On February 16 2016 20:25 Poopi wrote: Marine/marau/medivacs/mines+liberators (+ghosts when needed)
how can you really controll MMM +liberators and also widowmines, seems like mass apm needed to reposition all of that. And if you can do it, why should the opponent let you do that. We are allready seeing that in action, while terran is moving you see stalkers coming from the side, picking off liberators/widowmines for example, forcing stims.
Scan enemy army Set up preliminary lib zones Put widow mines in the zones Stim in army if there's a nearby target (such as blinkstalkers trying to pick off libs, or pylons) Snipe HT if opportunity presents
Set up new lib zones further up Reposition mines and army Go out on forays with stim bio
By now, you likely have spotted a third set of lib zones that screen out the army so stim bio does well. He's pressured to engage. Maybe he does this now, maybe earlier, but point is you have the first libs set up. Third set of lib zones Mine movement Scan EMP approaching army, snipe if appropriate Stim stutter step chargelots & archons through the lib zones as they get shots
1. You have time while libs set up to move mines. It's methodical, not high APM, moving lib zones closer and covering the back. 2. You're just stimming in and out of lib zones, it doesn't require a ton of APM. 3. The best engagements do require good apm to control stim bio and ghosts so they aren't flattened early. That's two groups, not 4.
Wow. Really loving this way to open TvZ with the tank drop. I think it perhaps gives you less drone killing capability of something like cloakshee or liberator but maybe a little more control of your opponent as well as forcing out more early units whereas banshee is mainly deflected by spores + queens. I think it taxes the Terrans multitasking a little more but also forces more multitasking out of your opponent.
Most importantly I think it is just safer than banshee and liberator play. Yeah banshees kill roaches and ravagers decently well but if a nydus pops in your main I think I would rather take the tankivac. Banshees just take a long time to kill stuff and with nydus play the Zerg often brings queens so you'll need to at least get in range of them to be able to hit anything so your at risk of losing the banshee whereas with perfect micro the tankivac gives you a little more survivability because of the range.
I am also a fan of the Viking after the first medivac to clear overlords and to make drops more effective later on.
Also with the build Inno does he keeps reactoring out marines instead of any hellions which gives you more defense against both roach/ravager play as well as mutas since hellions are obviously useless against mutas and almost as useless against roaches.
If you are struggling in TvZ I highly recommend looking at that game and copying the build. As I stated before yes it was Ulrena and yeah Inno sort of bops Leenock with his push but I think it is an applicable build for any map really because of the greedy follow up of a third CC and then two more ebays pretty soon after.
To macro players opening Reaper expand having difficulties in TvT, I highly highly suggest throwing down a bunker at your ramp in the pocket expansion maps to wall off. It helps deflect so much of that early two reaper two hellion pressure which is basically always going to come with a gas first into two gas build. It even forces players opening with multiple rax reaper to jump up a cliff if they want to do actual damage which gives you a huge advantage in fighting off such pressure.
I'm probably going to do this at my main ramp on maps without a pocket expansion since I like to build my cc in my main to make my defense as easy as possible in TvT. A huge part of these builds is being able to beat on your front depots forcing some kind of reaction where their reapers/hellions can trade with your marines which only helps to make the follow up banshee even more powerful.
Okay so how do I win against protoss? It's ridicilous that protoss gets 3bases and I can do nothing about it. And when we go to lategame it's obvious who has the better army, surprise, it's protoss. Tempests and storms and other bullshit counters everything, it doesn't matter what I do. So is there some build that I can use and skip all this bullshit and MAYBE grab a victory?
Build liberator range. They outrange every single ground AA the protoss arsenal got.
Do the bunny build in TvP and watch them rip their hair out.
On the other hand, I struggle seriously bad vs zerg. Anyone got tips on how to open vs a zerg? what's a solid opener (I don't want to do the bunny opener)
On February 27 2016 23:10 KonanTenshi wrote: Protoss bullshit gone terran.
Build liberator range. They outrange every single ground AA the protoss arsenal got.
Do the bunny build in TvP and watch them rip their hair out.
On the other hand, I struggle seriously bad vs zerg. Anyone got tips on how to open vs a zerg? what's a solid opener (I don't want to do the bunny opener)
I don't know what is the bunny opener but here are my 2 favourite
On February 27 2016 23:10 KonanTenshi wrote: Protoss bullshit gone terran.
Build liberator range. They outrange every single ground AA the protoss arsenal got.
Do the bunny build in TvP and watch them rip their hair out.
On the other hand, I struggle seriously bad vs zerg. Anyone got tips on how to open vs a zerg? what's a solid opener (I don't want to do the bunny opener)
With how many Protoss open stargate I think this is a terrible idea personally.
On February 27 2016 23:10 KonanTenshi wrote: Protoss bullshit gone terran.
Build liberator range. They outrange every single ground AA the protoss arsenal got.
Do the bunny build in TvP and watch them rip their hair out.
On the other hand, I struggle seriously bad vs zerg. Anyone got tips on how to open vs a zerg? what's a solid opener (I don't want to do the bunny opener)
With how many Protoss open stargate I think this is a terrible idea personally.
Really? in my experience almost every protoss I play opens robo. Very rarely do they open a starport for me thus I'm doing the liberator range strategy a lot with prominent success.
To the TvZ builds, thanks a lot fo the recommendations.
I am almost not sure if I should share this but anyway:
I think I have found a 100% sure way of defeating 2 or 3 rax reapers even if you have bad micro. In the past I have experimented with going reapers myself, defending with marine/hellions or reaper/hellions, going for banshee etc. But all those responses seems to be hit or miss and relies too much on good micro which I have not.
Instead I have found that if you suspect reapers you should skip the 1-1-1 and instead go 2 rax 1 factory. Non-stop marine production from the barracks, non-stop tank production from the factory. Do not build a single hellion. So far I have won every single game against reaper cheese using this strat.
This is only on Diamond level with 80 APM against 160 APM opponents so I am not sure if it works on higher levels, but I cannot see a reason to why it should not.
Yeah but still in the lategame Protoss is going to have Tempests. Bam, Liberators are no good anymore. Tempest/Immortal/HT + other gateway units just wins everything. So is there actually a way to beat Protoss in lategame?
On February 28 2016 18:12 SiaBBo wrote: Yeah but still in the lategame Protoss is going to have Tempests. Bam, Liberators are no good anymore. Tempest/Immortal/HT + other gateway units just wins everything. So is there actually a way to beat Protoss in lategame?
Widow mines with the claws and lot of vikings + hellions. This is the only way. Once the Tempest are dead land the vikings
I want to know how do you defend/stop early cannon rushes or pylon/MScore rush. I open the standart one reaper, but they come much earlier. I beginn losing my wall(two depots) and need to move the Barracks. I try to kill the pylons with 4/5 SCVs, but the probe keep building pylons and there is time there are like 4-5 pylons and I can not cover all of them... Any help?
I want to know how do you defend/stop early cannon rushes or pylon/MScore rush. I open the standart one reaper, but they come much earlier. I beginn losing my wall(two depots) and need to move the Barracks. I try to kill the pylons with 4/5 SCVs, but the probe keep building pylons and there is time there are like 4-5 pylons and I can not cover all of them... Any help?
For the MScore/pylon rush (plus some units usually), a bunker at the ramp on the opposite side of the fake depot usually does the trick.
My win percentage is 34% in TvP and it feels like Protoss is heavily favoured at every stage in the game except for a short window in the mid game which is even.
So if you have any links to successful builds or game plan against Protoss, preferably some that do not require high APM to pull off it would be appreciated.
I think that Cyclones are good versus early game protoss and that Liberators are good after early game. Could be wrong. I am also interested in some tips in that regard.
I think 1/2 bases pushes could work well because you won't need much apm for it, especially compared to a standard macro game where you'll be spread out and would have to deal with drops or multitask to do damage.
On 1 base you can go 2-1-1 tanks medivacs marines plus.some scvafter some harass (widow mine or hellion drop, liberator) (if the P goes 2 bases) and push with stim/CS (maybe even +1 atk, not sure if you got the gas). You'll need a turret in mineral line.
A 1-1-1 coming earlier without harass but with only one medivac and liberators can probably work too. (with 5-6 scv so you have 16/16+6 at gases at home, can build bunkers or turrets and repair, put them on auto-repair)
On 2 bases you defend early, poke with marines/cyclone (if the P goes macro), then some liberator harass, while you build up a big army off of 2 bases with 1/1, stim/CS, tanks, medics, on like 5 raxes, and push at the third once your army is big. Since you stay on 2 bases and don't harass with drops it should not be apm intensive to defend whatever comes, especially when building tanks.
My problems are: 3 rax reaper on Orbital Shipyard ( yeah I open gas first, I use scv to buffer and micro the hell out and still lose ) and zerg in prion terraces... what build do you guys do in this map? I find very hard to win against zerg in this map.
On March 08 2016 09:40 CharAznable2 wrote: My problems are: 3 rax reaper on Orbital Shipyard ( yeah I open gas first, I use scv to buffer and micro the hell out and still lose ) and zerg in prion terraces... what build do you guys do in this map? I find very hard to win against zerg in this map.
gas first should definetly beat 3 rax reapers. what build do you do?
no if you rush tanks you die. what i do is make 1 or 2 hellions and a bunker (right after your factory, before your 2nd gas) on the ramp with 1 marine in it, rest of your units covers the other parts of your base.
if you kill his first reaper without losing anything, you can go reaper-marine or 3 marines and then reactor on racks, if you dont, i'd advise keep making marines until you have a hellion and then start your reactor.
EPT
