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joshie0808
Canada1023 Posts
On January 05 2015 22:21 liduof wrote: trying tvp builds now will share when i finalize them btw i'm in 2015 WCS China round of 64 now thanks for the support of my English lv  Hi Liduof, I'm looking forward to your guide on your TvP builds as I really enjoyed the depth and detail you provided in this one. | ||
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liduof
40 Posts
On January 13 2015 06:40 alpenrahm wrote: Bomber builds the starport on the reactor that he used to make the Hellions / mines. Yup, as long as you have 2 mines pop out b4 8:00, you may build starport on that reactor. But if you don't , you have to choose between skipping mines or put starport next to that reactor. In this case, I suggest the latter alternative. Skipping mines is too dangerous because by the time you have to start mines(hellions just pop), you have 0 scouting . 10s late on medivac(time need for switching addon) is not that big. Above all, if you are playing in a league where 10 sec on medivac timing is THAT IMPORTANT(Korean GM 100ish), then you would have mines ready at 8:00 every game. | ||
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liduof
40 Posts
On January 14 2015 03:10 joshie0808 wrote: Hi Liduof, I'm looking forward to your guide on your TvP builds as I really enjoyed the depth and detail you provided in this one. personally, I like 15gas build widow mine drop build Bbyong used against Zest and Parting On maps like Nimbus I'd use MKP's CC first than 3 addons before stim build. On overgrowth i pretty much use fast +1 into 13:30 all in. The matter is that in TvP you have to play reactionary. There's too much a protoss can do than zerg. | ||
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SBGamer
Germany115 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On February 17 2015 06:04 SBGamer wrote: Does actually 3rd CC - 2 Rax (3 total) - 2 Gas work? I feel like it is safer to hold all ins The whole point of this build is to get freewins in the lategame by giving up your chances of defending a decent allin. From the OP: WARNING: DO NOT RELY ON THIS BUILD IN LOWER LEVEL, where your opponent may 1/2 base baneling bust/ roach ling all in w/o knowing you have a third. 8:00 baneling roach all in you are dead Without hellions/tanks/mines you are simply going to have problems against good baneling allins at that time. If you start comprimising this build however you should just play a normal 3CC with hellions instead which really can hold anything (but doesn't have a game winning midgame advantage over the zerg). | ||
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liduof
40 Posts
On February 17 2015 21:27 Big J wrote: The whole point of this build is to get freewins in the lategame by giving up your chances of defending a decent allin. From the OP: Without hellions/tanks/mines you are simply going to have problems against good baneling allins at that time. If you start comprimising this build however you should just play a normal 3CC with hellions instead which really can hold anything (but doesn't have a game winning midgame advantage over the zerg). not exactly. Rax 3cc can defend any major all-ins, as I listed in the latter part of the guide. | ||
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liduof
40 Posts
On February 17 2015 06:04 SBGamer wrote: Does actually 3rd CC - 2 Rax (3 total) - 2 Gas work? I feel like it is safer to hold all ins nope. any seconds you are late in gas will lead to late hellion/mines timing and medivac timing | ||
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AMove
United States2 Posts
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SBGamer
Germany115 Posts
On March 15 2015 14:41 AMove wrote: Could the opener work in TvP as well? Very unlikely. Scv scout, early 3rd, almost no units in the early game. You will probably lose to most all ins and tech rushes. Unless the toss is very greedy, there is no reason to go gasless 3 base. You even need to prepare for all ins when you are building 3 rax instead of 3rd, imagine that with going earlier 3rd instead of 3 rax. I would only use gasless rax fe into 3rd when you know that your opponent is doing a greedy build (nexus first) | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
On March 15 2015 14:41 AMove wrote: Could the opener work in TvP as well? I've had it work at Diamond level if the stars align correctly. If it is a rather large map like Frost or Deadwing and I have already commited at least to 1rax FE (or 14cc depending) and I can get a wall up so the Toss can't see what I'm doing behind it and I also scouted he went either Nexus first or Nexus after Gate. That is the only time I consider it. I wouldn't consider this a staple TvP but it can work as long as you can confirm many builds are not coming. It may be a tad more powerful now (last time I did it was in the Frost map pool era) now that Blink is nerfed. That was always what I'd lose to in general with this build. | ||
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DeadByDawn
United Kingdom476 Posts
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liduof
40 Posts
On March 15 2015 14:41 AMove wrote: Could the opener work in TvP as well? not at all. you lose to any 1-base all in. any stargate build, or twilight build due to lack of scouting. and if toss scout your 3rd at 1st observer, you are facing a 2 colossi all-in(w/o any viking to defend) or a free 3rd for toss. | ||
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liduof
40 Posts
On March 15 2015 23:03 DeadByDawn wrote: I vote that we name every strategy in a similar way - this is just too awesome : Head-on Fight a Dragon with Regret(亢龙有悔). That alone makes me want to try this build. The power of Chinese language. | ||
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liduof
40 Posts
On March 15 2015 22:20 Tenks wrote: I've had it work at Diamond level if the stars align correctly. If it is a rather large map like Frost or Deadwing and I have already commited at least to 1rax FE (or 14cc depending) and I can get a wall up so the Toss can't see what I'm doing behind it and I also scouted he went either Nexus first or Nexus after Gate. That is the only time I consider it. I wouldn't consider this a staple TvP but it can work as long as you can confirm many builds are not coming. It may be a tad more powerful now (last time I did it was in the Frost map pool era) now that Blink is nerfed. That was always what I'd lose to in general with this build. if you really wanna be greedy, try cc first into 3rax. its safer and also give you an edge in economy, but less behind in tech than this build. | ||
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liduof
40 Posts
On March 15 2015 21:44 SBGamer wrote: Very unlikely. Scv scout, early 3rd, almost no units in the early game. You will probably lose to most all ins and tech rushes. Unless the toss is very greedy, there is no reason to go gasless 3 base. You even need to prepare for all ins when you are building 3 rax instead of 3rd, imagine that with going earlier 3rd instead of 3 rax. I would only use gasless rax fe into 3rd when you know that your opponent is doing a greedy build (nexus first) if you know your opponent is doing nexus first, why not proxy 2 rax or rax expand and build a bunker at his 2nd? Toss have to wait a million years for its first nexus cannon. | ||
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IMR
70 Posts
On March 15 2015 14:41 AMove wrote: Could the opener work in TvP as well? skrong vs nexus first cuz you can't do shit to protoss anyways, theoretically seems even skronger vs gateway expand cuz he can't do shit to you and expo even later. neither build from p customarily probe scouts and by the time they identify the rapid 3rd cc they can't do shit about it. | ||
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IMR
70 Posts
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liduof
40 Posts
On March 22 2015 15:17 IMR wrote: skrong vs nexus first cuz you can't do shit to protoss anyways, theoretically seems even skronger vs gateway expand cuz he can't do shit to you and expo even later. neither build from p customarily probe scouts and by the time they identify the rapid 3rd cc they can't do shit about it. nexus first protoss in the same bracet = dead unless terran goes on cc first. either reaper or gas first or 1-1-1 mine drop will punish toss if microed properly. | ||
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NotTrulyEvil
22 Posts
Feels like the 200/200 will be quite much stronger but not sure if it's worth it :S | ||
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SBGamer
Germany115 Posts
On May 13 2015 06:09 NotTrulyEvil wrote: Do you think the version where you delay your 8th rax in favor of a second factory (tech-labed, building blue flame and thors later on) is better? And if so is it worth building any thors to the 13:00-13:30 push? Feels like the 200/200 will be quite much stronger but not sure if it's worth it :S I do not think there is any version with delaying 8th rax for 2nd factory. There is a version where you get a fast 2nd factory after the 1st factory with techlab for blueflame (Bomber vs Revival) and you will have lots of hellions for gaining map control and getting damage done, but this will have delayed upgrades and less bio at 13:30. Also, getting such early 2nd factory will make you gas starved, delaying everything which costs gas (later medevacs, 2/2, marauders). I think the only time where you get your second factory would be after the 13:30 timing. Thors are worth building later on, but before the timing, it is just killing your gas, ESPECIALLY with blueflame. I would rather stick to this version without a second/third factory before 13:30. | ||
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