for ZvP, you can go fast lings, 3 base then transit to hydras.

With your first wave of hydras, get infestor pit, get hive and then get roach warren.
Once hive is done get vipers and add roaches to your hydra mix.
Trade army w/ toss while expanding and get double spire to tech switch.

For ZvT, against bio is ling, bling and mutas into ultras or broodlord.

For ZvZ, mass roaches into hydras or infestors. 13p/15h w/ block natural to get early roach 1/1 timings is very popular. Or someone open early 2 base mutas to get map control.

Hope this helps!

Theilo

Germany26 Posts

September 08 2015 09:24 GMT

#5342

<3 love this thread

brickrd

United States4894 Posts

September 08 2015 13:54 GMT

#5343

i think broodlords are pretty uncommon against bio unless it's a very very very long game on a large map... usually you would want to finish the game on lair or go ultras from a lead. if terran isn't dropping or harassing at all (which a good bio player usually will) and you want to go for kind of an allin push on his 4th/5th planetary then broodlords can work. they just take so long to tech up to and it's very hard to move them around the map to defend your outer bases in the extreme late game

also i'm not sure what reddog means by "block natural to get early roach 1/1 timings" o_O
edit: ohh he means walling your own natural, okay. that makes sense. 13p is pretty safe, but on ladder that's fine. you can go 15p and still defend early pools.

AbouSV

Germany1278 Posts

September 09 2015 09:55 GMT

#5344

In ZvT I love going full Dark, with early roach warren for 4 roaches (for early hellion timing), to mass ling bling roach and latter spire for corruptor, not muta.
You have to have a good map awareness since corruptor are slower than muta and you have to kill the medivac before it unload if you don't want to back part of your army, but this allows you to have sooooo many bling, and to go +3/+3 more easily, and then have a more balanced choice between ultra and brood.

brickrd

United States4894 Posts

September 09 2015 10:24 GMT

#5345

he often makes significantly more than 4 roaches with that style although i suppose you don't have to if you're not going to threaten aggression

AbouSV

Germany1278 Posts

September 10 2015 10:04 GMT

#5346

Yeah, I mean automatic 4 roaches, but you can make more for an aggression, or in case of heavy hellbat medivac or similar.

MoosyDoosy

United States4519 Posts

September 22 2015 01:35 GMT

#5347

So did the meta change from 2014 at all or no.

I know about the whole mech debacle and how ByuL is good at handling that so I can look into videos of him if I want.

Asking more about Zerg and Protoss. Is Muta vs Muta play still dominating the ladder and is Protoss still opening with 1 Stargate -> transition? The latter is important as it'll determine whether I go mass Speedlings into Mutalisks or Roaches.

dr3am_b3ing

Canada188 Posts

September 22 2015 13:06 GMT

#5348

Something for you zergs, I've been getting away with Nexus first into a 1 gas 7 gate on 2p maps and there's almost nothing you can do to stop my push. Figure out how to deal with that one

Ej_

47656 Posts

September 22 2015 13:24 GMT

#5349

On September 22 2015 22:06 dr3am_b3ing wrote:
Something for you zergs, I've been getting away with Nexus first into a 1 gas 7 gate on 2p maps and there's almost nothing you can do to stop my push. Figure out how to deal with that one

9pool

glitryeye

1 Post

September 22 2015 19:00 GMT

#5350

--- Nuked ---

dr3am_b3ing

Canada188 Posts

September 23 2015 14:25 GMT

#5351

On September 22 2015 22:24 Ej_ wrote:

Show nested quote +

9pool

How many of you are actually going 9 pool instead of 15 hatch though

Gullis

Sweden740 Posts

September 28 2015 18:38 GMT

#5352

How do I defend against reaper, normal rax timing, when he puts a bunker between your hatchery and the minerals?
I brought 2 drones to try and kill the scv but there is a sweet spot where it cant be hit.

brickrd

United States4894 Posts

September 28 2015 22:01 GMT

#5353

On September 29 2015 03:38 Gullis wrote:
How do I defend against reaper, normal rax timing, when he puts a bunker between your hatchery and the minerals?
I brought 2 drones to try and kill the scv but there is a sweet spot where it cant be hit.

just make your queen and 8-10 lings and kill it. even if he salvages, he's investing 100 minerals early in his build, for 100 minerals you can have 4 extra lings on top of the 4-6 you normally make against reapers. a reaper can't kill the lings fast enough to save the bunker as long as you use your queen to focus the SCV whenever it's outside the bunker repairing

if your reaction is late and you feel really screwed you can make a spine and then cancel if you defend before it finishes

BigRedDog

461 Posts

September 29 2015 04:09 GMT

#5354

On September 23 2015 23:25 dr3am_b3ing wrote:

Show nested quote +

How many of you are actually going 9 pool instead of 15 hatch though

I've been messing with 8 pool against Toss once in a while even on 2 players map. It is a good break up against the boring meta game. Sometimes you can catch a toss off guard and get a good break.

EngrishTeacher

Canada1109 Posts

October 03 2015 13:28 GMT

#5355

When opening 3 hatch before pool against scouting a very aggressive protoss that chronos out 4-5 stalkers before I have ling speed, I sometimes get trashed by the kiting stalkers and then die to an eventual 4 gate followup. Same thing happened to Hyun against herO, he was ahead in drones, had a few queens and lots of slowlings out, but the kiting stalkers just did way too much damage.

Is it worth it to get an early gas, say right after your natural is finished, so you're on a total of 18 drones with an overlord morphing with 1 morphing into an extractor? What's the best defense against this kind of aggression?

courtpanda

866 Posts

October 03 2015 20:30 GMT

#5356

getting back into sc2, have a few questions about matchups and build orders

ZvT
-is hatch first still standard?
-how do you play against mech? i've been trying mutas to contain them into broodlords

ZvP
-is there any reason I can't go hatch first?
-What 2 base timings should I be looking out for, and at what time?

brickrd

United States4894 Posts

October 03 2015 20:57 GMT

#5357

On October 04 2015 05:30 courtpanda wrote:
getting back into sc2, have a few questions about matchups and build orders

ZvT
-is hatch first still standard?
-how do you play against mech? i've been trying mutas to contain them into broodlords

ZvP
-is there any reason I can't go hatch first?
-What 2 base timings should I be looking out for, and at what time?

hatch first is 99% of zvts, yes. vs mech 2 base muta is a typical opener, common followups are a massive roach push into roach hydra viper or straight to queen ultra with melee ups. your endgame army is queen ultra hydra and 5-10 vipers for mass abduct (hydras are for DPS, ultras tank, queens transfuse). keep your vipers alive, transfuse them if you have to. broodlords are fine if he doesnt make mass viking but currently mass viking is common in tvz mech. if he's on heavy skyterran, like mass raven viking, you probably want infestors too. if you take a good fight and have a large bank, you can end the game with a massive muta switch (like 30-50 mutas) but this depends heavily on his army after the fight.

you can hatch first vs p if you have strong and well practiced anti cannon rush micro, otherwise you will get cannon rushed. as for 2 base timings, it's protoss. anything can be a 2 base timing until you see a third base, you just have to overlord scout and poke with lings at the front to see what's going on. typical macro play for protoss is a 7-8 minute third with mass sentry into blink stalkers, sometimes with an empty third nexus allin, sometimes with a transition to storm (colossus is still seen on ladder but it's less popular now because of vipers). oracle openers are also common so make blind spores around 7 minutes if you don't get a scout

courtpanda

866 Posts

October 04 2015 10:57 GMT

#5358

also, how do you micro against widow mines? ive lost so many games because i dont know how to work around them

Ej_

47656 Posts

October 04 2015 11:04 GMT

#5359

On October 04 2015 19:57 courtpanda wrote:
also, how do you micro against widow mines? ive lost so many games because i dont know how to work around them

send small packs of lings (4-8) to bait WM shots into bio, if you want to attack the bio army (usually you should just delaythe parade push until your eco is big enough to eventually overwhelm the Terran, sending off small portions of ling/bane when he's pushing on your creep) - make sure to spread your units and send split lings first

WM will always do damage, you should aim to minimize the damage or try to draw their splash into Terran army

mutalisks should also be used to snipe stray WMs that are lagging behind Terran army/burrowed far enough from it

CursOr

United States6335 Posts

October 04 2015 18:01 GMT

#5360

^^

move command your lings in, do not attack move them. They will go in further and bait more shots.

same with your ling/bane army - the lings in front should be move commanded so they run as far into the bio as possible.

get at least 2 but 3 or 4 if you can groups of banelings and make sure they are right clicked on marines. if you just let em A move, marines will stim back while your banes det on marauders or tanks.

there is a lot to do in those 5 seconds.