EPTThe HotS Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 37
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RParks42
United States77 Posts
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El_Draque
United States4 Posts
On April 17 2013 07:39 DilemaH wrote: El_Draque,send some replays of you vs a terran, and explain your thought process. Also state your league. I am Platinum http://drop.sc/324587 http://drop.sc/324586 http://drop.sc/324585 My thought process vs Terran? its very scrambled, i dont know when to expand, i dont know when to be agressive, i dont know when to drone or when to make units. I feel like i go into overdrive when reapers and hellions show up, and my game collapses, i forget things like gas, tech, and injects. I feel like i need to be better at micro AND macro at the same time, and i need to be harassing more, which in P and Z games isnt a problem, but HotS Terran to me is just a whole new animal. They either turtle a huge deathball and crush me, or they are relentless and grind me into dust, I do not know how to trade efficiently vs T | ||
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
I just don't understand, this mu is where i've been training the most (by a LARGE margin) yet I can't figure what units I should properly make even against a 4g... Here are the reps... http://drop.sc/324608 Against 4G... I was told to make 2 spines, but I refused to listen cauz if I do then i'd have had less drones than he has probes. How the fuk can I gain an advantage from there ? Or am I missing something ? http://drop.sc/324607 Against huuuuuuuuuuh... I don't know. I thought it was another Protoss going 4g since in WoL a lot of them are cheesing with pretty much everything really. Turn out he went for robo's play, but even with that in mind, I just couldn't figure out what to respond against that... I hesitated with so many things, I went speed roachs, but I thought it wouldn't be a good idea to make roaches with all those immortals, so I went for spire, but it was very late. I made 2 spores cauz I assumed he'd subitely change his plan by going DTs after having scouted his robo with my overlord's sacrifice... But no, he still went mass immortals. I'm really desperate...  | ||
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DilemaH
Canada402 Posts
Im watching your first game. Heres my feedback: You played your opening like he was a toss. Go 15 hatch, THEN 16 pool. Until you get to masters I HIGHLY recommend scouting a terran with a drone. Check his gas how much hes mined, and check for a rax. If you dont see any rax, check the mineral line to see how many scvs he has. If he has less than 10ish, hes proxxy raxing you, and get some defensive lings. But float your second overlord over your natural to check for bunkers. If you see a cc first, pull 1 drone to kill the scv building the bunker. If you scout no rax at the main and scout a bunker going doing, pull 4+ drones for each SCV. If you KNOW hes 2raxing, and pull ALL your drones but 2 to chase all the units back. 1 fastish gas = reaper/earlier hellions 1 gas = hellions no gas = Good eco/2rax. Usualy goes into mech, but can go for bio/ biomine. 2gas = banshees and/or blue flame hellions. When you see the reapers, you need to stall for the queens. (Take your third at 6-7 minutes to be safe and standard). I recommend 4 queen build, ESPECIALY whence you see reapers and 1 gas. engage reapers with lings ONLY on creep. Its a waste of lings running them off creep. He didnt kill many drones, but he forced many lings. Reapers counter fast 3 hatch in this scenario. WHen you get ling speed, F*CK THOSE REAPERS UP. With zergling support, always let your queen take free shots. You lost with the early game ling forcing. The medivac was overkill. Even before you lost your nat, the game was over. GENERAL NOTE: Sacrifice overlord scout at 6-7. Lots of terran tech/game paths is usualy decided then. game 2: You lost 14 workers from the one hellion attack. Send lings where he can move out so you spot it, and drone scout. When you see the hellions coming and you dont have a wall, split your drones. This was an extremely unorthadox push. Get an overseer scout right when you lair finishes to scout. He had little AA, so mutas would of worked. Sniping the thor with roaches first is a must-do, however. Cool fact: Queens sponge siege tanks hard. It takes 175/35 shots to kill them. In this case, 175/38 shots. Focus down the tanks if youre defending with roaches. You should of noted no expo for a while. this means aggresion. Swarm hosts vs this, in your main, may be an option if you have enough time. Otherwise, no. game 3 When you say him not expanding, spine up your nat choke. They wont kill him, quite the opposite. Itl but you time to get up more units and tech. Overall, scout more often. Go EITHER roach hydra or ling/bane/muta. Rarely shoudl you need to use both units. Make expand and defense it at 6-7. At 15:00; he sacrifised some units. After that, poke in with your roaches first to check the water. If he has little stuff, take one of his expansions worth of SCV, or kill it with enough AA. Killing a terrans SCV mid-late game is more importanmt than the expos. He can just fly another CC back. you lost due to your big desiscions. Expand earlier, and go roach hydra OR ling/bane/muta. Dont mix them both in. | ||
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IPA
United States3206 Posts
When I watch pros (KR/EU/NA), here is what I see: - ZvZ: Ling/Bling into muta. RARE transitions super late game. - ZvT: Ling/Bling/Muta into Ultra. - ZvP: Losing.  I kid, I kid. Generally, some kind of 2/2 hydra timing or corruptor-based army. Or, base trade with muta ling.Now, I believe the new units are good. But I'm just curious as to why viper and SH have not caught on yet. Watch pro league, watch GSL, download replay packs -- they are not represented nearly as much as classic units. Is this just a lack of familiarity? I certainly hope so. I am waiting for some ST.Life style prodigy to show the potential of the new units. To teach scrubby masters like me. Do you find the same thing in your viewing? Any thoughts? | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On April 17 2013 13:45 IPA wrote: This is more of an interesting observation -- I do not see many pro or semi-pro Zs using new HotS units. In virtually any matchup. Ever. I'm a mid masters player and I rarely use any new HotS units. Ever. When I watch pros (KR/EU/NA), here is what I see: - ZvZ: Ling/Bling into muta. RARE transitions super late game. - ZvT: Ling/Bling/Muta into Ultra. - ZvP: Losing. I kid, I kid. Generally, some kind of 2/2 hydra timing or corruptor-based army. Or, base trade with muta ling.Now, I believe the new units are good. But I'm just curious as to why viper and SH have not caught on yet. Watch pro league, watch GSL, download replay packs -- they are not represented nearly as much as classic units. Is this just a lack of familiarity? I certainly hope so. I am waiting for some ST.Life style prodigy to show the potential of the new units. To teach scrubby masters like me. Do you find the same thing in your viewing? Any thoughts? It's the lack of familiarity. I am honestly surprised it is taking so long for other pro zergs to catch on to swarmhost play. Like I won't lie for zvp I expected more zergs/pro's to be using swarmhosts but they still do the same roach/hydra into lose composition. Not a fan. I remember talking to my friends in february saying by late march/early april zergs would be going swarmhost as standard play but so far they don't and so far zergs are struggling in zvp because of the stubborness of roach/hydra. I feel like if you don't go muta, swarmhost is a better option then roach/hydra especially now that protoss players remember how to fight it. In short: Yes i thas to be lack of familiarity because I know for a fact that swarmhosts/vipers aren't bad in zvp at least (zvt vs bio it's still debatable). | ||
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ManiacTheZealot
United States490 Posts
On April 17 2013 14:04 blade55555 wrote: It's the lack of familiarity. I am honestly surprised it is taking so long for other pro zergs to catch on to swarmhost play. Like I won't lie for zvp I expected more zergs/pro's to be using swarmhosts but they still do the same roach/hydra into lose composition. Not a fan. I remember talking to my friends in february saying by late march/early april zergs would be going swarmhost as standard play but so far they don't and so far zergs are struggling in zvp because of the stubborness of roach/hydra. I feel like if you don't go muta, swarmhost is a better option then roach/hydra especially now that protoss players remember how to fight it. In short: Yes i thas to be lack of familiarity because I know for a fact that swarmhosts/vipers aren't bad in zvp at least (zvt vs bio it's still debatable). I will second this. But also when you're in an environment like that training as a team everyone becomes standardized and change is slow because risk taking isn't immediately rewarded with money on the line. You don't want to be the guy holding back your team. That's not to say that this is a bad thing though because if you standardize things you can get people to perform very efficiently. And that's what the koreans do best. It's also been proven that money narrows people's focuses and reduces their abilities to think creatively about things. It's a great thing when you want someone to accomplish a task with clear goals. But if you want innovation the money becomes a problem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candle_problem. http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_pink_on_motivation.html. This test shows how people react when money is on the line. As a spectator it can be sometimes frustrating. I remember last night watching Jaedong on 4 bases with roach/hydra/corruptor and no hive tech slowly losing to colossus. With vipers so easily obtained it shoulda been an easy win for him. But you have to realize they are in a different situation than you mentally. | ||
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learning88
United States160 Posts
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shuttlespeed
512 Posts
On April 17 2013 14:04 blade55555 wrote: It's the lack of familiarity. I am honestly surprised it is taking so long for other pro zergs to catch on to swarmhost play. Like I won't lie for zvp I expected more zergs/pro's to be using swarmhosts but they still do the same roach/hydra into lose composition. Not a fan. I remember talking to my friends in february saying by late march/early april zergs would be going swarmhost as standard play but so far they don't and so far zergs are struggling in zvp because of the stubborness of roach/hydra. I feel like if you don't go muta, swarmhost is a better option then roach/hydra especially now that protoss players remember how to fight it. In short: Yes i thas to be lack of familiarity because I know for a fact that swarmhosts/vipers aren't bad in zvp at least (zvt vs bio it's still debatable). So how would you sugest using swarm host in zvp? Like you say in your zvp guide or has your opinion changed since you wrote it? | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On April 17 2013 15:44 shuttlespeed wrote: So how would you sugest using swarm host in zvp? Like you say in your zvp guide or has your opinion changed since you wrote it? Same way as my guide. I have like 70% win rate on NA, 67% on KR. I wish I could look at the times because I am pretty sure that if I could look at my win % 15 minutes + into a game I would be at like 90% or higher  . | ||
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d07.RiV
Russian Federation50 Posts
Hi everyone. I'm in mid-Platinum and although its rare, I'm very afraid of Immortal Sentry all-ins still. My Roachling control is not very good and was wondering if ling/bane vs Immortal Sentry is good. In theory it sounds good. Banes for Sentries and Zealots and Lings for Stalkers and Immortals. And this composition kid of negates FF int he sense that they would FF between their army and Zerg's army so you can keep poking and retreating. So is this composition viable against the Immortal Sentry all-in? When he's at your base, there is no room to poke and retreat. | ||
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Dynamaxion
United States31 Posts
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d07.RiV
Russian Federation50 Posts
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RuskiPanda
United States2906 Posts
On April 17 2013 18:10 Dynamaxion wrote: You can't use swarmhosts in Zvp because all the protoss has to do is maneuver his army around your locusts. You ideally reposition swarm hosts after every wave of locusts to keep a fluid contain. | ||
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Henk
Netherlands578 Posts
On April 17 2013 18:10 Dynamaxion wrote: You can't use swarmhosts in Zvp because all the protoss has to do is maneuver his army around your locusts. Don't state your opinion as a fact, it may confuse people, especially since what you're saying is 100% wrong. | ||
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serpan
Sweden35 Posts
On April 17 2013 05:38 serpan wrote: Hello, Blade or any other highly ranked zerg player! I'm a top diamond level zerg wondering how I could my gameplay in an efficient way. Here's a replay of me playing vs. a barcode P-player, who was obviously alot better than me, but I think I played this game pretty well if I may say it myself. Here's the flaws I noticed myself: - Lack of scouting - I did not know what his army comp was, but I did a good job keeping track on his third. - Bad drone-count (that's usually not a problem though, not sure how it played out in this game though) - Bad army composition mid/lategame. I threw away alot of hydras attacking his third, and when I chased him later on, I overextended. - Bad upgrades. I usually have 2 evo's, but... - Bad micro - I'm just plain terrible with roach/hydra/viper :p Anyway, I'm aware he played better than me - but I'm here to learn, and I'd really appreciate some help so I can finally get masters. :D THE REPLAY Can anyone help me, please? <3 | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On March 14 2013 03:51 LardMaster wrote: The best cheese build ZvZ? Early pools don't really work anymore, wondering if anyone has come up with something cool in HotS yet. Thanks. why would cheese builds in zvz stop to work if nothing changed for zerg in the first 10 minutes besides faster spores? | ||
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Henk
Netherlands578 Posts
On April 17 2013 21:59 Cheerio wrote: why would cheese builds in zvz stop to work if nothing changed for zerg in the first 10 minutes besides faster spores? Just go 15H mass speedling or ling/bling. Still works wonders. Early pools aren't reliable and you're hoping he's going 15H, otherwise you're screwed. | ||
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mk.ultra
United States54 Posts
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MrPrezbo
92 Posts
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