On July 12 2016 20:23 MockHamill wrote: If you play TvZ and Zerg stays on two base and you scout a Roach Warren how do you react?
In my experience there are one of 2 possible all-ins coming. Either 1) Roach/Ravager OR 2) Nydus worm
If it is Roach/Ravager you need marine, tank, banshee to kill of the attack. Liberators are useless due to how easy they are killed of by ravagers.
If it is Nydus you need marine, tank, liberator. Banshee is completely useless in this scenario due to all the queens running into your base.
So how do you know which attack is coming if you do not scout the nydus network? If you built banshee against Nydus you have lost the game. If you build liberators against Roach/Ravager you have most likely lost the game.
Is there any solution to this?
Build a medivac first. You need it vs roach ravager to micro your tank and its good vs nydus because it keeps your scvs/marines alive longer. After the medivac you can build liberators.
if you really want to know what's coming you can scan and check for gas/lair but i would build a medivac first regardless.
On July 12 2016 20:23 MockHamill wrote: If you play TvZ and Zerg stays on two base and you scout a Roach Warren how do you react?
In my experience there are one of 2 possible all-ins coming. Either 1) Roach/Ravager OR 2) Nydus worm
If it is Roach/Ravager you need marine, tank, banshee to kill of the attack. Liberators are useless due to how easy they are killed of by ravagers.
If it is Nydus you need marine, tank, liberator. Banshee is completely useless in this scenario due to all the queens running into your base.
So how do you know which attack is coming if you do not scout the nydus network? If you built banshee against Nydus you have lost the game. If you build liberators against Roach/Ravager you have most likely lost the game.
Is there any solution to this?
If it's roach ravager he won't have a lair, so it's pretty easy to distinguish, but hey can still do it with a third.
Do you open reaper? Keeping it alive and scouting later on to see if hes still mining gas on 2 base will save you a scan. If not i don't know the exact timing but you can probably figure out when to scan by watching the replay.
Like Charoisaur said though, a medivac is better in most cases so your tank isn't useless, and by the time you get a banshee you could have 2 medivacs instead. The ideal way of holding RR is probably with extra bunkers at the front, constant tank prod and scvs ready to repair when he attacks.
If you suspect nydus you want at least one bunker if not more in your main protecting your production, and marines spread around to see it as soon as possible. I've seen pros build a bunker right next to it and sending scvs to surround it, hopefully with the help of tanks you will kill it faster than he can transfuse if the guy fails
I feel like queen drops with OL speed is much scarier because you won't see a lair and it comes quicker but its map dependent. In this case a lone evo chamber early on is a big tell of course. And if you see a lair AND 4 gas it's most likely 2 base muta which is suicidal from the zerg imo.
anyone really found way to make mech work vs lategame hive units?
I am having real trouble combating vipers based composition or broodlords- Thors don't sem to kill vipers fast enough before it can blanket binding cloud because of firing delay, and broodlord are very dealable in lower numbers but once it gets combined with banelings or in larger numbers (to kill your hellbat buffer), it becomes nightmarish to manage.
And again today, first alive got killed by dt opening then vs trust against disruptor opening. There are too many pressure builds protoss can pull without risking build order losses. And i do not ask for help holding these because i know there is no simple answer against these builds but scouting, positioning and basically some that he isn`t faking anything. Its just much harder to defend than to pull off. But what i want to know is how is your experience with 1 base builds as T vs these builds? Usually i play standard because i normally thought that this makes you better over time but since 2 years HotS random allins from p and now them being even more safe after pulling these things off (which are not allins anymore) i think i have to change my mindset. Im midmaster but have negative win percentage vs p ( it know it is not the race p but me, but do you know some nice 1 base builds or guides?)
1 base marine tank liberator with one medivac. On the second tank jump on them and bring 3-4 scvs to reapkr and bunker plus turret if needs be. You leap frog everything forward as you push and never let the expensive units die for nothing.
Normally I go 1/1/1 drop play into a 3 rax with one reactor and a tech lab to get stim. You can get your ad ons after you drop. It holds cheese fairly well since you can build anything to stop it. It is an allin though and if they scout it theycan prepare accordingly to beat you.
Anyway I am away from home at the moment but this build has worked for me all the way up to gm players. Though it isnt easy because guessing what a protoss is doing with an scv takes a lot of knowledge of builds and thr meta.
On July 14 2016 17:58 jinjin5000 wrote: anyone really found way to make mech work vs lategame hive units?
I am having real trouble combating vipers based composition or broodlords- Thors don't sem to kill vipers fast enough before it can blanket binding cloud because of firing delay, and broodlord are very dealable in lower numbers but once it gets combined with banelings or in larger numbers (to kill your hellbat buffer), it becomes nightmarish to manage.
Thor viking liberator with a few tanks and hellbats is ok vs hive tech but you have to play very agressive so the zerg can't split the map with 1000 spores and spines. Mass thors actually beat broodlords as long as he hasn't massed static defense below them so you just have to constantly trade and attack at multiple locations to prevent that from happening.
On July 15 2016 00:11 raff100 wrote: Guys any advice on defending 3 rax reaper in tvt? I feel quite lost
If you are doing a gas first build and send the 17th supply scv straight to the opponents base. You can see the gas and a lack of barracks and orbital command, indicating a proxy rax build of reaper or marauder(meaning reaper since nobody goes Marauder). Immediately cancel the marine and build a tech lab and get a marauder of your own with concussive shell. Continue as normal with a 1/1/1 but dont interrupt the marauder and hellion production for the starport. You need all the units you can get.
You will probably need a few scvs to tank and to help repair the hellion, good micro is required. The marauder will stop reapers from escaping and you can kill them meaning they cant snowball easily and as long as you dont tank grenade shots reapers arent going to do much.
You can also use the scouting scv to proxy a banshee and marine tank followup should deny them an expansion or outright kill them.
On July 15 2016 00:11 raff100 wrote: Guys any advice on defending 3 rax reaper in tvt? I feel quite lost
I have found that the easiest solution is to open 2-1-1. Constant marine production from 2 barracks, add a bunker at one of the places where reapers can jump in, produce 1-2 tanks. You do not need the starport during the attack, but is good to have if you counter attack.
The advantage of going 2-1-1 instead of 1-1-1 is that the micro requirements gets much lower.
Even though I always use mech in TvT I still open 2-1-1 just because it makes it easier to defend cheese.
So I just lost to the most stupid strat ever... Turtle into Mass Ravens. I originally planned to take it easy and macro up a Bio Tank army but it seems Mass Ravens are better than Bio Tank? Or I just have awful control, which I do with my units.
What's up my terran brethren ? I'd like your input on the build I've been doing lately vsZ. I think it's pretty good, but there are probably ways to improve it. For the record, I'm currently diamond 2 on EU.
The initial idea: Open super greedy, and do a hard hitting timing attack before the Hive.
The build: - I open rack-gaz and go 1 reaper into reactor - I expand, and add a factory with the next 100 gas - I then build my 3rd CC, still with only one reactored barracks and a factory. Take a second and 3rd gas after the 3rd CC is dropped down. I always get 1 tank for safety, and then decide on wheter to continue producing them or not based on what I scout with the reaper. - I add double ebays, a startport and a second rack (with techlab to start stim) as money allows. I'm currently not sure on what to prioritize (medivacs ? stim ? upgrades ?) - Once 3rd base is up and established: add a second factory and lots of racks with reactors and go marine/tank/medivacs.
General gameplan: - Use the reaper to scout if I have to produce more than 1 tank and/or build bunkers or not - Use marine drops to put light pressure on the zerg while macro'ing at home (delay his 4th, limit creep spread, etc) - Once 2-2 bio and +1 mech is complete, I do a big timing attack with several tanks, lots of marines and medivacs. This should hit before the Hive is started or around the time it starts. This push can kill the Zerg, but should at least allow you to trade well and get his 4th... Meanwhile, you can take your 4th, start 3-3 and start adding a second starport (just in case the Z manages to get to ultras). Beware, as far as bio goes you'll still have mostly marines. Maybe switch a few racks from reactor to techlab.
My questions: - I haven't faced much early pressure with this (no queen ling drops, only a handful of early roach/ravager pushes, no 2base mutas). Do this build seem robust to you ? I have an early tank, but the medivac only comes out quite a bit later (I generally start stim before the medivacs, starting to think I should do it the other way around). And with the 3CC double upgrades reminiscent of HOTS, this leaves me with a low amount of units. I generally add a simcity on my nat as it helps a lot against roach pushes. - This build also does not give you any opportunity to put pressure on the zerg before medivacs are out (and even then, stim is still super late) so you have to be super greedy or else the Z can outgreed you and you won't be able to do shit about it. Any thoughts of little tweaks I could add to put some pressure earlier on the Z ?
On July 15 2016 11:34 geokilla wrote: So I just lost to the most stupid strat ever... Turtle into Mass Ravens. I originally planned to take it easy and macro up a Bio Tank army but it seems Mass Ravens are better than Bio Tank? Or I just have awful control, which I do with my units.
I think the answer to such a build should not be to stay at home and macro up, but to try and contain him as much as possible. He'll need lots of gas for his ravens, so if you can manage to delay his 3rd and not allow a 4th, even if you trade badly you should be able to win it...
On July 15 2016 18:42 LoneYoShi wrote: What's up my terran brethren ? I'd like your input on the build I've been doing lately vsZ. I think it's pretty good, but there are probably ways to improve it. For the record, I'm currently diamond 2 on EU.
The initial idea: Open super greedy, and do a hard hitting timing attack before the Hive.
The build: - I open rack-gaz and go 1 reaper into reactor - I expand, and add a factory with the next 100 gas - I then build my 3rd CC, still with only one reactored barracks and a factory. Take a second and 3rd gas after the 3rd CC is dropped down. I always get 1 tank for safety, and then decide on wheter to continue producing them or not based on what I scout with the reaper. - I add double ebays, a startport and a second rack (with techlab to start stim) as money allows. I'm currently not sure on what to prioritize (medivacs ? stim ? upgrades ?) - Once 3rd base is up and established: add a second factory and lots of racks with reactors and go marine/tank/medivacs.
General gameplan: - Use the reaper to scout if I have to produce more than 1 tank and/or build bunkers or not - Use marine drops to put light pressure on the zerg while macro'ing at home (delay his 4th, limit creep spread, etc) - Once 2-2 bio and +1 mech is complete, I do a big timing attack with several tanks, lots of marines and medivacs. This should hit before the Hive is started or around the time it starts. This push can kill the Zerg, but should at least allow you to trade well and get his 4th... Meanwhile, you can take your 4th, start 3-3 and start adding a second starport (just in case the Z manages to get to ultras). Beware, as far as bio goes you'll still have mostly marines. Maybe switch a few racks from reactor to techlab.
My questions: - I haven't faced much early pressure with this (no queen ling drops, only a handful of early roach/ravager pushes, no 2base mutas). Do this build seem robust to you ? I have an early tank, but the medivac only comes out quite a bit later (I generally start stim before the medivacs, starting to think I should do it the other way around). And with the 3CC double upgrades reminiscent of HOTS, this leaves me with a low amount of units. I generally add a simcity on my nat as it helps a lot against roach pushes. - This build also does not give you any opportunity to put pressure on the zerg before medivacs are out (and even then, stim is still super late) so you have to be super greedy or else the Z can outgreed you and you won't be able to do shit about it. Any thoughts of little tweaks I could add to put some pressure earlier on the Z ?
. Anti-Hive timing off 3CC is not a new concept and aLive shows you can harass plenty while being able to hit a strong timing. If you want to be more passive and focus on macro so you don't screw it up that's definitely an option since meditanks and optional liberators can do quite well defensively.
Hi where can I find some build orders? I just came back after hots and im lost on what to do. Was Masters before in KR and now currently diamond 2. All ive been doing is reaper opening like for every race. And then for tvt tvz the usual marine tank medivac and tvp bio. Can someone help me on the meta, composition, etc
I dont watch the pro scene either so all ive been doing is the usual since hots can anyone update me please. I know there is a search function but its kinda hard unlike before please help.
On July 17 2016 21:06 Ace1123 wrote: Hi where can I find some build orders? I just came back after hots and im lost on what to do. Was Masters before in KR and now currently diamond 2. All ive been doing is reaper opening like for every race. And then for tvt tvz the usual marine tank medivac and tvp bio. Can someone help me on the meta, composition, etc
I dont watch the pro scene either so all ive been doing is the usual since hots can anyone update me please. I know there is a search function but its kinda hard unlike before please help.
You can find a lot of replays with buildorders etc here:
On July 17 2016 21:06 Ace1123 wrote: Hi where can I find some build orders? I just came back after hots and im lost on what to do. Was Masters before in KR and now currently diamond 2. All ive been doing is reaper opening like for every race. And then for tvt tvz the usual marine tank medivac and tvp bio. Can someone help me on the meta, composition, etc
I dont watch the pro scene either so all ive been doing is the usual since hots can anyone update me please. I know there is a search function but its kinda hard unlike before please help.
You can find a lot of replays with buildorders etc here:
Thanks! What is usually the lategame composition lately vs all race? It seems marine tank medivac is kinda weak im getting rekt by ravager roach comp i know im bad tho still getting back.
Also is liberator used now like as main?
And is tank now transported in siege inside medivac? As i still put them in siege mode and it is kinda slow i think.
On July 17 2016 21:06 Ace1123 wrote: Hi where can I find some build orders? I just came back after hots and im lost on what to do. Was Masters before in KR and now currently diamond 2. All ive been doing is reaper opening like for every race. And then for tvt tvz the usual marine tank medivac and tvp bio. Can someone help me on the meta, composition, etc
I dont watch the pro scene either so all ive been doing is the usual since hots can anyone update me please. I know there is a search function but its kinda hard unlike before please help.
You can find a lot of replays with buildorders etc here:
Thanks! What is usually the lategame composition lately vs all race? It seems marine tank medivac is kinda weak im getting rekt by ravager roach comp i know im bad tho still getting back.
Also is liberator used now like as main?
And is tank now transported in siege inside medivac? As i still put them in siege mode and it is kinda slow i think.
Pls help
you shouldn't lose with marine tank medivac against roach ravager if you micro well unless your opponent has a huge supply advantage. about lategame compositions... it's better to not get in lategame as terran and just win with a huge midgame timing with bio tank/mine with a few liberators.
EPT
