EPTThe LotV Terran Help Me Thread - Page 58
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Kovzirg
126 Posts
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Avaek
New Zealand49 Posts
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AleXusher
280 Posts
I just recommend: Try new stuff, use raven, tanks, thor, BCs, speedbanshee, longer boosted medivacs, now is the time to test out new stuff, use this time to just experiment and have fun. Find your own playstyle  | ||
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Meei
1 Post
On November 23 2016 17:53 AleXusher wrote: dont worry, it might be a huge mess now, but DK said that he overbuffed quite a bit, especially the SH for instance, and he wants to use this off-season to balance, so give it time, maybe in 1-2 months it will be better balanced already. Imo it will take 1-2 years from now until LotV is as balanced as HotS was and still then much work is needed. I just recommend: Try new stuff, use raven, tanks, thor, BCs, speedbanshee, longer boosted medivacs, now is the time to test out new stuff, use this time to just experiment and have fun. Find your own playstyle Yeah I'm sure thats what people wanna hear. TvZ was fucking hard before and yes Ultras got a small nerf but at the same time Zerg got buffed overall. I haven't played 3.8 but I know for a fact I will hate TvZ even more now (which already was my worst matchup by far). I guess I can start to play greedy slow mech with slow tanks but it's boring as hell. | ||
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bulya
Israel386 Posts
On November 23 2016 17:50 Avaek wrote: mass hydra is fuckin me up, especially since u cant fly siege tanks anymore My main is zerg. I played the test map a lot, and played a few games since the release. Hydra melt to blue flame, and marines can deal with them, as well. The huge difference now is their speed on creep, so make sure they are off creep, because on creep they are as fast as stimmed marines (once they get the speed upgrade). So clear creep no matter whether you play mech or bio, if you play positional mech (tanks and other forms of siege) be ready for swarm hosts (force them to shoot the locusts away from your army), if you play bio and scout hydras focus more on marines, and if you play a more fragile mech with helion/hellbat cylcone, go for blue flame. In other words, some map presence is crucial (clearing creep and keeping swarm hosts and counter attacks away from your sieged army). You have the tools for that now no matter whether you go bio, ground mech or sky mech. Make sure you scout, as your composition and unit ratio is highly dependent on what the zerg play with. (true for both sides) And if you go mech make sure you expand early (I mean third CC). | ||
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Kovzirg
126 Posts
On November 23 2016 21:14 bulya wrote: My main is zerg. I played the test map a lot, and played a few games since the release. Hydra melt to blue flame, and marines can deal with them, as well. The huge difference now is their speed on creep, so make sure they are off creep, because on creep they are as fast as stimmed marines (once they get the speed upgrade). So clear creep no matter whether you play mech or bio, if you play positional mech (tanks and other forms of siege) be ready for swarm hosts (force them to shoot the locusts away from your army), if you play bio and scout hydras focus more on marines, and if you play a more fragile mech with helion/hellbat cylcone, go for blue flame. In other words, some map presence is crucial (clearing creep and keeping swarm hosts and counter attacks away from your sieged army). You have the tools for that now no matter whether you go bio, ground mech or sky mech. Make sure you scout, as your composition and unit ratio is highly dependent on what the zerg play with. (true for both sides) And if you go mech make sure you expand early (I mean third CC). Why would you go marines versus that comp? Not many people play hydra only without mixing in roaches for extra survivability. As well most Zergs are eventually getting Lurkers which absolutely fucking destroy marines. If anything the real counter as bio mid game is just two factory tanks, but the new tank simply isn't as versatile. The Lurker is now a significantly better siege unit overall than the siege tank. | ||
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bulya
Israel386 Posts
On November 23 2016 22:01 Kovzirg wrote: Why would you go marines versus that comp? Not many people play hydra only without mixing in roaches for extra survivability. As well most Zergs are eventually getting Lurkers which absolutely fucking destroy marines. If anything the real counter as bio mid game is just two factory tanks, but the new tank simply isn't as versatile. The Lurker is now a significantly better siege unit overall than the siege tank. Roaches are slow. Playing bio means you want to abuse the mobility of the bio (dropping at multiple locations), so roaches can't get to you unless they are well spread across the zerg bases, and even if so you can clear all the creep. One main buff of the hydra is its mobility on creep so it can be a counter of the mobility of the bio similarly to what mutas do. But roaches cant be brought with them that fast, lings at best. Here I'm theorycrafting as I didn't play enough games on the new patch, yet. But if the zerg go hydra then it may turn to something like MMMM vs MLB with hydras instead of mutas (but MLB may be back as well now). | ||
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KT_Elwood
Germany1202 Posts
I think I pass on 3.8. Any solution? | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
On November 24 2016 00:26 KT_Elwood wrote: Hydra is killing me right now. Medevacs get picked off, they seem to win 1:3 vs marines, marauders suck, they can almost ignore SiegeTanks because of the 10% Attackspeed nerf T_T I think I pass on 3.8. Any solution? Every Terran I've played against either didn't make tanks at all or made a really pitiful amount that didn't make a difference. The kind you'd make for tankivac pressure. Now is the season for shelling. If I'm looking at two tanks and some marines then I'm going to go around with mutas and lings and attack into it. But if you have 4, or 6, then I'm not comfortable. So that's my observation so far. Terrans are still making a shitton of widow mines and not enough tanks. | ||
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MrGrizzle
7 Posts
On November 24 2016 00:32 Probe1 wrote: Every Terran I've played against either didn't make tanks at all or made a really pitiful amount that didn't make a difference. The kind you'd make for tankivac pressure. Now is the season for shelling. If I'm looking at two tanks and some marines then I'm going to go around with mutas and lings and attack into it. But if you have 4, or 6, then I'm not comfortable. So that's my observation so far. Terrans are still making a shitton of widow mines and not enough tanks. I agree with this, I just won a game vs a Hydraing Z (same level as me, low diamond, so obviously there are many other inefficiencies at play). I had 6rax 2 fact 1 star on 4 base vs Z 5 base and I just wore him down. When you have 4 tanks they really do a good job if they don't get flanked and the MMM can tank in front of them. | ||
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KT_Elwood
Germany1202 Posts
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MrGrizzle
7 Posts
On November 24 2016 03:13 KT_Elwood wrote: I literally had made only tanks and hellions to buffer, It was a split map scencario on overgrowth If you had the same supply and same upgrades I really can't see pure hydra losing to pure tank/hellion. Unless he got an amazing surround or caught you unsieged. | ||
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Kovzirg
126 Posts
On November 23 2016 17:53 AleXusher wrote: dont worry, it might be a huge mess now, but DK said that he overbuffed quite a bit, especially the SH for instance, and he wants to use this off-season to balance, so give it time, maybe in 1-2 months it will be better balanced already. Imo it will take 1-2 years from now until LotV is as balanced as HotS was and still then much work is needed. I just recommend: Try new stuff, use raven, tanks, thor, BCs, speedbanshee, longer boosted medivacs, now is the time to test out new stuff, use this time to just experiment and have fun. Find your own playstyle It's so fucking dumb though. You don't find actual balance by making insane changes. Like I don't understand their balancing strategy and never have. If you want actual balance begin making damages with decimals like they do with movement speed. The current strategy is to take huge leaps in one direction then when that isn't working out to make another huge leap in another random direction. Do you really believe they are any closer to balance after this patch then they were a few days ago? Absolutely not. | ||
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Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
On November 24 2016 00:32 Probe1 wrote: Every Terran I've played against either didn't make tanks at all or made a really pitiful amount that didn't make a difference. The kind you'd make for tankivac pressure. Now is the season for shelling. If I'm looking at two tanks and some marines then I'm going to go around with mutas and lings and attack into it. But if you have 4, or 6, then I'm not comfortable. So that's my observation so far. Terrans are still making a shitton of widow mines and not enough tanks. That is good advice! I have played with more tanks and it did wonders. Also, avoiding Whirlwind is a good idea imo. | ||
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Frudgey
Canada3367 Posts
Shout out the Zerg players for the responses - seems like Tanks are quite a bit scarier now. I need to figure out some new build orders though, considering how it's a new patch and all. It's awesome to hear it from your guys perspective. Thanks for posting! Also, what are people's impression of the new cyclone? Admittedly I haven't been able to fiddle around with them a whole bunch, but I'm wondering if I like the old cyclone better. I think my problem is that I used the old cyclone quite a bit so I got used to it and I just haven't logged in the games to try out the new cyclones. Some initial thoughts though - - I'm really unsure how good they are in straight up fights. They seem okay? I just literally have no idea. I'm hoping someone has used them more than I and has a more concrete opinion on them. - Their ground to air attack seems pretty underwhelming. Maybe they're supposed to be like this considering how it can be easier to mass them (maybe?), but right now they feel like a wet noodle. If I'm not mistaken they only do 160 spell damage over 14 seconds, where previously they did 400 (+400 if you had the - Related to the previous point, going cyclone seems to make you pretty vulnerable to air. For this reason, I've been reluctant to cyclones in the early game, but it might just be that I'm not trying hard enough. | ||
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bretfart
114 Posts
Protoss should almost always open stargate because early cyclone pressure is tough to hold. Cyclones just wreck stalkers, especially with the upgrade. Plus cyclones are very meaty. It takes quite a while to kill them. Put some thors into the mix for anti air. THors are now prioritizing air and their anti-air gun got buffed significantly. So an army consisting of cyclones, hellbats (to buffer) and thors is very scary in every matchup | ||
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AbouSV
Germany1278 Posts
Dark just beat cyclone hellbat with ling ravagers (not engaging with lings unless in a very good position relative to hellbats), and it seemed to work quite well. | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
On November 24 2016 19:19 AbouSV wrote: The weakness of cyclone seems to be its range. Dark just beat cyclone hellbat with ling ravagers (not engaging with lings unless in a very good position relative to hellbats), and it seemed to work quite well. I posted a clip of the exciting part in the Zerg thread. The engagement was amazing but that was only part of the story. His opponent was building an army off of 1 reactored factory and already had made a 3rd CC. Dark got to two base saturation, completely stopped droning, and made straight ling ravager in response to his opponents opener. After getting an amazing snipe on two hellions at mid map next to a watchtower, he went full in on roaches and walked across the map. Dark was absolutely "all in". If he hadn't gotten damage then he would have been done for with his opponents third CC done and no drones at his third. But he scouted that production consisted of a reactored factory and not two (which he was probably scouting for since there's the all in variant of two reactored factories) and decided to go full on army production and end it there. His opponent did scout that there were no drones at Darks 3rd. That would have been a challenging read to make one day into the patch but the information was there - my opponent is putting nothing into economy. Am I safe if he's going to all in? Obviously he wasn't safe since Dark did all in with some fantastic micro. Had his opponent had another factory pumping siege tanks, a slightly slower 3rd CC, or kept his cyclones behind the hellbats but not separate from them, then Dark would have been in a very ugly spot. I think it's a potential build but it's something you won't see very much outside of high level play. Dark had to instantly make a read on a single reactored factory and make a decision then follow it with top tier micro, or none of it would have worked. The cyclones range was an important factor in why it worked but it doesn't necessarily mean cyclone hellbat openers are bad. | ||
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MrGrizzle
7 Posts
Cyclones are good vs stalkers, not vs much else, but toss frequently goes a lot of stalkers Hellbats are a good mineral sink and can transform for harass, although I haven't done that enough yet Tanks are difficult to get to work, I think I need to get better engagements but that will come with time. Libs are strong, as always, and you can have better upgrades for them than you would with bio builds, but extremely gas heavy, gas you want to be spending on siege tanks too. If they go skytoss, whats a good answer? Some mixture of thors and vikings? Maybe libs. Widow mines might have a place, banshees? Dare I say it... BCs now they wont just get fedback. Their range is still kinda short but yamato could potentially be strong and I want to do some cool teleport moves. I'm sorry these are just random thoughts I'm putting out mostly, would like to hear from someone else who has been trying to get TvP mech to work post-patch. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2665 Posts
On November 25 2016 03:33 MrGrizzle wrote: Has anyone got a BO for TvP mech yet? I'm starting to play it and it's really fun but it's tough getting the right composition. Not won a single game yet. Advice would also be appreciated. Cyclones are good vs stalkers, not vs much else, but toss frequently goes a lot of stalkers Hellbats are a good mineral sink and can transform for harass, although I haven't done that enough yet Tanks are difficult to get to work, I think I need to get better engagements but that will come with time. Libs are strong, as always, and you can have better upgrades for them than you would with bio builds, but extremely gas heavy, gas you want to be spending on siege tanks too. If they go skytoss, whats a good answer? Some mixture of thors and vikings? Maybe libs. Widow mines might have a place, banshees? Dare I say it... BCs now they wont just get fedback. Their range is still kinda short but yamato could potentially be strong and I want to do some cool teleport moves. I'm sorry these are just random thoughts I'm putting out mostly, would like to hear from someone else who has been trying to get TvP mech to work post-patch. BCs are good vs air, yamato the shit out of them and blink out if things get dire. I have more problems with early game, defending oracles/phoenix/WP is next to imposible with new cyclones, thors are too expensive and vikings just don't cut it, the only way I see is getting turrets but that slows down any attack you try to do. | ||
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