with good punishment options vs Reaper expo players) Ty's 3cc Raven macro build is also really powerful and fun to use but its really difficult to execute TvZ: Gas First Hellion Banshee (Very solid opener that can get you a fast 3rd CC) 3-1-0 (Fun build if you like going the defensive macro route) TvP: 3Rax Bio (If you played the 3rax build in HotS this one is very similar except bigger and stronger with medivacs too!) GasFirstWidow Drop (Just a solid opener in TvP)
Thanks for the extended answer! Are these the builds you were refering to?
TvT:
Double reaper hellion into ravens
Double Raven 3CC
TvZ
Gas first hellion banshee
I can't seem to find a build for 3-1-0. I've also never heard of this. How does it work/differ from 2-1-1?
TvP
3 rax bio
Gas first widow drop
Thanks again 
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On March 21 2017 12:38 Seeker wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/365518-sc2-general-discussion-and-simple-q-a?page=195#3900Show nested quote +On March 21 2017 10:00 Haole_Catt wrote:Hi all. I'm guessing this is the right place for this, please let me know if it isn't. I'm a new SC2 player (I've had the game for a while but almost never played and didn't do multiplayer at all). I've been reading guides and watching vids (some day9, and filterSC). I have some basic command of the hotkeys and concepts, and I seem to be, while uneven and slow, relatively decent at macro early. Micro I am awful at. I also seem to get overwhelmed by the multitasking as the game progresses into 8 or more minutes (roughly). Oh, I play Terran. I finally got myself ranked by the computer last night, and while I fully expected to be Bronze, for some reason it threw me into silver. But obviously I didn't have a great idea what I am doing. I got predictably crushed in my first several matches (no wins yet, not that I expected any yet). Most of these losses came very early, I simply got overran within the first 5 minutes either with all ins, vastly superior macro, one cannon rush, etc. However, one game I feel like I should have won, as at a few points in the game I had grabbed what should have been a decisive advantage. I'm hoping someone can take a look at this and give me some ideas about what I did wrong and what I should have done http://www.mediafire.com/file/72wwrwkg97wnutf/Match1 - loss.SC2Replay(not even sure if this is how to post the replay) Essentially in this game I have an early macro advantage that I sustain pretty much throughout the match. Somewhere around 6 minutes in my opponent hits me with multiple reapers at my natural, which I fend off. At 9 minutes I have a counter drop which hits his economy hard. At this point I have 41 SCVs to his 21, and 82 supply to his 40. I am being aggressive repeatedly until about the 15 minute mark, but I am not successful (think I went in with not enough force). Then I get a bad exchange and don't recover from it. Some things I see myself: I am losing control of my macro (starting to queue buildings and units). I'm also not teching up properly, have production facilities not being used. I guess standard beginner stuff. I didn't really have much of a plan TBH- going in I planned on focusing on macro, getting a siege tank early for defense, and doing an economic drop while I built up force to steam roll him. No exact build order planned, just the rough plan. That's about all I'm up to right now. Sorry for the long post, and thanks in advance!
Hello there,
I watched your replay and I will answer your question. However you need to know that there are more important, basic things that play a greater role than these few points in your replay. I'll try to not overwhelm you with too much information.
- Remember to upgrade you Command Center to an Orbital Command as soon as you finish your first Barracks. The sooner you can drop MULEs the better!
- It is almost never efficient to use Barracks, Factories and Starports without any kind of addon. Drop the addon needed when you can afford it. The cases when you use addon-less production facilities is when time is a factor, i.e. when you doing a certain build or expect to be attacked and need units out very fast.
- Do not run up a ramp, without knowing what's waiting, especially if there is the possibility of units like siege tanks. You lost a lot at his ramp.
- Your production facilities were idle most of the time. You were not building enough army, but you had so much money.
What basically happened is that you didn't spend your money, even tho you did good damage to your opponent with your drop.
Here are some general tips:
- If you care, I recommend to learn a build and to use it over and over again. This will help you with "not having a plan"!
- You did not a bad job at building SCVs, but you can do it better! Try to not miss a beat until you have let's say 66 SCVs. Queue up 2 SCVs (or even 3) in each Command Center. That's totally fine. If you hover over the supply on the top right with your mouse, you see how many SCVs you currently have.
- Spend your money. Do more army, do more Brracks, Factories, Starports, Depots, etc. Just spend it.
- Every saturated base you have lets you produce out of 3 to 4 production facilities constantly. More concrete: For instance, on one base you can have 3 Barracks, 1 Factory, 1 Starport. If you have income from an additional mining base, you can add 3 more Barracks! This way you can spend your money much faster!
- Have 1 SCV always building 1 Depots when you a are on one base. Have 2 SCVs always building 2 Depots when you are on 2 base, etc.
- Be aware of what your army is doing. You often send your army into the fog and then forget about it. You could run into a sieged tank fire or fight vs a bigger army without knowing it.
There is some more stuff we could talk about, but those points should be more than sufficent. Feel free to ask more if you are not content  Hope I could help. Gl!
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On March 22 2017 06:47 Hushfieldx wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2017 05:53 Ryu3600 wrote:On March 22 2017 03:20 Hushfieldx wrote:
I'm looking to try some different builds. What is your favourite build in each matchup and why do you like it? I love macro builds the names of the builds I use are here though TvT : Double reaper hellion into ravens (Its really easy to execute and gets you into a solid macro game with good punishment options vs Reaper expo players) Ty's 3cc Raven macro build is also really powerful and fun to use but its really difficult to execute TvZ: Gas First Hellion Banshee (Very solid opener that can get you a fast 3rd CC) 3-1-0 (Fun build if you like going the defensive macro route) TvP: 3Rax Bio (If you played the 3rax build in HotS this one is very similar except bigger and stronger with medivacs too!) GasFirstWidow Drop (Just a solid opener in TvP) Thanks for the extended answer! Are these the builds you were refering to? TvT: Double reaper hellion into ravensDouble Raven 3CCTvZ Gas first hellion bansheeI can't seem to find a build for 3-1-0. I've also never heard of this. How does it work/differ from 2-1-1? TvP 3 rax bioGas first widow dropThanks again
Yeah most of them are right! also sorry it was a bit lazy on my part haha but the 3-1-0 is a greedy build it was used by maru and innovation quite a bit (you can see it used in the GSL INnoVation vs soO on Newkirk) the link for that build is right here http://lotv.spawningtool.com/build/43314/ it goes by other names as well such as 3cc 4 hellion and there is even a video that beastyQT did that covers the build if I am not mistaken but i like using it a lot because if you got solid control and confidence in your play you can do a lot with it in the mid game but if you any questions for these builds let me know! I wouldnt mind teaching you how I use them and open with them
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On March 23 2017 02:55 Phaenoman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2017 12:38 Seeker wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/365518-sc2-general-discussion-and-simple-q-a?page=195#3900On March 21 2017 10:00 Haole_Catt wrote:Hi all. I'm guessing this is the right place for this, please let me know if it isn't. I'm a new SC2 player (I've had the game for a while but almost never played and didn't do multiplayer at all). I've been reading guides and watching vids (some day9, and filterSC). I have some basic command of the hotkeys and concepts, and I seem to be, while uneven and slow, relatively decent at macro early. Micro I am awful at. I also seem to get overwhelmed by the multitasking as the game progresses into 8 or more minutes (roughly). Oh, I play Terran. I finally got myself ranked by the computer last night, and while I fully expected to be Bronze, for some reason it threw me into silver. But obviously I didn't have a great idea what I am doing. I got predictably crushed in my first several matches (no wins yet, not that I expected any yet). Most of these losses came very early, I simply got overran within the first 5 minutes either with all ins, vastly superior macro, one cannon rush, etc. However, one game I feel like I should have won, as at a few points in the game I had grabbed what should have been a decisive advantage. I'm hoping someone can take a look at this and give me some ideas about what I did wrong and what I should have done http://www.mediafire.com/file/72wwrwkg97wnutf/Match1 - loss.SC2Replay(not even sure if this is how to post the replay) Essentially in this game I have an early macro advantage that I sustain pretty much throughout the match. Somewhere around 6 minutes in my opponent hits me with multiple reapers at my natural, which I fend off. At 9 minutes I have a counter drop which hits his economy hard. At this point I have 41 SCVs to his 21, and 82 supply to his 40. I am being aggressive repeatedly until about the 15 minute mark, but I am not successful (think I went in with not enough force). Then I get a bad exchange and don't recover from it. Some things I see myself: I am losing control of my macro (starting to queue buildings and units). I'm also not teching up properly, have production facilities not being used. I guess standard beginner stuff. I didn't really have much of a plan TBH- going in I planned on focusing on macro, getting a siege tank early for defense, and doing an economic drop while I built up force to steam roll him. No exact build order planned, just the rough plan. That's about all I'm up to right now. Sorry for the long post, and thanks in advance! Hello there, I watched your replay and I will answer your question. However you need to know that there are more important, basic things that play a greater role than these few points in your replay. I'll try to not overwhelm you with too much information. - Remember to upgrade you Command Center to an Orbital Command as soon as you finish your first Barracks. The sooner you can drop MULEs the better!
- It is almost never efficient to use Barracks, Factories and Starports without any kind of addon. Drop the addon needed when you can afford it. The cases when you use addon-less production facilities is when time is a factor, i.e. when you doing a certain build or expect to be attacked and need units out very fast.
- Do not run up a ramp, without knowing what's waiting, especially if there is the possibility of units like siege tanks. You lost a lot at his ramp.
- Your production facilities were idle most of the time. You were not building enough army, but you had so much money.
What basically happened is that you didn't spend your money, even tho you did good damage to your opponent with your drop. Here are some general tips: - If you care, I recommend to learn a build and to use it over and over again. This will help you with "not having a plan"!
- You did not a bad job at building SCVs, but you can do it better! Try to not miss a beat until you have let's say 66 SCVs. Queue up 2 SCVs (or even 3) in each Command Center. That's totally fine. If you hover over the supply on the top right with your mouse, you see how many SCVs you currently have.
- Spend your money. Do more army, do more Brracks, Factories, Starports, Depots, etc. Just spend it.
- Every saturated base you have lets you produce out of 3 to 4 production facilities constantly. More concrete: For instance, on one base you can have 3 Barracks, 1 Factory, 1 Starport. If you have income from an additional mining base, you can add 3 more Barracks! This way you can spend your money much faster!
- Have 1 SCV always building 1 Depots when you a are on one base. Have 2 SCVs always building 2 Depots when you are on 2 base, etc.
- Be aware of what your army is doing. You often send your army into the fog and then forget about it. You could run into a sieged tank fire or fight vs a bigger army without knowing it.
There is some more stuff we could talk about, but those points should be more than sufficent. Feel free to ask more if you are not content Hope I could help. Gl!
Hi, thanks for the response and for taking the time to look through that replay. After watching it over and over 30ish times I can see how long those facilities were unused, and how stupid the blind rushes were - basically suicide runs. I also didn't know you could get your worker count like that. I will definitely work on making sure no nudity is permitted at my facilities in the future
Since you are open to questions, here are some more:
How do you know when to build a supply depot? Build orders often don't seem to specify that. Do build at something like "for every base I build one at 6 under cap so 3 would be 18?"
While many facilities were unused because I suck at multitasking, many were also that way because I failed to hotkey them. I know that part is because I queued them up (I know) and part is because while I ordered 1 but felt I couldn't wait for the SCV to start before going on to something else. Then I either forgot I made them or couldn't find them when I went to hotkey them after. Is there a standard placement recommendation (so I can find them easier if I miss the hotkey)? Everything at Main? or "5 at each" or something?
Build orders. I'm trying to use SALT, but I'm running into some issues with the orders. Fist is the lack of knowing when to supply. I've run a bunch of this one: http://lotv.spawningtool.com/build/22497/ which is a generic opener but it doesn't show depot timing, and it doesn't have an early siege tank (which I think I need at my level due to getting creamed early by ravagers and stuff that my bio couldn't hold off). Then I tried this: http://lotv.spawningtool.com/build/47278/ it's a hellion into double reaper thing, which I think is for TvT. But that exposed my biggest issue with a lot of build orders. Saying my micro is bad isn't accurate. Saying it doesn't exist is more like it. (It's basically a-move xcancel, move command, rinse repeat I think) So a build order that gives me 4 hellions early is useless to me as I can't use them. That's why I've been going for the macro-until-I-get-a-ball-of-death thing.
So that leaves me with 2 questions. First, how do I practice micro other than trying to milk a 'very easy' AI? Second, what build order will be fairly productive and have me learn while my micro is still just a myth?
Thanks again!
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On March 23 2017 13:40 Haole_Catt wrote:Hi, thanks for the response and for taking the time to look through that replay. After watching it over and over 30ish times I can see how long those facilities were unused, and how stupid the blind rushes were - basically suicide runs. I also didn't know you could get your worker count like that. I will definitely work on making sure no nudity is permitted at my facilities in the future Since you are open to questions, here are some more: How do you know when to build a supply depot? Build orders often don't seem to specify that. Do build at something like "for every base I build one at 6 under cap so 3 would be 18?"
Build orders should have Depot times included most of the time, at least the first couple ones. If you wanna time a Depot then you can start the depot 6 to 8 before your supply cap. However these numbers are not applyable for your first Depots as you will not have the production capabilities anyways, e.g your very first Depot is at 14/15, your second Depot at 22/23.
After you have completed your build order just follow the basic rule of building as many Depots as you have bases simultaneously. Order those very SCVs to build Depots right away when they finish the previous ones. You should be fine like that!
On March 23 2017 13:40 Haole_Catt wrote:
While many facilities were unused because I suck at multitasking, many were also that way because I failed to hotkey them. I know that part is because I queued them up (I know) and part is because while I ordered 1 but felt I couldn't wait for the SCV to start before going on to something else. Then I either forgot I made them or couldn't find them when I went to hotkey them after. Is there a standard placement recommendation (so I can find them easier if I miss the hotkey)? Everything at Main? or "5 at each" or something?
Ok, so let me just tell you my preferences. I am sure there are ppl with other opinions. Look at the picture:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9wGWpbu.jpg)
I like to prevent chaotic buiding placement in my play, because:
- your units can get stuck between buildings, which can be very frustrating
- you know where you placed your buildings, e.g. engineering bays or armories
- important tech structures can be sniped (e.g. with a drop) easily if not placed in a safer spot
Important to know is that the Factory has to have 2 squares of free space to its left, top or bottom IF you are building techlab units like Tanks and Thors. If you don't, these units will not come out of your Factory and your production will not continue.
For Barracks 1 square of free space is enough. Starport units can fly
There are different ways of arranging your productions facilities. I like to do it this way.
If you can't place any further building in your main without disrupting the pathing of your units, simply distribute them over your expansion or your third base. That's totally fine.
Of course you should remember to bind your facilities. I don't know if your are feeling more comfortable binding each Barracks, Factory and Starport on a different hotkey or you just haven't thought about having all of them on one single hotkey and using TAB to switch between the types. It's a preference in the end and up to you.
On March 23 2017 13:40 Haole_Catt wrote:Build orders. I'm trying to use SALT, but I'm running into some issues with the orders. Fist is the lack of knowing when to supply. I've run a bunch of this one: http://lotv.spawningtool.com/build/22497/ which is a generic opener but it doesn't show depot timing, and it doesn't have an early siege tank (which I think I need at my level due to getting creamed early by ravagers and stuff that my bio couldn't hold off). Then I tried this: http://lotv.spawningtool.com/build/47278/ it's a hellion into double reaper thing, which I think is for TvT. But that exposed my biggest issue with a lot of build orders. Saying my micro is bad isn't accurate. Saying it doesn't exist is more like it. (It's basically a-move xcancel, move command, rinse repeat I think) So a build order that gives me 4 hellions early is useless to me as I can't use them. That's why I've been going for the macro-until-I-get-a-ball-of-death thing.
I am not sure what you mean. It does show the Depot timings. Or did I misunderstand you?
In terms of build order: There is no build order without a weakness. You need to focus on one and can even adjust it if you feel or scout certain kinds of aggression. If you want to have a build that inlcudes a tank we can look for one.
On March 23 2017 13:40 Haole_Catt wrote:
So that leaves me with 2 questions. First, how do I practice micro other than trying to milk a 'very easy' AI? Second, what build order will be fairly productive and have me learn while my micro is still just a myth?
Thanks again!
Your micro is not as deciding as your macro as of yet. Any build order will suit you as long as you enjoy it. Focus on your macro. Try to micro from time to time even if you fail, but don't overdo it, otherwise your macro will slip. You will make noticeable progress : )
I hope I was not too abstract in answering your questions.
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No, that makes sense. I guess the supply depots are either not coming up in SALT or I am not seeing/hearing them. Or I'm just producing more units or something. I'm "reserving" my hotkeys so to speak as I don't have the fine control I need. 1-3 are supposed to be bio, mech, air, but I generally have everything that leaves the base grouped on "1". 4-7 are CCs-Barracks-Factories-Starports. The others are supposed to be either tech or unique units. I haven't gotten around to using them much though. I the siege tank is just to protect against early rushes or all-ins, so I guess anything that does the job would work, not necessarily a tank.
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On March 24 2017 08:08 Phaenoman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2017 13:40 Haole_Catt wrote:Hi, thanks for the response and for taking the time to look through that replay. After watching it over and over 30ish times I can see how long those facilities were unused, and how stupid the blind rushes were - basically suicide runs. I also didn't know you could get your worker count like that. I will definitely work on making sure no nudity is permitted at my facilities in the future Since you are open to questions, here are some more: How do you know when to build a supply depot? Build orders often don't seem to specify that. Do build at something like "for every base I build one at 6 under cap so 3 would be 18?" Build orders should have Depot times included most of the time, at least the first couple ones. If you wanna time a Depot then you can start the depot 6 to 8 before your supply cap. However these numbers are not applyable for your first Depots as you will not have the production capabilities anyways, e.g your very first Depot is at 14/15, your second Depot at 22/23. After you have completed your build order just follow the basic rule of building as many Depots as you have bases simultaneously. Order those very SCVs to build Depots right away when they finish the previous ones. You should be fine like that! Show nested quote +On March 23 2017 13:40 Haole_Catt wrote:
While many facilities were unused because I suck at multitasking, many were also that way because I failed to hotkey them. I know that part is because I queued them up (I know) and part is because while I ordered 1 but felt I couldn't wait for the SCV to start before going on to something else. Then I either forgot I made them or couldn't find them when I went to hotkey them after. Is there a standard placement recommendation (so I can find them easier if I miss the hotkey)? Everything at Main? or "5 at each" or something? Ok, so let me just tell you my preferences. I am sure there are ppl with other opinions. Look at the picture: I like to prevent chaotic buiding placement in my play, because: - your units can get stuck between buildings, which can be very frustrating
- you know where you placed your buildings, e.g. engineering bays or armories
- important tech structures can be sniped (e.g. with a drop) easily if not placed in a safer spot
Important to know is that the Factory has to have 2 squares of free space to its left, top or bottom IF you are building techlab units like Tanks and Thors. If you don't, these units will not come out of your Factory and your production will not continue. For Barracks 1 square of free space is enough. Starport units can fly There are different ways of arranging your productions facilities. I like to do it this way. If you can't place any further building in your main without disrupting the pathing of your units, simply distribute them over your expansion or your third base. That's totally fine. Of course you should remember to bind your facilities. I don't know if your are feeling more comfortable binding each Barracks, Factory and Starport on a different hotkey or you just haven't thought about having all of them on one single hotkey and using TAB to switch between the types. It's a preference in the end and up to you. Show nested quote +On March 23 2017 13:40 Haole_Catt wrote:Build orders. I'm trying to use SALT, but I'm running into some issues with the orders. Fist is the lack of knowing when to supply. I've run a bunch of this one: http://lotv.spawningtool.com/build/22497/ which is a generic opener but it doesn't show depot timing, and it doesn't have an early siege tank (which I think I need at my level due to getting creamed early by ravagers and stuff that my bio couldn't hold off). Then I tried this: http://lotv.spawningtool.com/build/47278/ it's a hellion into double reaper thing, which I think is for TvT. But that exposed my biggest issue with a lot of build orders. Saying my micro is bad isn't accurate. Saying it doesn't exist is more like it. (It's basically a-move xcancel, move command, rinse repeat I think) So a build order that gives me 4 hellions early is useless to me as I can't use them. That's why I've been going for the macro-until-I-get-a-ball-of-death thing. I am not sure what you mean. It does show the Depot timings. Or did I misunderstand you? In terms of build order: There is no build order without a weakness. You need to focus on one and can even adjust it if you feel or scout certain kinds of aggression. If you want to have a build that inlcudes a tank we can look for one. Show nested quote +On March 23 2017 13:40 Haole_Catt wrote:
So that leaves me with 2 questions. First, how do I practice micro other than trying to milk a 'very easy' AI? Second, what build order will be fairly productive and have me learn while my micro is still just a myth?
Thanks again! Your micro is not as deciding as your macro as of yet. Any build order will suit you as long as you enjoy it. Focus on your macro. Try to micro from time to time even if you fail, but don't overdo it, otherwise your macro will slip. You will make noticeable progress : ) I hope I was not too abstract in answering your questions.
I gotta say I love it when people show good building placement however small flaw in yours! The only time you put a space of 2 is with factories. Why just factories? Because factory units are the only ones that can take up the same depot unit space in the Terran army. Barracks, on the other hand can afford to have only 1 space between them and this is better in my opinion because if people run into your base say a ling runby its easier to defend as you won't be as easily surrounded and if bigger units try to get between your buildings say ultralisks* You kind of have a better way of dealing with them. But hey that is my opinion!
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On March 24 2017 22:44 Ryu3600 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2017 08:08 Phaenoman wrote:On March 23 2017 13:40 Haole_Catt wrote:Hi, thanks for the response and for taking the time to look through that replay. After watching it over and over 30ish times I can see how long those facilities were unused, and how stupid the blind rushes were - basically suicide runs. I also didn't know you could get your worker count like that. I will definitely work on making sure no nudity is permitted at my facilities in the future Since you are open to questions, here are some more: How do you know when to build a supply depot? Build orders often don't seem to specify that. Do build at something like "for every base I build one at 6 under cap so 3 would be 18?" Build orders should have Depot times included most of the time, at least the first couple ones. If you wanna time a Depot then you can start the depot 6 to 8 before your supply cap. However these numbers are not applyable for your first Depots as you will not have the production capabilities anyways, e.g your very first Depot is at 14/15, your second Depot at 22/23. After you have completed your build order just follow the basic rule of building as many Depots as you have bases simultaneously. Order those very SCVs to build Depots right away when they finish the previous ones. You should be fine like that! On March 23 2017 13:40 Haole_Catt wrote:
While many facilities were unused because I suck at multitasking, many were also that way because I failed to hotkey them. I know that part is because I queued them up (I know) and part is because while I ordered 1 but felt I couldn't wait for the SCV to start before going on to something else. Then I either forgot I made them or couldn't find them when I went to hotkey them after. Is there a standard placement recommendation (so I can find them easier if I miss the hotkey)? Everything at Main? or "5 at each" or something? Ok, so let me just tell you my preferences. I am sure there are ppl with other opinions. Look at the picture: I like to prevent chaotic buiding placement in my play, because: - your units can get stuck between buildings, which can be very frustrating
- you know where you placed your buildings, e.g. engineering bays or armories
- important tech structures can be sniped (e.g. with a drop) easily if not placed in a safer spot
Important to know is that the Factory has to have 2 squares of free space to its left, top or bottom IF you are building techlab units like Tanks and Thors. If you don't, these units will not come out of your Factory and your production will not continue. For Barracks 1 square of free space is enough. Starport units can fly There are different ways of arranging your productions facilities. I like to do it this way. If you can't place any further building in your main without disrupting the pathing of your units, simply distribute them over your expansion or your third base. That's totally fine. Of course you should remember to bind your facilities. I don't know if your are feeling more comfortable binding each Barracks, Factory and Starport on a different hotkey or you just haven't thought about having all of them on one single hotkey and using TAB to switch between the types. It's a preference in the end and up to you. On March 23 2017 13:40 Haole_Catt wrote:Build orders. I'm trying to use SALT, but I'm running into some issues with the orders. Fist is the lack of knowing when to supply. I've run a bunch of this one: http://lotv.spawningtool.com/build/22497/ which is a generic opener but it doesn't show depot timing, and it doesn't have an early siege tank (which I think I need at my level due to getting creamed early by ravagers and stuff that my bio couldn't hold off). Then I tried this: http://lotv.spawningtool.com/build/47278/ it's a hellion into double reaper thing, which I think is for TvT. But that exposed my biggest issue with a lot of build orders. Saying my micro is bad isn't accurate. Saying it doesn't exist is more like it. (It's basically a-move xcancel, move command, rinse repeat I think) So a build order that gives me 4 hellions early is useless to me as I can't use them. That's why I've been going for the macro-until-I-get-a-ball-of-death thing. I am not sure what you mean. It does show the Depot timings. Or did I misunderstand you? In terms of build order: There is no build order without a weakness. You need to focus on one and can even adjust it if you feel or scout certain kinds of aggression. If you want to have a build that inlcudes a tank we can look for one. On March 23 2017 13:40 Haole_Catt wrote:
So that leaves me with 2 questions. First, how do I practice micro other than trying to milk a 'very easy' AI? Second, what build order will be fairly productive and have me learn while my micro is still just a myth?
Thanks again! Your micro is not as deciding as your macro as of yet. Any build order will suit you as long as you enjoy it. Focus on your macro. Try to micro from time to time even if you fail, but don't overdo it, otherwise your macro will slip. You will make noticeable progress : ) I hope I was not too abstract in answering your questions. I gotta say I love it when people show good building placement however small flaw in yours! The only time you put a space of 2 is with factories. Why just factories? Because factory units are the only ones that can take up the same depot unit space in the Terran army. Barracks, on the other hand can afford to have only 1 space between them and this is better in my opinion because if people run into your base say a ling runby its easier to defend as you won't be as easily surrounded and if bigger units try to get between your buildings say ultralisks* You kind of have a better way of dealing with them. But hey that is my opinion!
No, I agree with you. In my post I also explain that.
Important to know is that the Factory has to have 2 squares of free space to its left, top or bottom IF you are building techlab units like Tanks and Thors. If you don't, these units will not come out of your Factory and your production will not continue.
For Barracks 1 square of free space is enough. Starport units can fly.
Should have placed my right triple of buildings one square to the left.
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On March 24 2017 23:15 Phaenoman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2017 22:44 Ryu3600 wrote:On March 24 2017 08:08 Phaenoman wrote:On March 23 2017 13:40 Haole_Catt wrote:Hi, thanks for the response and for taking the time to look through that replay. After watching it over and over 30ish times I can see how long those facilities were unused, and how stupid the blind rushes were - basically suicide runs. I also didn't know you could get your worker count like that. I will definitely work on making sure no nudity is permitted at my facilities in the future Since you are open to questions, here are some more: How do you know when to build a supply depot? Build orders often don't seem to specify that. Do build at something like "for every base I build one at 6 under cap so 3 would be 18?" Build orders should have Depot times included most of the time, at least the first couple ones. If you wanna time a Depot then you can start the depot 6 to 8 before your supply cap. However these numbers are not applyable for your first Depots as you will not have the production capabilities anyways, e.g your very first Depot is at 14/15, your second Depot at 22/23. After you have completed your build order just follow the basic rule of building as many Depots as you have bases simultaneously. Order those very SCVs to build Depots right away when they finish the previous ones. You should be fine like that! On March 23 2017 13:40 Haole_Catt wrote:
While many facilities were unused because I suck at multitasking, many were also that way because I failed to hotkey them. I know that part is because I queued them up (I know) and part is because while I ordered 1 but felt I couldn't wait for the SCV to start before going on to something else. Then I either forgot I made them or couldn't find them when I went to hotkey them after. Is there a standard placement recommendation (so I can find them easier if I miss the hotkey)? Everything at Main? or "5 at each" or something? Ok, so let me just tell you my preferences. I am sure there are ppl with other opinions. Look at the picture: I like to prevent chaotic buiding placement in my play, because: - your units can get stuck between buildings, which can be very frustrating
- you know where you placed your buildings, e.g. engineering bays or armories
- important tech structures can be sniped (e.g. with a drop) easily if not placed in a safer spot
Important to know is that the Factory has to have 2 squares of free space to its left, top or bottom IF you are building techlab units like Tanks and Thors. If you don't, these units will not come out of your Factory and your production will not continue. For Barracks 1 square of free space is enough. Starport units can fly There are different ways of arranging your productions facilities. I like to do it this way. If you can't place any further building in your main without disrupting the pathing of your units, simply distribute them over your expansion or your third base. That's totally fine. Of course you should remember to bind your facilities. I don't know if your are feeling more comfortable binding each Barracks, Factory and Starport on a different hotkey or you just haven't thought about having all of them on one single hotkey and using TAB to switch between the types. It's a preference in the end and up to you. On March 23 2017 13:40 Haole_Catt wrote:Build orders. I'm trying to use SALT, but I'm running into some issues with the orders. Fist is the lack of knowing when to supply. I've run a bunch of this one: http://lotv.spawningtool.com/build/22497/ which is a generic opener but it doesn't show depot timing, and it doesn't have an early siege tank (which I think I need at my level due to getting creamed early by ravagers and stuff that my bio couldn't hold off). Then I tried this: http://lotv.spawningtool.com/build/47278/ it's a hellion into double reaper thing, which I think is for TvT. But that exposed my biggest issue with a lot of build orders. Saying my micro is bad isn't accurate. Saying it doesn't exist is more like it. (It's basically a-move xcancel, move command, rinse repeat I think) So a build order that gives me 4 hellions early is useless to me as I can't use them. That's why I've been going for the macro-until-I-get-a-ball-of-death thing. I am not sure what you mean. It does show the Depot timings. Or did I misunderstand you? In terms of build order: There is no build order without a weakness. You need to focus on one and can even adjust it if you feel or scout certain kinds of aggression. If you want to have a build that inlcudes a tank we can look for one. On March 23 2017 13:40 Haole_Catt wrote:
So that leaves me with 2 questions. First, how do I practice micro other than trying to milk a 'very easy' AI? Second, what build order will be fairly productive and have me learn while my micro is still just a myth?
Thanks again! Your micro is not as deciding as your macro as of yet. Any build order will suit you as long as you enjoy it. Focus on your macro. Try to micro from time to time even if you fail, but don't overdo it, otherwise your macro will slip. You will make noticeable progress : ) I hope I was not too abstract in answering your questions. I gotta say I love it when people show good building placement however small flaw in yours! The only time you put a space of 2 is with factories. Why just factories? Because factory units are the only ones that can take up the same depot unit space in the Terran army. Barracks, on the other hand can afford to have only 1 space between them and this is better in my opinion because if people run into your base say a ling runby its easier to defend as you won't be as easily surrounded and if bigger units try to get between your buildings say ultralisks* You kind of have a better way of dealing with them. But hey that is my opinion! No, I agree with you. In my post I also explain that. Show nested quote +Important to know is that the Factory has to have 2 squares of free space to its left, top or bottom IF you are building techlab units like Tanks and Thors. If you don't, these units will not come out of your Factory and your production will not continue.
For Barracks 1 square of free space is enough. Starport units can fly. Should have placed my right triple of buildings one square to the left.
ooh woops my bad I missed that
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What's the proper response to Swarm Hosts when playing Mech? I open with a 2x reactored Factory for a Cyclone-Hellbat push, then transition into Tanks or Thors if I see a Spire. The problem is that I often die to Swarm Hosts soon after that.
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On March 25 2017 05:03 Janko wrote:
What's the proper response to Swarm Hosts when playing Mech? I open with a 2x reactored Factory for a Cyclone-Hellbat push, then transition into Tanks or Thors if I see a Spire. The problem is that I often die to Swarm Hosts soon after that.
I used to open Bat-Clones as well, but I feel like that's just a gamble. If you push and he is prepared you can't even retreat and lose so much gas. If he is not ready you can win instantly. I don't have answer to SH tho, at least not a consistent one.
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On March 25 2017 05:03 Janko wrote:
What's the proper response to Swarm Hosts when playing Mech? I open with a 2x reactored Factory for a Cyclone-Hellbat push, then transition into Tanks or Thors if I see a Spire. The problem is that I often die to Swarm Hosts soon after that.
Cyclones are terrible in in TvZ, they give you an advantage early game but set you up for losing in the midgame. The gas is almost always better invested in tanks and thors. Basically I do not think I have ever won a game past 2-base cheese if I built cyclones.
The only way to defeat Swarm Hosts are hellbats with blueflame plus a few medivacs. The goal is not kill the Swarm Hosts but to have enough hellbats to protect you tanks and thors from taking damage from locust.
Then it depends. If he got lots of Swarm Hosts but the rest of his army in small you want to counter attack. Else it is often bettter to wait and push at 180 supply.
That said, Swarm Hosts are broken vs mech. But until Blizzard does something about Swarm Hosts this is the best we can do.
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EPT
