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On May 08 2016 18:45 AleXusher wrote:Show nested quote +just mass ghosts. the LBM army will give you enough defensive capabilities to effectively build up a high enough ghost count. Then when ghost are out they will shred any ultralisks and any other high tech units the zerg has and how do i engage? Fungal or fast lings will interrupt the snipe, or bile will do that or the mutalisks... also: how do i defend proxy ravager? Zerg contains me hard and expands 3 base behind into GG and also: how do i defend proxy robo? http://ggtracker.com/matches/6632256
EJK didn't give a wrong answer, just not quite a complete one. Ghosts do work, but you generally need good vision and for them to engage on your terms. No matter how you go about dealing with Ultralisks, you always want some sort of front line zoning. If you're an insane person you won't have any Liberators, but most cases I would suggest you go for Liberators BEFORE adding in the ghosts for extra. You'll want to siege the Libs up in a spread formation and slowly push forward. On some maps this may mean leaping turrets and even a PF (Dusk Towers) in a prime location. You'll always want to try to scan before an engagement so you can target the ultras before hand and have a really good pre spread so the LBM + Ultra always has something eating even a second of their time if there's ghosts in the back.
Personally, I go for mass Libs + a few Thors + Marine Medivac for the general clean up. Thors soak up damage really well while Libs shoot from above. The more time Ultras spend in the Liberator Zone the better. Ideally I'd do the same thing but with some Ghosts sniping from the back as well. Ghosts don't suffer from being killed easily by corruptors or Vipers (Something I combat with mediocre success using the Thors AA and a few unsieged libs and marines)
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ok, thank you all for your help  already had some success vs ultras now
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Is the idea that your bio buffers the ultras/Zerg until the snipes land and then you retreat the bio?
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On May 10 2016 12:11 gh0st wrote:
Is the idea that your bio buffers the ultras/Zerg until the snipes land and then you retreat the bio?
Absolutely. And if you're playing with Libs you just stutter and split within the zones to keep the Ultras in the circles as long as possible.
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How do i deal with early tempest? It seems i just cant deal with it. All i know is: "get 2nd sp and get vikings" but that isnt rly enough knowledge to deal with tempest, esp if P hides them until he got like 2-3
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6634700
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On May 10 2016 22:52 AleXusher wrote:How do i deal with early tempest? It seems i just cant deal with it. All i know is: "get 2nd sp and get vikings" but that isnt rly enough knowledge to deal with tempest, esp if P hides them until he got like 2-3 http://ggtracker.com/matches/6634700
I have recently played vs this and I pressured his 3rd while dropping all over the place. Continued to siege up liberators and try to keep his gateway units down while expanding and teching to ghosts/vikings. I ended up with 5 bases when he had 3 and when he went for his fourth base I used my vikings/ghosts and cleaned him up. You have to out expand since they will be lacking gateway units and mobility if they go early tempests, try to target the tempests as well as best as you can to try and lower the count and slow him down but thats not always the case. Just drop all over his mineral line then pick up and run, keep doing that and hitting his front with libs/bio until you get vikings/ghosts.
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What the fuck do you do against protoss mass air in the mid-late game? Can someone help me out? Could I perhaps have killed him with a marine/tank/viking around ~8 minutes?
http://www.ggtracker.com/matches/6635084
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On May 10 2016 02:42 Jakamakala wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2016 18:45 AleXusher wrote:just mass ghosts. the LBM army will give you enough defensive capabilities to effectively build up a high enough ghost count. Then when ghost are out they will shred any ultralisks and any other high tech units the zerg has and how do i engage? Fungal or fast lings will interrupt the snipe, or bile will do that or the mutalisks... also: how do i defend proxy ravager? Zerg contains me hard and expands 3 base behind into GG and also: how do i defend proxy robo? http://ggtracker.com/matches/6632256 EJK didn't give a wrong answer, just not quite a complete one. Ghosts do work, but you generally need good vision and for them to engage on your terms. No matter how you go about dealing with Ultralisks, you always want some sort of front line zoning. If you're an insane person you won't have any Liberators, but most cases I would suggest you go for Liberators BEFORE adding in the ghosts for extra. You'll want to siege the Libs up in a spread formation and slowly push forward. On some maps this may mean leaping turrets and even a PF (Dusk Towers) in a prime location. You'll always want to try to scan before an engagement so you can target the ultras before hand and have a really good pre spread so the LBM + Ultra always has something eating even a second of their time if there's ghosts in the back. Personally, I go for mass Libs + a few Thors + Marine Medivac for the general clean up. Thors soak up damage really well while Libs shoot from above. The more time Ultras spend in the Liberator Zone the better. Ideally I'd do the same thing but with some Ghosts sniping from the back as well. Ghosts don't suffer from being killed easily by corruptors or Vipers (Something I combat with mediocre success using the Thors AA and a few unsieged libs and marines)
well said. Ghosts definitely are not stand alone units and need a lot of support from other units to be able to safely get their snipes off
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ghosts in TvZ? is this a gumiho WoL appreciation thread? I have not seen ghosts used in TvZ by the pros during LotV. can anyone link me to an example? the trend in Korea is that if you go bio, you need to kill zerg before ultras pop.
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On May 04 2016 23:27 EJK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2016 17:11 KonanTenshi wrote:On April 30 2016 16:11 shimmering119 wrote:
thanks guys, one more q, so people use mm tank as a generic bio comp, what would a generic mech comp look like? like what units would you tell a noob to build if they wanted to play mech Which match up are we speaking about? in LotV mech isn't very strong/viable but I've had various success with hellbat/liberator in TvZ and various success with medivac/hellbat/tank/viking in TvT. Unless you are trying to be a professional player that competes against the best of other regions, mech is viable up to grandmaster level, and starts to decrease in competency past the mid gm point tvp - widow mine, hellbat, tank, lib tvt - hellbat/tank/vik/lib/raven tvz - ghost lib cyclone hellion
I think mech just takes longer to figure out. very few pros were using mech at the beginning of WoL and HotS. but by the end of those eras, mech was the dominant style vZ / vT.
hellion/hellbat/banshee remains the strongest way to open vs zerg. it the best way to pressure zerg's third, the best way to scout what zerg is doing, and the best defense against all-ins (with the help of a bunker + 4 marines for ravager pushes). hellion/skymech mid-game is very promising vZ. TY and GuMiho are destroying zergs with this style. it is also a good on prion terraces, thanks to the easy 4th and short push distance.
I think that a lot of the difficulties mech had in HotS are gone. in HotS, you had to halt all aggression once the hellion/banshee was deflected. you would have to sit back, build more factories, build thors in time to defend against mutas, or build tanks to defend against roaches or swarm hosts. this was the phase where terran was locked in and trying to defend until 2/2 or battlecruiser/raven...
but now you have liberators, which can be pumped out 2 or 3 at a time very quickly to easily defend against mutas. once mutas are pushed back, liberators have so much utility out on the map... chasing mutas, sniping units, seizing map control, locking down bases and counter pushing with hellbat/banshee. zerg can do some serious pushes vs midgame skymech. for example, it takes a long time for banshee/liberator to clean up a roach/ravager push. by that time, you have probably lost a minute mining at your third/fourth. but roach/ravager can't kill your sky units, so you always have the army to launch a strong counter attack. long-term, all zerg can do is make corruptors and try to tech to vipers. but by that time the damage is already done. if it does come down to vipers, you can always teleport around the map with battlecruisers or EMP drop with 2-3 ghosts. my infrastructure vZ is 2 factories (x3 hellions, then x4 after blue flame finishes) and 4 starports (1 reactor, 3 tech labs) and add a 2nd armory around the time +2 sky weapons finishes.
in TvT, ground mech is a lot harder. if you lose air control even for a moment in the midgame, liberators will ruin your day. plus the maps are really terrible for tank-based mech at the moment.
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How often do you scan Protoss in TvP?
I find myself dying a lot to Protoss various 1-base and 2-base attacks (if not then I die in the late game anyway).
So how often do you scan the Protoss base? I find that that I need every mule I can get early game just to keep up with the Protoss economy, but at the same time I have died numerous time for not spotting their tech in time.
Do you use every 3rd energy for a scan instead of mule, or is there any general principle for this?
The problem is also that Protoss can hide their tech at any place on the map so scanning their main may not give you anything useful.
Is there any article on how to scout and read Protoss in TvP for Lotv?
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On May 12 2016 21:17 MockHamill wrote:
How often do you scan Protoss in TvP?
I find myself dying a lot to Protoss various 1-base and 2-base attacks (if not then I die in the late game anyway).
So how often do you scan the Protoss base? I find that that I need every mule I can get early game just to keep up with the Protoss economy, but at the same time I have died numerous time for not spotting their tech in time.
Do you use every 3rd energy for a scan instead of mule, or is there any general principle for this?
The problem is also that Protoss can hide their tech at any place on the map so scanning their main may not give you anything useful.
Is there any article on how to scout and read Protoss in TvP for Lotv?
yes it is true protoss can proxy buildings and tech, sometimes a scan that tells you nothing can tell you everything by what you DON'T see
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how are you guys playing mech vs bio in TvT? I'm having fair success on frozen, but the other maps are very difficult. dusk towers is especially difficult. how do you spot drops coming on a large map? or get enough anti-air out to defend bio/tank/viking/liberator pushes?
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On May 13 2016 18:43 SHODAN wrote:
how are you guys playing mech vs bio in TvT? I'm having fair success on frozen, but the other maps are very difficult. dusk towers is especially difficult. how do you spot drops coming on a large map? or get enough anti-air out to defend bio/tank/viking/liberator pushes?
I'm a low dia scrub, so not sure how much of this is useful for you.
I tend to turtle on with a million turrets and tanks in Dusk, making only tanks+vikings and a few mines. I really go crazy on the turrets, I even get the range upgrade. Even if they try to contain with early bio and tanks, I tend to gain air superirority and higher tank count soon enough. Then I double expand after that, having the CCs ready beforehand.
Getting a 5th base is hard for mech on this map, but mines work wonders.
On other maps, I make alot of mines. Works especially well on Frozen and Prion. Most bio terrans at my level don't make Ravens, so I can easily shut one attack path with mines and a couple of tanks and push from another side, while my bases are safe from drops because I spent half a map's worth of minerals making turrets.
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On May 13 2016 20:46 ihatevideogames wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2016 18:43 SHODAN wrote:
how are you guys playing mech vs bio in TvT? I'm having fair success on frozen, but the other maps are very difficult. dusk towers is especially difficult. how do you spot drops coming on a large map? or get enough anti-air out to defend bio/tank/viking/liberator pushes? I'm a low dia scrub, so not sure how much of this is useful for you. I tend to turtle on with a million turrets and tanks in Dusk, making only tanks+vikings and a few mines. I really go crazy on the turrets, I even get the range upgrade. Even if they try to contain with early bio and tanks, I tend to gain air superirority and higher tank count soon enough. Then I double expand after that, having the CCs ready beforehand. Getting a 5th base is hard for mech on this map, but mines work wonders. On other maps, I make alot of mines. Works especially well on Frozen and Prion. Most bio terrans at my level don't make Ravens, so I can easily shut one attack path with mines and a couple of tanks and push from another side, while my bases are safe from drops because I spent half a map's worth of minerals making turrets.
are you on EU? If so I think I've played you xD
On the other hand, I've noticed mech TvT is the mech player just sitting there and getting the better hand in trades and what not, I tend to call it I bore my opponent out instead of beating them 
If you for some weird reason lose air superiority, Don't worry you'll have like 15+ CCs and 90+ turrets/sensor turrets to keep map awareness on top at all time :p
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Elentos
55594 Posts
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On May 13 2016 23:20 KonanTenshi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2016 20:46 ihatevideogames wrote:On May 13 2016 18:43 SHODAN wrote:
how are you guys playing mech vs bio in TvT? I'm having fair success on frozen, but the other maps are very difficult. dusk towers is especially difficult. how do you spot drops coming on a large map? or get enough anti-air out to defend bio/tank/viking/liberator pushes? I'm a low dia scrub, so not sure how much of this is useful for you. I tend to turtle on with a million turrets and tanks in Dusk, making only tanks+vikings and a few mines. I really go crazy on the turrets, I even get the range upgrade. Even if they try to contain with early bio and tanks, I tend to gain air superirority and higher tank count soon enough. Then I double expand after that, having the CCs ready beforehand. Getting a 5th base is hard for mech on this map, but mines work wonders. On other maps, I make alot of mines. Works especially well on Frozen and Prion. Most bio terrans at my level don't make Ravens, so I can easily shut one attack path with mines and a couple of tanks and push from another side, while my bases are safe from drops because I spent half a map's worth of minerals making turrets. are you on EU? If so I think I've played you xD On the other hand, I've noticed mech TvT is the mech player just sitting there and getting the better hand in trades and what not, I tend to call it I bore my opponent out instead of beating them If you for some weird reason lose air superiority, Don't worry you'll have like 15+ CCs and 90+ turrets/sensor turrets to keep map awareness on top at all time :p
I'm normally on EU but I recently started playing more on NA to try out Toss/Zerg.
And yeah, there's not much reason to move out with mech in tvt untill you're confident the opponent can't egange into you or threaten another side.
I've had games where I won on my first push without a major army fight because the bio terran didn't know how to engage me.
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EPT
