|
On June 30 2016 10:51 geokilla wrote:
How do I defend against Gas first TvT builds? Whoever goes that build in TvT against me means I auto lose. It's always the same scenario. Opponent goes gas first into Marine-Tankivacs-Vikings. Then they camp outside my Natural and fly around till I lose my Marines then GG!
Going gas first just to be defensive is perfectly normal. You'll have defender's advantage so any loss to 1base aggression should only happen on poor scouting or control.
|
On June 30 2016 11:57 terran4lyfe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2016 10:51 geokilla wrote:
How do I defend against Gas first TvT builds? Whoever goes that build in TvT against me means I auto lose. It's always the same scenario. Opponent goes gas first into Marine-Tankivacs-Vikings. Then they camp outside my Natural and fly around till I lose my Marines then GG! Going gas first just to be defensive is perfectly normal. You'll have defender's advantage so any loss to 1base aggression should only happen on poor scouting or control. It's true. To add to this, you can open gas first with your plan being that you will defend if the opponent goes gas first and you can harass if they have fast expanded.
You can certainly defend gas first aggression with reaper expand into factory, but it is much less forgiving and you need to micro carefully. You may need to pull/lose some scvs but you can lose some and still be ahead.
|
How do i defend proxy oracle with PO adept attack as Terran? I just had a game on Frost LE where the toss found my base and then went for proxy oracle. He threw down 3 pylons and marched across the map with another probe 1 adept, maybe 2 even, and a MSC. The time it hits i had 4 marines and 1 reaper. This can happen on any other map as well, so... how do i best scout and react to this? Let's say i DONT find the stargate, so i have to assume it is WP/Immo opening as well!
Lot's of P say to me that their cheese is weak and easily countered and scouted, but i disagree with that
|
On June 30 2016 11:57 terran4lyfe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2016 10:51 geokilla wrote:
How do I defend against Gas first TvT builds? Whoever goes that build in TvT against me means I auto lose. It's always the same scenario. Opponent goes gas first into Marine-Tankivacs-Vikings. Then they camp outside my Natural and fly around till I lose my Marines then GG! Going gas first just to be defensive is perfectly normal. You'll have defender's advantage so any loss to 1base aggression should only happen on poor scouting or control.
On June 30 2016 12:41 DrDevice wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2016 11:57 terran4lyfe wrote:On June 30 2016 10:51 geokilla wrote:
How do I defend against Gas first TvT builds? Whoever goes that build in TvT against me means I auto lose. It's always the same scenario. Opponent goes gas first into Marine-Tankivacs-Vikings. Then they camp outside my Natural and fly around till I lose my Marines then GG! Going gas first just to be defensive is perfectly normal. You'll have defender's advantage so any loss to 1base aggression should only happen on poor scouting or control. It's true. To add to this, you can open gas first with your plan being that you will defend if the opponent goes gas first and you can harass if they have fast expanded. You can certainly defend gas first aggression with reaper expand into factory, but it is much less forgiving and you need to micro carefully. You may need to pull/lose some scvs but you can lose some and still be ahead.
That's the problem. I go Reaper or Marine expand into Factory, 2nd gas, then Starport and I just die. Is gas first the only way to play TvT now?
|
On June 30 2016 23:45 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2016 11:57 terran4lyfe wrote:On June 30 2016 10:51 geokilla wrote:
How do I defend against Gas first TvT builds? Whoever goes that build in TvT against me means I auto lose. It's always the same scenario. Opponent goes gas first into Marine-Tankivacs-Vikings. Then they camp outside my Natural and fly around till I lose my Marines then GG! Going gas first just to be defensive is perfectly normal. You'll have defender's advantage so any loss to 1base aggression should only happen on poor scouting or control. Show nested quote +On June 30 2016 12:41 DrDevice wrote:On June 30 2016 11:57 terran4lyfe wrote:On June 30 2016 10:51 geokilla wrote:
How do I defend against Gas first TvT builds? Whoever goes that build in TvT against me means I auto lose. It's always the same scenario. Opponent goes gas first into Marine-Tankivacs-Vikings. Then they camp outside my Natural and fly around till I lose my Marines then GG! Going gas first just to be defensive is perfectly normal. You'll have defender's advantage so any loss to 1base aggression should only happen on poor scouting or control. It's true. To add to this, you can open gas first with your plan being that you will defend if the opponent goes gas first and you can harass if they have fast expanded. You can certainly defend gas first aggression with reaper expand into factory, but it is much less forgiving and you need to micro carefully. You may need to pull/lose some scvs but you can lose some and still be ahead. That's the problem. I go Reaper or Marine expand into Factory, 2nd gas, then Starport and I just die. Is gas first the only way to play TvT now?
No, I do a reactor expand in TvT and it works just fine for me.
|
On June 30 2016 16:22 AleXusher wrote:
How do i defend proxy oracle with PO adept attack as Terran? I just had a game on Frost LE where the toss found my base and then went for proxy oracle. He threw down 3 pylons and marched across the map with another probe 1 adept, maybe 2 even, and a MSC. The time it hits i had 4 marines and 1 reaper. This can happen on any other map as well, so... how do i best scout and react to this? Let's say i DONT find the stargate, so i have to assume it is WP/Immo opening as well!
Lot's of P say to me that their cheese is weak and easily countered and scouted, but i disagree with that
if you scout he's on one base throw down a bunker behind your wall and make a tank asap to kill the pylons safely. also build ebay + turrets to counter oracles/DTs
you can scout with an scv for proxys if you want to know exactly what's coming but as long as you don't know it you have to prepare for everything.
I also like to ebay block vs 1 base plays so he either has to commit to killing the ebay which slows down his attack or he lets the ebay stay there and you know he commits to 1 base play. if he doesn't kill the building scv you already have your ebay to unlock turrets which is great.
edit: I see you're opening reaper expand. I don't like that vs protoss in LotV exactly because of the vulnerability to pylon rushes. with reactor expand you have more marines when the attack hits.
|
On June 30 2016 23:45 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2016 11:57 terran4lyfe wrote:On June 30 2016 10:51 geokilla wrote:
How do I defend against Gas first TvT builds? Whoever goes that build in TvT against me means I auto lose. It's always the same scenario. Opponent goes gas first into Marine-Tankivacs-Vikings. Then they camp outside my Natural and fly around till I lose my Marines then GG! Going gas first just to be defensive is perfectly normal. You'll have defender's advantage so any loss to 1base aggression should only happen on poor scouting or control. Show nested quote +On June 30 2016 12:41 DrDevice wrote:On June 30 2016 11:57 terran4lyfe wrote:On June 30 2016 10:51 geokilla wrote:
How do I defend against Gas first TvT builds? Whoever goes that build in TvT against me means I auto lose. It's always the same scenario. Opponent goes gas first into Marine-Tankivacs-Vikings. Then they camp outside my Natural and fly around till I lose my Marines then GG! Going gas first just to be defensive is perfectly normal. You'll have defender's advantage so any loss to 1base aggression should only happen on poor scouting or control. It's true. To add to this, you can open gas first with your plan being that you will defend if the opponent goes gas first and you can harass if they have fast expanded. You can certainly defend gas first aggression with reaper expand into factory, but it is much less forgiving and you need to micro carefully. You may need to pull/lose some scvs but you can lose some and still be ahead. That's the problem. I go Reaper or Marine expand into Factory, 2nd gas, then Starport and I just die. Is gas first the only way to play TvT now?
No, it just simplifies the problem. Gas first isn't pigeon holing you into a certain style. You can go gas first->Reaper->Barracks->2nd CC->Factory+Reactor on Barracks->2nd Depot. It's still a fast expand but with a 10 second faster factory.
Or a normal reaper expand, but don't make an addon on the barracks until after the factory or a reaper+6ish Marines. That way you're using your gas to go straight into factory without delay. The rest is still down to unit control, scouting and being in position to defend. If you're still failing despite these options, then probably throw up a replay.
|
|
|
Can you guys please teach me how to deal with terran mechers turtling? I need the maximum of tips possible.
I use to create maraunders/marines and medivacs to drop a lot, expand too many times and later, go to skyterran.
Pls guys, I have a huge problem with this. When oponent starts to create vikings, I cant drop. They put too many tanks no defending, and I can't attack them. Is it better stay in defending too, expanding a lot?
|
Just stand around their bases with your bio and never engage or bleed units. Only jump on them if they have everything unsieged. Mean while take an extra base and get up to 3 starport and research ship upgrades. Win the air fight and then use liberators with the range upgrade to push out all his tank or they die.
There isnt very much Terran can do as mech to stop liberators if they dont have air superiority.
|
Ty Dunmer. I will try it. I used to have a lot of vikings and bc, sometimes banshees, but never make liberators. It must be good against thors.
|
When Protoss plays his first pylons in your base in one base versus one base scenario, how do you know initially know if he is pylon overcharge rushing on photon canon rushing?
|
If it's a cannon rush he'll try and place the pylons on the high ground, since you can't power high ground cannons from a low ground pylon.
|
On July 04 2016 07:40 pundurs wrote:
If it's a cannon rush he'll try and place the pylons on the high ground, since you can't power high ground cannons from a low ground pylon.
But why can he not do the same thing if he is going for pylon overcharge? That is place them on high ground and then overcharge them?
I suspect the timing is different but how much later does the overcharge attack come compared to the cannon rush?
Also, is it possible to see if he is warping in a cannon or a pylon without clicking on the building warping in? Both look the same to me, but maybe their is some graphic setting to make it easier to tell the difference?
|
On July 04 2016 08:09 MockHamill wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2016 07:40 pundurs wrote:
If it's a cannon rush he'll try and place the pylons on the high ground, since you can't power high ground cannons from a low ground pylon. But why can he not do the same thing if he is going for pylon overcharge? That is place them on high ground and then overcharge them? I suspect the timing is different but how much later does the overcharge attack come compared to the cannon rush? Also, is it possible to see if he is warping in a cannon or a pylon without clicking on the building warping in? Both look the same to me, but maybe their is some graphic setting to make it easier to tell the difference?
You can't know without clicking, no matter the graphic settings (to go further, you can only know the size of the building for all 3 races, and for terran the building is different after something like half or 2/3 of the production).
Also, I would say that if you see a cyber in his base, it's overcharge, and if it's earler or you didn't see the cyber, cannons are more likely.
|
Sorry but can Platinum players or below refrain from guessing?
A canon rush will be hitting before you scout. It's gasless and a rush attack. A pylon bust is harder to see coming since it can happen off a normal fast expand. Some red flags include (off a normal 17ish scout) scouting 2 gates before nexus or scouting a cyber before nexus. A reaper would be able to see the MSC heading straight to your base after it spawns (that should also be around the same time or a little before the Protoss is making at least 3 pylons below your ramp.
Typically a protoss player isn't going to pylon overcharge your main and just goes for the damage at the ramp. That will kill your depots and maybe your addon while causing you to lose units or lift the barracks. This is more guaranteed damage and once your wall is open they can dedicate more units like stalkers or adepts to push the advantage. It is possible to have it happen if they get inside your base and flood back of your mineral line with pylons preventing a surround with SCVs.
A dedicated canon rusher is going to be building pylons and canons in and outside your base with 2 or more probes. Typically having you chase the probe and pylons while setting up canons on the low ground and then the high ground pylons are protected from SCV pulls. The best thing is to bunker or set up units above the ramp so the player can't fit any extra probes into your main to continue his canon rush, and then if you can kill all his high ground vision, the rush is done.
|
On July 04 2016 23:59 terran4lyfe wrote:
Sorry but can Platinum players or below refrain from guessing?
You are just being uselessly rude.
This is a help thread, you don't need a degree (or a league reference) to help.
Also, how do you think any of the people answering is below diamond, if not by guess?
|
On July 04 2016 08:09 MockHamill wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2016 07:40 pundurs wrote:
If it's a cannon rush he'll try and place the pylons on the high ground, since you can't power high ground cannons from a low ground pylon. But why can he not do the same thing if he is going for pylon overcharge? That is place them on high ground and then overcharge them? I suspect the timing is different but how much later does the overcharge attack come compared to the cannon rush? Also, is it possible to see if he is warping in a cannon or a pylon without clicking on the building warping in? Both look the same to me, but maybe their is some graphic setting to make it easier to tell the difference?
Warping in pylons are a bit taller and narrower more like a sphere where canons are a bit flatter like a circle, play a game vs easy AI and start a pylon and Canon next to each other and you should be able to see the difference. I can always tell the difference, but usually click to confirm anyway.
|
Can someone explain to me the tactics behind tvt engagements? I don't understand how marine and sieges tank drops work anymore as I'm still in hots mode in this matchup. Tvt used to be about entrenched positions and methodical play. The matchup feels a lot faster now and I'm not quite sure how to respond or defend against the basic army composition.
|
It still is, but tanks are a lot more mobile now. In a nutshell this means that the entrenched positions as you saw in HotS can be taken instantly. Thismakes it easier for the attacking player to take critical offensive positions before the defending player can react. So basically it becomes more volatile.
A few pointers:
- Consider binding tanks with rapid fire, if you go back to a few posts of mine I basically post a tutorial on how to configure the hotkeys.
- Keep spotter marines on positions you know you can't afford not to have vision on. This could mean as little as a spotter marine in front of his natural/third, or multiple marines looking at air pathings if you do not have vikings.
- In a fight, make sure you have your tanks selected first as opposed to stimming your marines first. The person that has the quickest tank drop has a big advantage. If you do not drop first, don't be afraid to take a tank volley and fall back. Committing is a bad idea in most situations, unless you have the marine concave/upgrade advantage/greater nummerical advantage etc.
- Get at least a second factory on 3 bases, you can also go for a 3 factories setup on 3 bases. On 4 bases you should have 3 factories producing tanks non-stop, because marines effectively become cannon fodder in the lategame.
- Try getting vikings if you're sure you have enough medivacs for every tank. If you have the air advantage this means that you can easily take a relatively safe offensive position and that your opponent has to fall back,have a distant stand-off that is not in his favor because he has no vision, or engage into you.
In short, it's like HotS, but a lot more explosive and volatile.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
