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Thanks for the response guys. I definitely think I get too caught up trying to look for actual buildings and units, like you would do in zvt/zvp, i.e. a fast armory signifies possible hellbat/mine drop, twilight could me quick dts, etc. ZvZ is just not like that, so I have to be more aware of drones and subtle things like that.
In the same zvz realm, a question about 10 pool..
I've been watching GSL this season, and alot of those guys do 9 or 10 pools in zvz.
Obviously, their micro abilities transcend the mere mortal, but is a 9/10 pool still a valid opener in diamond+ level ZvZ? I would like to be able to occasionally have an aggressive option of play, just for something different.
If so, are you supposed to grab an early gas with 10 pool and hard pressure/all in? Or just make like 8 or so lings, and expand behind that and drone as much as possible.
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On April 19 2013 22:00 JohnJohnson wrote:
Thanks for the response guys. I definitely think I get too caught up trying to look for actual buildings and units, like you would do in zvt/zvp, i.e. a fast armory signifies possible hellbat/mine drop, twilight could me quick dts, etc. ZvZ is just not like that, so I have to be more aware of drones and subtle things like that.
In the same zvz realm, a question about 10 pool..
I've been watching GSL this season, and alot of those guys do 9 or 10 pools in zvz.
Obviously, their micro abilities transcend the mere mortal, but is a 9/10 pool still a valid opener in diamond+ level ZvZ? I would like to be able to occasionally have an aggressive option of play, just for something different.
If so, are you supposed to grab an early gas with 10 pool and hard pressure/all in? Or just make like 8 or so lings, and expand behind that and drone as much as possible.
They do it to because a lot of pros go hatch first.
You said before that, in your league, most people open pool first, so I don't think you'd accomplish much with 10 pool.
If you want to be more aggresive, I think you'd have more success with speed/bane timings like the ones you are having trouble against.
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Hey guys, I know you're supposed to go 0/1, 1/1 1/2 2/2 in muta vs muta. I was thinking though, wouldn't going 0/2 -> 1/1? I know 0/2 mutas trade cost efficiently with 1/1 mutas (if you have same amount of mutas).
The big deal is the small ~30 sec window you're giving your opponent in which he has 1/1 and you have 0/1. But what if you just sit your mutas over your spores/queen in that period of time?
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In ZvP, when opening 15 pool 16 hatch, what should i build first, the queen or the lings? Also, should i keep the second overlord over the natural to spot for pylons? If i do, will i be able to have it ready for scouting the protoss' main, since my first overlord is usually checking the gases in natural? When can i move it from over the hatch?
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anyone know how to deal with mmm+ hellbat pushes? ive been losing to it from the constant pushes and drops of this comp. i always out upgrade them but the hellbats destroy my lings. i cant get muta and tech to ultras in this either as i never have the gas from trying to hold of the constant battles with ling, bling roach muta.
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I need some help in ZvP (Diamond Level)
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-281217.jpg)
So basically it's a game where I could break the Protoss at 10:00-15:00 minute mark and I was left clueless on what to do, even if he was only on 2 bases he had a massive bunch of cannons and I was afraid to attack into him.
After that I just built random groups of units without a clear idea what to do here.
If it was WoL, what I would have done is go up to 5-6 bases, 120 drones and go into Broodlord+Infestor+Corruptor+Spine Forest and just siege his nat, but here I don't have any composition to fall back to, and a long time I was afraid of some Robo based 2 base allin, so I started the spire.
I think if I built a bunch of corruptors and hopefully kill his Colossi and air after seeing his Oracles, I could flood him with Roaches and win the game there, but he still has forcefields and cannons.
After throwing my army twice at him (...) I tried to go into that Swarm Host-Infestor-Viper composition I saw on one of day9 dailies but I died before I had Neural.
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To be honest I got a few problems in every matchup:
- ZvP: Is gasless 3-Base still viable? I get crushed everytime I try it 'cause I don't really know how to follow it up against the new forms of aggression/Harrass coming from the Toss (Air). And if I don't go for a gasless 3rd base I somehow feel as if I'm behind the entire game - and I get crushed by some kind of Toss Deathball (Colossus/Void Ray).
- ZvZ: 1. When do you guys switch to Mutalisks? I miss the timing way too often and get crushed by some Roach/Ling pushes. I mean, obviously I'm able to hold it, but I lose way too much (-> Too early mutalisks -> Loss). And sometimes, I'm behind on Mutalisks (-> Opponent has more Mutas -> Loss). I just don't really know when this transition is viable and miss the timing way too often.
2. Is there a way to avoid using mutalisks? I mean, normally I win once I reach a "Muta vs Muta"-Situation and we start off with an even Mutaliskcount. But I just don't like it to be honest xD
- ZvT: Hellbats... A Roach Warren just to defend against the drops? I just don't get rid of the feeling that it's not possible to defend with Lings only and not falling behind (Waste of Larvae -> Less Drones -> Behind).
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On April 19 2013 22:22 Asolmanx wrote:
In ZvP, when opening 15 pool 16 hatch, what should i build first, the queen or the lings? Also, should i keep the second overlord over the natural to spot for pylons? If i do, will i be able to have it ready for scouting the protoss' main, since my first overlord is usually checking the gases in natural? When can i move it from over the hatch?
I would say that if your opponent is actively probe scouting, I would get a pair of lings first. That way you can chase it out and keep it from building pylons, etc.
If you do go lings first, then you can also move out your 2nd overlord faster, for you won't need it to scout if you have lings running around.
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On April 19 2013 22:22 Asolmanx wrote:
In ZvP, when opening 15 pool 16 hatch, what should i build first, the queen or the lings? Also, should i keep the second overlord over the natural to spot for pylons? If i do, will i be able to have it ready for scouting the protoss' main, since my first overlord is usually checking the gases in natural? When can i move it from over the hatch?
This depends. For me if I scout he forge first and not nexus first I make 4 lings first, if I see nexus first I make queen first.
Keep the first overlord and have the 2nd overlord behind natural.
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Ok, please help...
I just had a game and I REALLY go crazy because of this ZvP.
He played Templar(Archon)/Void Ray/Chargelot ALL GAME LONG. He collected about 66% of my Minerals and I BARELY won - but at least I won. I mean, I tried everything - I don't think there's a single Zerg Unit I didn't build during that game (Teched the entire fucking Zerg-Techtree xD ) but somehow I wasn't able to come close to a cost-efficient trade - so I just fought him over and over again until he was out of resources. My question's just:
What's the Unit composition I should aim for?
Very simple question, because I felt like tech switching all the time in order to force him to react, but somehow his unit--composition did quite well against everything I did. So, I'd just like to know what you do once he has some Templar/Archons/Void Rays on the field...
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In ZvP, I'm trying to go roach/hydra into corruptor/bl. Sadly, when I went roach/hydra, he went mass carriers with ht(psi storm). How do I defend against this composition.
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On April 20 2013 07:28 Swisslink wrote:
Ok, please help...
I just had a game and I REALLY go crazy because of this ZvP.
He played Templar(Archon)/Void Ray/Chargelot ALL GAME LONG. He collected about 66% of my Minerals and I BARELY won - but at least I won. I mean, I tried everything - I don't think there's a single Zerg Unit I didn't build during that game (Teched the entire fucking Zerg-Techtree xD ) but somehow I wasn't able to come close to a cost-efficient trade - so I just fought him over and over again until he was out of resources. My question's just:
What's the Unit composition I should aim for?
Very simple question, because I felt like tech switching all the time in order to force him to react, but somehow his unit--composition did quite well against everything I did. So, I'd just like to know what you do once he has some Templar/Archons/Void Rays on the field...
Um that composition is really easy to kill make 12-14 swarmhosts, then roach/hydra support until hive then add in ultralisk, if he starts adding in colossi then you add in some vipers.
On April 20 2013 08:48 HeyAngel_01 wrote:
In ZvP, I'm trying to go roach/hydra into corruptor/bl. Sadly, when I went roach/hydra, he went mass carriers with ht(psi storm). How do I defend against this composition.
Roach/hydra into corruptor/bl is awful. In general roach/hydra is ok, but I would recommend either learning hydra into muta, swarmhost/roach/hydra or muta play.
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On April 20 2013 02:22 A_Scarecrow wrote:
anyone know how to deal with mmm+ hellbat pushes? ive been losing to it from the constant pushes and drops of this comp. i always out upgrade them but the hellbats destroy my lings. i cant get muta and tech to ultras in this either as i never have the gas from trying to hold of the constant battles with ling, bling roach muta.
any1 got any ideas?
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On April 20 2013 12:26 A_Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2013 02:22 A_Scarecrow wrote:
anyone know how to deal with mmm+ hellbat pushes? ive been losing to it from the constant pushes and drops of this comp. i always out upgrade them but the hellbats destroy my lings. i cant get muta and tech to ultras in this either as i never have the gas from trying to hold of the constant battles with ling, bling roach muta. any1 got any ideas?
You should use roach/speedbane/ling to deal with it. Do not even move the lings in until after the hellbats are either focused on the roaches or have been focused down enough that there's only a few left. If T goes for this kind of push he can't really expand decently though so if you continuously defend, you should come out ahead and then able to counter-push if he tries to expo.
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On April 20 2013 12:26 A_Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2013 02:22 A_Scarecrow wrote:
anyone know how to deal with mmm+ hellbat pushes? ive been losing to it from the constant pushes and drops of this comp. i always out upgrade them but the hellbats destroy my lings. i cant get muta and tech to ultras in this either as i never have the gas from trying to hold of the constant battles with ling, bling roach muta. any1 got any ideas?
Hellbats are light armored and slow moving with a very short range and they tend to clump up. This translates into banelings destroying them easily. Don't lead with your zerglings they will evaporate. Lead with your banelings and follow with your zerglings. They can't stim and run away so they'll just die. As far as drops go I recommend a spine/spore and quick reaction.
This holds true for mech+hellbats as well.
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On April 20 2013 02:55 Swisslink wrote:
To be honest I got a few problems in every matchup:
- ZvT: Hellbats... A Roach Warren just to defend against the drops? I just don't get rid of the feeling that it's not possible to defend with Lings only and not falling behind (Waste of Larvae -> Less Drones -> Behind).
If he's dropping hellbat that means he didn't expand for a long time. So if you see no expands it's safe to assume he's going either banshees or hellbats drops. Either way, it's a good time to put 1 spore per base. If they try to drop right in your minerals , there's simply no way the medic won't get damaged. This is where you need to focus the medic with your queen(s). Hellbat without medic are way easier to deal, even speedlings will be enough to take care of them.
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when is the best moment to start your uprgrades ? and when should i get my evolution champers ?i want to understand in what part of the game should i do that ! thanks alot
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On April 19 2013 22:17 Henk wrote:
Hey guys, I know you're supposed to go 0/1, 1/1 1/2 2/2 in muta vs muta. I was thinking though, wouldn't going 0/2 -> 1/1? I know 0/2 mutas trade cost efficiently with 1/1 mutas (if you have same amount of mutas).
The big deal is the small ~30 sec window you're giving your opponent in which he has 1/1 and you have 0/1. But what if you just sit your mutas over your spores/queen in that period of time?
Muta vs Muta, Get the Armor first,
Muta vs roach/hydra, get the weps first
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On April 20 2013 20:16 potsos wrote:
when is the best moment to start your uprgrades ? and when should i get my evolution champers ?i want to understand in what part of the game should i do that ! thanks alot
In zvt you want your first double ups around the 7-9 min range. Once they complete you should get 2/2 asap. followed by 3/3
There is a range because your build must change if the terran opens up with gas (pressure) expand. Or stays gasless.
zvp, if it is a single upgrade evo (like range) you want to start it around the 7:30 - 8:30 range.
if double ( 8 min - 9 min) range.
zvz, Standard muta vs muta: you get our upgrade once the spire is done
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On April 19 2013 22:17 Henk wrote:
Hey guys, I know you're supposed to go 0/1, 1/1 1/2 2/2 in muta vs muta. I was thinking though, wouldn't going 0/2 -> 1/1? I know 0/2 mutas trade cost efficiently with 1/1 mutas (if you have same amount of mutas).
The big deal is the small ~30 sec window you're giving your opponent in which he has 1/1 and you have 0/1. But what if you just sit your mutas over your spores/queen in that period of time?
The advantage you get from 0/2 compared to 1/1 is so small that its not worth the risks.
1) 225 gas on relatively small eco (sometimes even 4gas) hurts muta count alot actually
2) as you pointed out it makes longer -> some fights can be forced and you wont be ready
The efficiency you get for that is 7% in direct fight wich is not that much (with that you win 28vs30)
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EPT
