EPTThe HotS Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 36
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RParks42
United States77 Posts
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IcemanAsi
Israel681 Posts
I usually don't ask for help becuase I can see my faults and errors glaringly but in this game I felt that I played resonably well. My opponent is a diamond level player and so am I so obviously mechanics can be improved on both sides. But I was constantly expanding and researching and denying expansions. I maxed on Ultra/Swarmhost/ling/bane while my opponent made nothing but marine/marauder/medivac and very few mines and I went from being 70 supply and 2 bases ahead to losing the game. I have no idea what I did wrong and what to do next time. Please help. Replay here: http://www.2shared.com/file/c3OPW6QR/ZvT_MMM_loss.html | ||
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ManiacTheZealot
United States490 Posts
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Dave4468
4 Posts
Suppose I see the lings coming out of his base with overlord. What should be my thought process? Should i be making lings, a queen, drones, a spine ?? etc | ||
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ManiacTheZealot
United States490 Posts
On April 16 2013 16:21 Dave4468 wrote: How do you defend 10pool with 15pool/16hatch ? I know 15 pool is supposed to counter 10 pool but for some reason I always end up behind. Suppose I see the lings coming out of his base with overlord. What should be my thought process? Should i be making lings, a queen, drones, a spine ?? etc Thought Process: Is this 10 pool expand, 10 pool banelings or 10 pool speedlings? I need to defend my expansion with 5 drones and zerglings against 10 pool expand I need to cancel my hatchery and block my ramp with zerglings against 10 pool speedlings I need to cancel my hatchery and put up a spine crawler at the edge of my creep against 10 pool banelings I'll be hard to know if its banelings or speedlings in time. So just go 2 queen with the spine and rebuild the drone you used for the spine. Put down a creep tumor and block your ramp with your two queens. You can now take gas and get to 16/3 on minerals and gas. Building a banelings nest with your first 50 gas and re-expand. Banelings will probably come before you block off your ramp target fire them with the spine and queen. If it's speedlings they shouldn't be able to get past your zerglings on the ramp. | ||
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nanoscorp
United States1237 Posts
On April 16 2013 15:26 IcemanAsi wrote: Hi, I usually don't ask for help becuase I can see my faults and errors glaringly but in this game I felt that I played resonably well. My opponent is a diamond level player and so am I so obviously mechanics can be improved on both sides. But I was constantly expanding and researching and denying expansions. I maxed on Ultra/Swarmhost/ling/bane while my opponent made nothing but marine/marauder/medivac and very few mines and I went from being 70 supply and 2 bases ahead to losing the game. I have no idea what I did wrong and what to do next time. Please help. Replay here: http://www.2shared.com/file/c3OPW6QR/ZvT_MMM_loss.html I think better infestor control could have won you that game a couple times. It didn't look like you had your infestors on a separate hotkey. If you can get in the habit of working with at least 2 army hotkeys you'll be able to keep your key units like banes or infestors on a short leash instead of just pushing them forward with everything. You also could work on your lategame mineral dumping. You moved out as you were maxing out, which was good, but you didn't have much of a larva bank and there wasn't any static defense at your more exposed expansions. Your bank isn't doing much if you can't remax and lose bases to a single drop. A smoother transition into more hatcheries and more spines/spores would have made it harder on your opponent. Stylistic issue: maybe try working in a few more queens in the late game? Transfuse on Ultras is pretty good, and you can poke away at his medivac fleet as well. Your early creep spread looked great, but didn't really get replaced after your opponent erased it with scans. | ||
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DogDirt
United States10 Posts
EDIT: Also anyone have any problems lately with terran doom dropping? Had one terran drop in my base with about 6-9medivacs most full with marine maurader. Boosted past my defensive mutas/spores and wrecked me, even with scouting him out of the base any mutas would have been killed off. or too slow to catch him to do any serious damage. Only happened once but seemed crazy strong | ||
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StoRm_res
Switzerland891 Posts
I dont want to play boring games where nothing happens for 20 minutes while both macro up, I need something that gives me offensive power midgame but transitions well into the lategame (of course if you dont screw up to much  ) | ||
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StoRm_res
Switzerland891 Posts
On April 17 2013 00:55 DogDirt wrote: Whats the most efficient way of defending an all in speedling expo build? Not sure exactly on the hatch pool timings, but i faced this three times in a row and lost to it. The only way i can beat it, is to do the same build and i can win. Although i prefer macro builds into muta play so i need some help defending this. Do i just need to rush banelings? i've tried defending with evo chambers/spine crawlers(2-3 per base) + lings. I can keep them from running into my main but i always lose my expo and get too far behind. Or should i just keep playing this dumb build in every single game just to be safe, zvz...aaahhggg EDIT: Also anyone have any problems lately with terran doom dropping? Had one terran drop in my base with about 6-9medivacs most full with marine maurader. Boosted past my defensive mutas/spores and wrecked me, even with scouting him out of the base any mutas would have been killed off. or too slow to catch him to do any serious damage. Only happened once but seemed crazy strong So is this a hatch first build into speedlings or fast speedlings into hatch? Since zvz is the only thing I'm good in in HotS I can maybe help you ^^ I open 15 hatch 15 pool almost every game, if I identify a lot of speedlings I get baneling nest before I start ling speed. If he arrives before your banes are ready you really have to look out, theres one crucial thing: don't let your queen die, and try to def with your slow lings and drones and always cover the queen. Also in my experience, if they go 1 hatch lings you can even recover from losing your hatch because they invested a lot in these fast speedlings. Provided of course you didnt lose to many drones | ||
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DogDirt
United States10 Posts
Like i said only gold(been top 2 with 13-4 so hopefully plat soon) but its been extremely effective at the lower leagues for me although it could just be my macro is better idk. @stormres its pool then hatch, with gas somewhere inbetween(im guessing 14pool 15 hatch or so? they hatch a bit later after me and i do 15 hatch 14 pool) So im trying to defend without over producing units since they have an expo around the same time as well. its a battle between droning or spines + lings. Ill try some defensive bane lings out early | ||
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MstrJinbo
United States1251 Posts
On April 17 2013 01:31 DogDirt wrote: @stormres its pool then hatch, with gas somewhere inbetween(im guessing 14pool 15 hatch or so? they hatch a bit later after me and i do 15 hatch 14 pool) So im trying to defend without over producing units since they have an expo around the same time as well. its a battle between droning or spines + lings. Ill try some defensive bane lings out early They almost never get the hatch at 15 with this kind of opener. Earliest is going to be 17. You basically ID this opener by the hatch timing. For instance you hatch first and have your overlord scout see a hatch only slightly behind yours, he did a 15 pool 15 hatch. If it is less than halfway done it is some pool/gas or gas/pool variant. Baneling nest before speed is very safe in that situation. Your queens can also block the ramp. Remember 2 banes can kill a large cluster of his banes and 1 bane kills a ton of lings. A spine crawler can keep a single ling from detonating your banes. Probably roaches are the worst response as you will tend to either invest so much into fast roaches to eliminate your advantage, or simply not have enough roaches to keep the hatch from getting targeted down. | ||
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Willzyx
Canada1 Post
Am I reacting in the wrong way? Or just not fast enough? Should I put the spines in my mineral line instead and try to block my ramp with the queens to keep them from just marching up into my main? Nothing in my tech path besides queens and spines really works against roaches and I never seem to have enough to handle the push. | ||
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HiOT
Sweden1000 Posts
On April 17 2013 02:09 Willzyx wrote: I'm a Zerg lowbie (was Silver in WoL but I'm just starting to play again after a long while) and I'm having a hell of a time dealing with early Roach pressure in ZvZ. Been training myself on Blade's mutalisk build but I never have enough by the 6:00-7:00 window to defend a 5 roach + zergling push. My zergling at their ramp sees their push and I react by building 2-3 spines in front of my natural and pulling my queens forward, but they're never done in time to deflect the attack. I might have one or two pop, but at that point they're already starting to take damage and falling apart. Zerglings and banelings are obviously no help, and I don't quite have mutas yet. Am I reacting in the wrong way? Or just not fast enough? Should I put the spines in my mineral line instead and try to block my ramp with the queens to keep them from just marching up into my main? Nothing in my tech path besides queens and spines really works against roaches and I never seem to have enough to handle the push. When he moves out, wait 10 sec, runby with lings into his mineralline. His army is half away on the map, defend and win. | ||
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Ender142
14 Posts
On April 17 2013 01:19 StoRm_res wrote: Is there any aggressive midgame strategy against protoss? I tried hydras, but then you're fucked when colossi come out. Only thing that seems to work is muta, but that doesnt work well for me against stargate openings. I dont want to play boring games where nothing happens for 20 minutes while both macro up, I need something that gives me offensive power midgame but transitions well into the lategame (of course if you dont screw up to much )Try a 2 base queen+swarmhost with nydus. It hits at around 9:30 with 6 queens and 6-8 swarmhosts with more in production. Drop the nydus about a screen away from their natural. If you take a 3rd and get a hydra den + 2 evos after you setup the swarmhosts, this transitions well into a SH/Hydra/Viper late game, which is very strong against toss. Remember to have a couple of overseers with your queens to snipe observers, and keep an eye on your queens for transfusions. Toss seems to have a very hard time dealing with this. | ||
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MstrJinbo
United States1251 Posts
On April 17 2013 02:09 Willzyx wrote: I'm a Zerg lowbie (was Silver in WoL but I'm just starting to play again after a long while) and I'm having a hell of a time dealing with early Roach pressure in ZvZ. Been training myself on Blade's mutalisk build but I never have enough by the 6:00-7:00 window to defend a 5 roach + zergling push. My zergling at their ramp sees their push and I react by building 2-3 spines in front of my natural and pulling my queens forward, but they're never done in time to deflect the attack. I might have one or two pop, but at that point they're already starting to take damage and falling apart. Zerglings and banelings are obviously no help, and I don't quite have mutas yet. Am I reacting in the wrong way? Or just not fast enough? Should I put the spines in my mineral line instead and try to block my ramp with the queens to keep them from just marching up into my main? Nothing in my tech path besides queens and spines really works against roaches and I never seem to have enough to handle the push. Weirdly enough, for this attack, the zerglings are the biggest threat. When you have lings, queens and a spine 5 roaches are not all that scary. Add the zerglings and your defenses will melt. You should have a spine crawler already (as in preemptively) complete. Then have banelings to kill zerglings and zerglings to cleanup the roaches. Try to engage with the spine and keep him from walking past into your main. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On April 17 2013 02:09 Willzyx wrote: I'm a Zerg lowbie (was Silver in WoL but I'm just starting to play again after a long while) and I'm having a hell of a time dealing with early Roach pressure in ZvZ. Been training myself on Blade's mutalisk build but I never have enough by the 6:00-7:00 window to defend a 5 roach + zergling push. My zergling at their ramp sees their push and I react by building 2-3 spines in front of my natural and pulling my queens forward, but they're never done in time to deflect the attack. I might have one or two pop, but at that point they're already starting to take damage and falling apart. Zerglings and banelings are obviously no help, and I don't quite have mutas yet. Am I reacting in the wrong way? Or just not fast enough? Should I put the spines in my mineral line instead and try to block my ramp with the queens to keep them from just marching up into my main? Nothing in my tech path besides queens and spines really works against roaches and I never seem to have enough to handle the push. You should be scouting with lings to see this coming in advance. Once you see him doing an attack like this (due to scouting) you should be making quiet a few spines and ling/bane. If you hold and don't take economic damage you are ahead in tech and your economy will be better. | ||
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Decendos
Germany1341 Posts
is there any way to see if the opponent goes speed or banes first from his gas count? or do i have to scout that with my scouting drone? | ||
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serpan
Sweden35 Posts
I'm a top diamond level zerg wondering how I could my gameplay in an efficient way. Here's a replay of me playing vs. a barcode P-player, who was obviously alot better than me, but I think I played this game pretty well if I may say it myself. Here's the flaws I noticed myself: - Lack of scouting - I did not know what his army comp was, but I did a good job keeping track on his third. - Bad drone-count (that's usually not a problem though, not sure how it played out in this game though) - Bad army composition mid/lategame. I threw away alot of hydras attacking his third, and when I chased him later on, I overextended. - Bad upgrades. I usually have 2 evo's, but... - Bad micro - I'm just plain terrible with roach/hydra/viper :p Anyway, I'm aware he played better than me - but I'm here to learn, and I'd really appreciate some help so I can finally get masters. :D THE REPLAY | ||
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El_Draque
United States4 Posts
My winrate is 70% vs P 55% vs Z 39% vs T idk what to do anymore. If i even survive the early Reaper/Hellion domination of my drones, i get crushed by some kind of marine/hellbat/tank push and/or drop into main my overall plan is to go zergling/baneling/mutalisk and Roaches if i need to, but i am getting absolutely slammed game after game. idk what to do. When do i take a third? how do i stop 4-6 reapers backed by 4 hellions? | ||
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DilemaH
Canada402 Posts
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