EPTThe LotV Terran Help Me Thread - Page 55
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Damien
Brazil131 Posts
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On September 23 2016 12:06 Nightmarjoo wrote: Mech is naturally weak against air power currently, so it's important that even if you aren't using a port with your build you make at least 3 ports (at least 1 reactor) and an extra armory getting ship attack upgrades. If you're completely unprepared when he gets carriers out you'll die. If you have the infrastructure and upgrades in place you can make a sufficient anti-carrier force in time to not die. If you can't maintain map control as a meching terran, protoss will have the opportunity to make carriers when he otherwise would not since you may not be able to punish the expensive and time-consuming tech switch. If you get in a strong position you can beat him to t4 tech and swap out scvs for extra ocs (mules) and use the supply lead to make battlecruisers. EMP + Yamato will allow you trade effectively with a Carrier army if you can get there. This requires multiple position-controlling PFs + turrets. Aren't liberators a more cost effective way of dealing with carriers than BC's? If the guy adds tempests you can't even reach the guy to yamato. It's also way easier to get up to a decent lib count with reactors than transitioning to BCs Just tested 72 supply of carriers vs 72 supply of libs and the interceptors barely have time to deploy and all die to splash Obviously you'd still want vikings but if the guy only makes carriers, rushing mass libs first is probably better imo And going bio is still preferred as it will probably kill them before they get enough carriers anyway. On September 23 2016 22:03 Damien wrote: Hey guys, how do you load marines on medivac when surrounded? When I try to shift medivacs and fly over the units, sometimes I lost a lot because they don't load. Do exist some special technic to do this? You just need to fly the medivac over your clump of units so they're all in range to pick up, then box them all/select the control group, and right click on the medivac | ||
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Damien
Brazil131 Posts
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On September 23 2016 22:44 Damien wrote: Do you right click all the medivacs one after another or do you shift click them? No don't shift click | ||
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Damien
Brazil131 Posts
Select army right click 2 medivacs to load them up then shift+s so the army won't follow the medivacs after they're full select all medivacs and use drop hotkey on the other side of the map to separate the loaded medivacs from the empty ones (I was watching a Terran, probably Demuslim, stream one time and he said to do this) rebind the main army rebind the drops and actually tell them where to drop It was needed to press S after all the shift commands (press S while still holding shift). So you can load all the medivacs without wait to fill in (all medivacs will colect units at the same time). | ||
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On September 23 2016 22:54 Damien wrote: Oh! I already know what was wrong. I read it on a tread right now: Select army right click 2 medivacs to load them up then shift+s so the army won't follow the medivacs after they're full select all medivacs and use drop hotkey on the other side of the map to separate the loaded medivacs from the empty ones (I was watching a Terran, probably Demuslim, stream one time and he said to do this) rebind the main army rebind the drops and actually tell them where to drop It was needed to press S after all the shift commands (press S while still holding shift). So you can load all the medivacs without wait to fill in (all medivacs will colect units at the same time). Still no need to shift+s though | ||
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Damien
Brazil131 Posts
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On September 23 2016 23:01 Damien wrote: When I won't shift, only one medivac - that one which I'm right clicking - is able to pick up them. : / Not sure i understand. If you have your army selected, right click on one medivac, then a second one, then hit S, it accomplishes the same thing you described without shift right? | ||
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Elentos
55571 Posts
On September 23 2016 23:01 Damien wrote: When I won't shift, only one medivac - that one which I'm right clicking - is able to pick up them. : / You have to click all your medivacs quickly without shift. If you shift queue movements, your units will first run to a full medivac to do nothing and then run to the next hoping there's still room. And possibly die on the way there. | ||
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
On September 23 2016 22:36 ArtyK wrote: Aren't liberators a more cost effective way of dealing with carriers than BC's? If the guy adds tempests you can't even reach the guy to yamato. It's also way easier to get up to a decent lib count with reactors than transitioning to BCs Just tested 72 supply of carriers vs 72 supply of libs and the interceptors barely have time to deploy and all die to splash Obviously you'd still want vikings but if the guy only makes carriers, rushing mass libs first is probably better imo And going bio is still preferred as it will probably kill them before they get enough carriers anyway. Not gonna lie I've literally never fought carriers with liberators before. I dunno if that only works as the carriers are launching interceptors or all the time. The only reasoned I mentioned bcs is because he was talking about meching. In WoL a style of tvp mech I was familiar with used mech as a means to harass protoss while converting scvs into ocs and making a no man's land of pfs, turrets, and some minimum mech army supply for the purpose of defending until you get a ghost/bc/raven army that beats any protoss army in a straight-up engagement. BCs were good in that scenario because as long as you got EMPs off protoss had no way to overcome your burst damage, and the ghost/bc remained strong vs whatever they remaxed on as well. So I would never go bcs (at least this patch, fingers crossed for next patch~) with a normal bio composition, but I figured that adding them into an endgame composition still made sense. But obviously liberators are amazing vs protoss' ground army, so if they shut down carriers by erasing interceptors then yeah why not ghost/mech/liberator instead of bothering with bcs (if meching at all)-- much easier and cheaper to accomplish. | ||
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On September 24 2016 04:50 Nightmarjoo wrote: Not gonna lie I've literally never fought carriers with liberators before. I dunno if that only works as the carriers are launching interceptors or all the time. The only reasoned I mentioned bcs is because he was talking about meching. In WoL a style of tvp mech I was familiar with used mech as a means to harass protoss while converting scvs into ocs and making a no man's land of pfs, turrets, and some minimum mech army supply for the purpose of defending until you get a ghost/bc/raven army that beats any protoss army in a straight-up engagement. BCs were good in that scenario because as long as you got EMPs off protoss had no way to overcome your burst damage, and the ghost/bc remained strong vs whatever they remaxed on as well. So I would never go bcs (at least this patch, fingers crossed for next patch~) with a normal bio composition, but I figured that adding them into an endgame composition still made sense. But obviously liberators are amazing vs protoss' ground army, so if they shut down carriers by erasing interceptors then yeah why not ghost/mech/liberator instead of bothering with bcs (if meching at all)-- much easier and cheaper to accomplish. I mean i mentionned liberators specifically because he plays mech, i added that bio was still the go to strat to counter carriers but i think libs are still better than BCs. (not that BCs are better than any other unit in the game anyway) I play bio too but while reading your post i was like, would libs work? Loaded test map and was super surprised at how much the interceptors got owned | ||
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DrDevice
Canada132 Posts
On September 23 2016 23:36 ArtyK wrote: you have your army selected, right click on one medivac, then a second one, then hit S Yup this is the correct advice, what I do and what I think basically everyone does. After that u can control group the medivacs u loaded and/or reassign the control group for your main army depending how you like to use control groups. One thing that makes it even easier when you are expecting to have to do this during a fight, like when doing the common 2 medivacs stim build in tvz, is to have your marines and medivacs on seperate control groups before the fight starts. This way you don't have to box or click to select units, which can make it a bit faster. For example when I move out with my first 2 medivacs in tvz I put my 16 marines on group 2 and the 2 medivacs on group 3. This makes picking up your marines trivial, no boxing. Just hit 3, move command your medivacs over top of your marines, hit 2 and rightclick the medivacs. This has other micro advantages too, like pulling back medivacs out of queen fire without your marines having to stop shooting or you having to click the medivac(s). | ||
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geokilla
Canada8246 Posts
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AleXusher
280 Posts
On September 23 2016 20:48 Nightmarjoo wrote: 1. don't let them get all of that 2. ghosts literally beat all of those if used well in conjunction with any or all of the following: proper control, turret count/placement, pf support, mine support, liberator support, marines/hellions/thors/vikings/ravens/whatever else you want to make. If you're looking for an easy 1a solution you're playing the wrong game. It's tough to control vs all of that just as it's tough for them to control all of that against you. Really the hardest part is figuring out what to prioritize your snipes on, which will be dependent on what you have to support your ghost and in what numbers. Infestors are worthless once you EMP them. Once you remove them you can use Cloak. If you're fighting away from turrets 1. you're wrong 2. snipe overseers first. If you have liberators let the ultras run through your turret/mine/pf gauntlet chasing your ground army into liberation zones. If you have vikings don't let them die to corruptors (they can't sit over turrets and mines forever). If you have ravens try and seeker their corruptors or broodlords (I'm guessing the former is more effective, depending on your numbers, but they can't fly the latter into your units for friendly fire). If you don't have turrets and/or mines you're wrong. I don't recommend thors right now, but I'm guessing they'll be useful next patch. I don't recommend hellions, but if you have thors you can sit the hellions behind them to kill lings and broodlings (marines are better). Remember to spread your ghosts and split them up. You want an advanced element to EMP infestors and get free snipes off (especially on overseers). You want a flanking element so that whichever direction they chase you're landing free snipes. Never group all of your ghosts because then any fungals, bane splash, ultra aoe, and mine/tank friendly fire aoe will all cancel your snipes. Broodlords really aren't that scary, and will be even less scary next patch. Marines (with upgrades) eat them alive. Only ultras and infestors stop the marines from feasting on them. So once you EMP the infestors you just have to find a way to kill the ultras. Honestly with the right static defense, composition, and control, you don't even necessarily need a lot of ghosts (I would have some no matter what for infestors though). Odds are of all the things I listed what you were most lacking was static defense. Without turrets and/or mines your air power is food for their corruptor clump, which puts the onus entirely on your remaining ground army and snipes to clean up a massive endgame army. Furthermore the turrets physically block the movement and mobility of ultras, which even if air control doesn't matter anymore allows your ground army to more effectively kite and outmaneuver to set up easy snipes. The tricky part there is knowing when and where to set up static defense. You can use your own replays to find answers for that. Look at your every endgame engagement. First, reevaluate whether or not you engaged zerg or if they engaged you. If it's the former you can probably safely determine you fucked up and made a bad decision to engage the enemy when you weren't prepared. If it's the latter you should question either why you were in that position or why you weren't ready for them. Use the scenarios in your replays to reverse engineer when and where you needed to have built static defense to support your army against the lategame and endgame zerg army. Then use that information to predict when and where you need to make static d in future games. Ultimately though 100% your real problem happened way earlier in the game, and you can avoid this scenario by cleaning up other shortcomings. alright then thank you  So... on Frost for example, i need to bunker up and basically play it like HotS mech with the turtle style if i don't manage to kill Zerg before Ultralisk and it is an even game? If so, ok, but it would be sad, i tried to micro my heart out, but if i need PF, Turrets etc etc then that automatically means, turtle, in like 95% of all cases, no? | ||
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Damien
Brazil131 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
You aren't necessarily turtling, you're just still taking as efficient engagements as possible. That becomes really hard once they get corruptor/ultra, so you have to play more conservatively until you can negate at least one of the two. You only really need to turtle long enough to get some turrets out (and maybe a centrally located PF). The idea is you kite the zerg army and fall back into your strong position, then attack them again. The easiest time to get snipes off is when they're falling back. So your goal is fighting to obtain a more advanced position to fortify from which to strike at the zerg. All the while you're still looking to drop them and/or get free creep tumor kills elsewhere. If their corruptors are occupied preventing your liberator force from advancing past your turrets they can't patrol for drops. If the corruptors leave to chase drops you move your liberators up and build turrets under or behind them (if on the edge of creep). Your ground army then advances past your liberators to do whatever damage it can, then it retreats under the liberators and through your turrets. If zerg chases they run into mines and liberation zones, if they run they get sniped, if they do nothing you do damage to units/creep/expos as is possible. | ||
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Damien
Brazil131 Posts
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Lyyna
France776 Posts
On September 24 2016 04:50 Nightmarjoo wrote: The only reasoned I mentioned bcs is because he was talking about meching. In WoL a style of tvp mech I was familiar with used mech as a means to harass protoss while converting scvs into ocs and making a no man's land of pfs, turrets, and some minimum mech army supply for the purpose of defending until you get a ghost/bc/raven army that beats any protoss army in a straight-up engagement. BCs were good in that scenario because as long as you got EMPs off protoss had no way to overcome your burst damage, and the ghost/bc remained strong vs whatever they remaxed on as well. That style sounds very familiar to me ! To deal with carriers today, a nice option to remember is mines. They can deal with a huge number of interceptors very fast, are fast to produce, very cheap compared to the alternatives. Some vikings behind them with a couple of thors and you can clean up the carriers fast. They are also decent against every other protoss units. Other options: Libs : very random. Sometimes interceptors will clump, sometimes they won't. And they suck against tempests Thors (mass) : kinda decent before there are too many (10+) carriers, especially if you have an uppgrade advantage. Becomes shit if he has a zeal wall, immortals, or tempests Pure vikings : lol. BCs : The 'ideal' option, but today, it is simply too hard to get a decent BC transition that can match his carrier force. Overall, carriers are easier to deal with that tempests, since you can mass uppgraded turrets and get into a nice position, and wait for him, rather than being sieged from 3 screens away and baited into storms | ||
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SpecKROELLchen
Germany151 Posts
I feel like there are over 4 openings leading to this allin. Even a late gas one. I am short from just starting with 4 helions again. But do you have any tips for holding it using this particular strat? Edit: Okay i watched some of my replays, i guess at like min 3 i have to sacrifice reaper to get the information. can this be confirmed? | ||
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Tee1990
20 Posts
I am tier 1 master on eu and i have stop using the 211 build because i feel like it needs flawless execution to be worth it. I am now doing 2 hellion into 2 widow mine drop into 2 more hellions followed by a lib which has been working pretty good | ||
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