• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:21
CEST 08:21
KST 15:21
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall6HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL40Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?12FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event16Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster14Weekly Cups (June 16-22): Clem strikes back1
StarCraft 2
General
How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports? Statistics for vetoed/disliked maps The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form? StarCraft Mass Recall: SC1 campaigns on SC2 thread
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Semi Finals & Finals $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event HomeStory Cup 27 (June 27-29)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady
Brood War
General
Help: rep cant save [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Where did Hovz go?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL20] ProLeague LB Final - Saturday 20:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
Game Sound vs. Music: The Im…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 605 users

The HotS Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 38

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 36 37 38 39 40 269 Next
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-17 19:12:10
April 17 2013 19:11 GMT
#741
On April 18 2013 03:42 MrPrezbo wrote:
What do I do vs mass VR collosi in ZvP? I know "not letting him get there" is the standard answer. But is there any way to deal with it once it's already on the field? I was thinking a hard tech switch to mass muta, as VRs don't do so hot against a mass muta ball, and he likely doesn't have enough resources for mass gate units.


Yes you can fight that head on contrary to popular belief.

Hydra/swarmhost/ultra/viper can take that on easy and win no problem.

Now you may just have sh/hydra/viper before ultra but that can still take that army on as long as you abduct the colossi.

On April 17 2013 18:10 Dynamaxion wrote:
You can't use swarmhosts in Zvp because all the protoss has to do is maneuver his army around your locusts.


Please refrain from posting false information in the future thank you.

The only way that this is even a problem is if all you make is sh when honestly you should make 14 max.
When I think of something else, something will go here
IPA
Profile Joined August 2010
United States3206 Posts
April 17 2013 21:18 GMT
#742
Blade --

When you are making those initial 14ish SHs, what kind of units are you making to support? Hydra/roach/ling? One more than the other? Thanks!
Time held me green and dying though I sang in my chains like the sea.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
April 17 2013 21:32 GMT
#743
On April 18 2013 06:18 IPA wrote:
Blade --

When you are making those initial 14ish SHs, what kind of units are you making to support? Hydra/roach/ling? One more than the other? Thanks!


Hydra heavy with a few roaches hive at 12 then vipers ASAP
When I think of something else, something will go here
IPA
Profile Joined August 2010
United States3206 Posts
April 17 2013 22:26 GMT
#744
Am I just a baddy not having enough gas for hydra (with both upgrades), 14 SHs (with locust upgrade), 1/1, and 12 mins hive?
Time held me green and dying though I sang in my chains like the sea.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
April 17 2013 22:28 GMT
#745
On April 18 2013 07:26 IPA wrote:
Am I just a baddy not having enough gas for hydra (with both upgrades), 14 SHs (with locust upgrade), 1/1, and 12 mins hive?


I dunno your timings watch some of those replays from my pack I released I still do the same thing
When I think of something else, something will go here
Azoryen
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Portugal242 Posts
April 17 2013 22:58 GMT
#746
Hey,

I'm planning on doing the DRG 10 roach pressure in ZvT and have a few questions about it for someone experienced with this type of build:

Are there any BO losses with this build that I should scout for and abort if necessary?

What are the best follow-ups depending on what T is doing (mines, banshees, etc)? I think DRG himself likes to finish saturating his 2 bases, going lair and doing speed roach agression to finish him off, but not sure this is the best in all scenarios. I'd really appreciate replays of longer games showcasing these follow-ups.

Any other important considerations?

Thanks.
Rahlekk
Profile Joined September 2010
United States107 Posts
April 17 2013 23:07 GMT
#747
What do you guys use against early Phoenix harass? They get full map control, kill my queens, all my overlords, then it just puts me behind all game until I lose.
viel gluck TLO ^^ | 행운을 빌어요 BoxeR
Zheryn
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden3653 Posts
April 17 2013 23:46 GMT
#748
On April 18 2013 08:07 Rahlekk wrote:
What do you guys use against early Phoenix harass? They get full map control, kill my queens, all my overlords, then it just puts me behind all game until I lose.


Make sure you have overlords near his base so you know that it's coming. Build atleast one spore in each base when you scout it. Also grab your overlords and put them on top of the spores. They shouldn't really be able to get more than a few drones and a couple of overlords.
hundred thousand krouner
Elldar
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden287 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-18 00:01:01
April 17 2013 23:57 GMT
#749
On April 18 2013 06:32 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2013 06:18 IPA wrote:
Blade --

When you are making those initial 14ish SHs, what kind of units are you making to support? Hydra/roach/ling? One more than the other? Thanks!


Hydra heavy with a few roaches hive at 12 then vipers ASAP


In beta it was common to go corruptor for support, in my experience that is also viable. Atleast it depends on the protoss void ray count, etc. For the extra ground support add lings since what you are worried about is either blink stalkers or storms. Lings can deal with stalkers and bait storms from ht.
Overall I prefer hydra\... support since it's more multi-purpose unit.


blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
April 18 2013 00:02 GMT
#750
On April 18 2013 08:57 Elldar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2013 06:32 blade55555 wrote:
On April 18 2013 06:18 IPA wrote:
Blade --

When you are making those initial 14ish SHs, what kind of units are you making to support? Hydra/roach/ling? One more than the other? Thanks!


Hydra heavy with a few roaches hive at 12 then vipers ASAP


In beta it was common to go corruptor for support, in my experience that is also viable. Atleast it depends on the protoss void ray count, etc. For the extra ground support add lings since what you are worried about is either blink stalkers or storms. Lings can deal with stalkers and bait storms from ht.
Overall I prefer hydra\... support since it's more multi-purpose response.




I used to do corruptor/swarmhost but I found it wasn't very good if the protoss was going voidray/colossi.

If I went corruptor/sh and the toss noticed that and went voidray/colossi I lost everytime. I then figured out that skipping corruptors going straight for hive you can get vipers out and no pre-viper timing will kill you as it doesn't exist (unless the zerg isn't making units when going hive or something silly).

I found out that the viper method is far stronger and a lot more reliable as voidray/colossi ez ^_^
When I think of something else, something will go here
ManiacTheZealot
Profile Joined December 2009
United States490 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-18 01:17:49
April 18 2013 01:08 GMT
#751
On April 17 2013 20:41 serpan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2013 05:38 serpan wrote:
Hello, Blade or any other highly ranked zerg player!

I'm a top diamond level zerg wondering how I could my gameplay in an efficient way.
Here's a replay of me playing vs. a barcode P-player, who was obviously alot better than me, but I think I played this game pretty well if I may say it myself.

Here's the flaws I noticed myself:

- Lack of scouting - I did not know what his army comp was, but I did a good job keeping track on his third.
- Bad drone-count (that's usually not a problem though, not sure how it played out in this game though)
- Bad army composition mid/lategame. I threw away alot of hydras attacking his third, and when I chased him later on, I overextended.
- Bad upgrades. I usually have 2 evo's, but...
- Bad micro - I'm just plain terrible with roach/hydra/viper :p

Anyway, I'm aware he played better than me - but I'm here to learn, and I'd really appreciate some help so I can finally get masters. :D

THE REPLAY



Can anyone help me, please? <3


First and foremost you have to put something in front of your hydralisks at all times. If your hydras are being attacked you're usually losing. So with that in mind we'll choose our upgrade priorities. You should only get the ranged attack upgrade if you're going to do a roach/hydra timing. I'll get into swarmhosts later.

If you're doing a roach hydra timing and you feel like its not gonna work because he's turtling to hard get drop. If you feel like it's not gonna work because he's getting colossus to fast get vipers.

If you don't plan on a roach/hydra timing you should get melee upgrades. You want to be hitting 3/3 before 20 minutes. Zerglings and ultras will keep your hydras safe from gateway units. Vipers can pull out the heavy units and your hydras will kill them.

If you see heavy stargate play and decide on a swarmhost build upgrading ranged attack is ok. However you are not going to want to use roaches to tank they are to supply inefficient to beat protoss air. In fact all zerg tanking units are to supply inefficient to beat heavy protoss air. So instead late game you need to be pushing with creep/spores/spines to tank for your hydras and swarmhosts. Still you want to use vipers to pick units out into your army. The protoss will lose by attrition. This can be a very slow process but extremely cost effective for the zerg and has the potential to beat very aoe or air heavy protoss armies.
learning88
Profile Joined April 2005
United States160 Posts
April 18 2013 01:57 GMT
#752
d07.RiV, why can't I have been poking and retreating right when they get out of their base...like what everyone else says to do...which I would think people would understand what I mean when I say that. When pushing out, they have a very small army so if they don't FF, their army should get crushed. If they do FF, they'd have to use it defensively to prevent me from connecting with my banelings on his sentries, thus setting up a poke and retreat.

I'm not sure but in theorycraft it sounds good but I know theorycrafting is not the best at solving problems. I just want the community's feedback.
Azoryen
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Portugal242 Posts
April 18 2013 02:13 GMT
#753
I'd like to know what people think about the 10 roach pressure build.
Is it a high % build that does damage quite often, or is it unreliable?

I tryed it a few times and did zero damage to a guy who went tanks first (skipped mines, hellions, etc) and another who just made a lot of marines after 1raxFE. I had to retreat my roaches and felt very behind compared to standard play.

I'd like to put pressure on T instead of always being the one having to figure out and defend a multitude of stuff. Is there another more reliable pressure build?
MstrJinbo
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1251 Posts
April 18 2013 13:46 GMT
#754
On April 18 2013 10:57 learning88 wrote:
d07.RiV, why can't I have been poking and retreating right when they get out of their base...like what everyone else says to do...which I would think people would understand what I mean when I say that. When pushing out, they have a very small army so if they don't FF, their army should get crushed. If they do FF, they'd have to use it defensively to prevent me from connecting with my banelings on his sentries, thus setting up a poke and retreat.

I'm not sure but in theorycraft it sounds good but I know theorycrafting is not the best at solving problems. I just want the community's feedback.


You are not supposed to kill the immortal sentry army with the poke retreat move. It is used to buy time. You need 20-30 seconds for swarmhosts or hydras, poke and retreat. Great now you have the units needed to defend. Unless the Protoss screws his forcefields really badly, you aren't going to kill it with ling/bane. It you don't have any tech, then you are better off building as many spines as possible in your main and counterattack the Protoss base.
JohnJohnson
Profile Joined April 2008
United States49 Posts
April 18 2013 23:52 GMT
#755
I'm struggling heavily in ZvZ, particularly the early-mid game. It is my worst matchup.

I'm having difficulty understanding what signs to look for of impending all ins, simply speedling mass pressure, or random ling/bane timings that come off a normal looking build.

I typically open 15 pool/ 16 hatch/ 15 gas, every game.

I always drone scout, and see either the same build as mine, or pool + gas before expand.

What does gas/pool before expand usually signify? I've even seen games where they open this yet an attack never comes... they just take their expo anyways.

Alternatively, I've played against other mirror 15 pool builds, but after scouting minimal lings at their ramp/nat, all seems well until I get hit by this massive ling/bane timing later, that I had no idea was even coming.

Also, if you ever get behind in muta count or somehow your spire is delayed further than his, what can you possibly do to come back? Seems like you're basically just praying his messes up and gets supply stuck.
GG_Euphoria
Profile Joined April 2013
Canada11 Posts
April 19 2013 00:08 GMT
#756
John. Always make a Baneling Nest and constantly be scouting their Zergling count/sac lings/overlords into the main. It's the only way. About the Muta question. You either have to have better upgrades, engage over your own spores/queens or over your own lings but not his. It's a really micro intensive matchup. I'm only Platinum so I don't claim to have all the answers but I think that's pretty solid advice. You can also check the gasses at the natural and if they don't have them by like 30 seconds after yours or before, they're probably getting ready to attack. Hope this helps
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. -Albert Einstein
Arisen
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States2382 Posts
April 19 2013 03:36 GMT
#757
Do you want to base trade versus protoss using a swarm host hydra style when they're going vr/colossi? I had a very infuriating game recently where the protoss just completely moved around my swarm hosts and picked off a base every time on that 1v1 map that looks kind of like ohana. He was 3 base the entire time, I never let him get another base, but he just bypassed my army and started picking stuff off. When the engagement finally came I onloy got like 1 voidray kill with a maxxed hydra army and my whole army just evaporated.
"If you're not angry, you're not paying attention"
haaz
Profile Joined May 2010
157 Posts
April 19 2013 09:40 GMT
#758
How do I counter 6pool + spinecrawler?
And how should I respond when you play on 4 player map against random player who draw zerg and do this shit to you?
temp banned: 2 warnings: 8, my little achievments 8), last update: 23-05-2013
Elldar
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden287 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-19 10:52:11
April 19 2013 10:50 GMT
#759
On April 19 2013 08:52 JohnJohnson wrote:
I'm struggling heavily in ZvZ, particularly the early-mid game. It is my worst matchup.

I'm having difficulty understanding what signs to look for of impending all ins, simply speedling mass pressure, or random ling/bane timings that come off a normal looking build.

I typically open 15 pool/ 16 hatch/ 15 gas, every game.

I always drone scout, and see either the same build as mine, or pool + gas before expand.

What does gas/pool before expand usually signify? I've even seen games where they open this yet an attack never comes... they just take their expo anyways.

Alternatively, I've played against other mirror 15 pool builds, but after scouting minimal lings at their ramp/nat, all seems well until I get hit by this massive ling/bane timing later, that I had no idea was even coming.

Also, if you ever get behind in muta count or somehow your spire is delayed further than his, what can you possibly do to come back? Seems like you're basically just praying his messes up and gets supply stuck.


Ife he is getting gas that does tell you one thing, he is getting gas. The more useful question is what is he doing with the gas? He could either go for speedling + baneling aggression and even go allin or he could tech. The second one is kind of hard to pull off against a decent opponent. If he goes earlier extractor he will have less money to spend and the second queen is usually delayed.

In your case since you always pool -> expand you should be aware that he will have speedlings and banes before yours do and defend properly. Block your ramp with queens, building lings if neccesary or spine.

When you scout you should not just look for the army, look for other things that cost larva, i.e, drones. How satuarated is his nat compared to yours, if you got way more drones then him you know he will have made some units. He could be trying to "fool" you with sending drones from main to nat, but that will hurt him alittle economically, so his attack will be weaker.

If you get behind on mutalisk early game then I would spore up and go for infestor and get something like 3-5 infestor, then try to expand. If he is any good he will notice you are getting something else with your gas.
But I feel you mean early game, then I do not know, it all comes down to who mined more gas no matter if your spired is somewhat delayed or anything like that, and in general its the one who takes the third base first that generally gets ahead.
Azoryen
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Portugal242 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-19 12:24:34
April 19 2013 12:06 GMT
#760
On April 19 2013 08:52 JohnJohnson wrote:
I'm struggling heavily in ZvZ, particularly the early-mid game. It is my worst matchup.

I'm having difficulty understanding what signs to look for of impending all ins, simply speedling mass pressure, or random ling/bane timings that come off a normal looking build.

I typically open 15 pool/ 16 hatch/ 15 gas, every game.

I always drone scout, and see either the same build as mine, or pool + gas before expand.

What does gas/pool before expand usually signify? I've even seen games where they open this yet an attack never comes... they just take their expo anyways.

Alternatively, I've played against other mirror 15 pool builds, but after scouting minimal lings at their ramp/nat, all seems well until I get hit by this massive ling/bane timing later, that I had no idea was even coming.

Also, if you ever get behind in muta count or somehow your spire is delayed further than his, what can you possibly do to come back? Seems like you're basically just praying his messes up and gets supply stuck.


About pool+gas before expand, it could be a 1 base all-in, but usually he'll just take his expo a little latter, which you confirm with your OL at his nat. The idea behind his build is to delay his economy a little and in exchange get speed a lot earlier than you.
During this timing window, you'll have slowlings vs speedlings but that's OK as long as you keep the fight at the natural by blocking the ramp with queens. If the speedlings get inside your main, you loose. You should have made a spine in your natural so you can hold him easily even if you have less and slower lings with the help of the queens.

Also, keep in mind that you MUST see him move out with your overlords near his front or you WILL die. It's that simple and it seems like something you need to improve. In ZvZ you must monitor the minimap at ALL times particularly during the timings that speed finishes for different builds. Even from a build like yours, speedling/bane attacks are very common, so always control that minimap.

After getting speed use the next 50 gas to get banenest and as soon as it finishes morph 2 preemptive banes. When he moves out, morph a few more if you have the gas.

So in the end it's all about scouting and having the correct reactions: block the ramp, morph banes, make just enough lings, mineral walk drones behind the queens.
Just another quick tip: you don't need to move the camera to actually see his lings, it costs you too much time, a moving mass in the minimap is all you need to see.
Prev 1 36 37 38 39 40 269 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 40m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 261
StarCraft: Brood War
PianO 431
Snow 157
Nal_rA 108
JulyZerg 82
ajuk12(nOOB) 49
Rock 37
Noble 23
Bale 9
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm94
League of Legends
JimRising 769
Counter-Strike
summit1g7573
Stewie2K1176
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King276
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor99
Other Games
shahzam901
WinterStarcraft384
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick950
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH306
• OhrlRock 5
• Migwel
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• ZZZeroYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota238
League of Legends
• Rush1413
• Lourlo1108
• Stunt438
• HappyZerGling107
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
3h 40m
RSL Revival
3h 40m
ByuN vs Classic
Clem vs Cham
WardiTV European League
9h 40m
Replay Cast
17h 40m
RSL Revival
1d 3h
herO vs SHIN
Reynor vs Cure
WardiTV European League
1d 9h
FEL
1d 9h
Korean StarCraft League
1d 20h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
[ Show More ]
FEL
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
FEL
3 days
BSL: ProLeague
3 days
Dewalt vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-06-28
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.