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It was different (focused gas on ling upgrades over blings and skipping 3rd base gas and fast 4th). The "style" itself died after widow mine but the build itself to set your 3rd base, defend 8-9m aggression, good creep spread, safety with greend etc was all included.
e: Think of stephano's zerglings when he went for over 60wins in a row.
I think I can tinker with this build a lot so thanks a lot.
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Yeah I think that build can be a good start to get to the one you remember. The principle should be pretty much the same, just a bit different implementation. You can pretty much follow that and add 5th and 6th gases only after your fourth has like 12 drones or something (If you even need the gases at all... you might just kill the opponent).
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On August 27 2015 17:53 Karpfen wrote:
Yeah I think that build can be a good start to get to the one you remember. The principle should be pretty much the same, just a bit different implementation. You can pretty much follow that and add 5th and 6th gases only after your fourth has like 12 drones or something (If you even need the gases at all... you might just kill the opponent).
dont you think this is slightly outdated with developments in PL/GSL etc.
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On August 28 2015 10:11 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2015 17:53 Karpfen wrote:
Yeah I think that build can be a good start to get to the one you remember. The principle should be pretty much the same, just a bit different implementation. You can pretty much follow that and add 5th and 6th gases only after your fourth has like 12 drones or something (If you even need the gases at all... you might just kill the opponent). dont you think this is slightly outdated with developments in PL/GSL etc.
It is but that's what he wanted.
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How the FUCK do we fight mech? I try making vipers but I can't even land blinding clouds because of these retarded walls of turrets, and if i try to move in to clear the turrets with clouds I get thor'd, I can't use swarm hosts to zone them out because lamao swarm hosts, i can't kill them early game because widow mines give them enough time to get tanks out, I don't understand?? Why would they kill our only counter to mech??
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On August 29 2015 03:12 Sickel1 wrote:
How the FUCK do we fight mech? I try making vipers but I can't even land blinding clouds because of these retarded walls of turrets, and if i try to move in to clear the turrets with clouds I get thor'd, I can't use swarm hosts to zone them out because lamao swarm hosts, i can't kill them early game because widow mines give them enough time to get tanks out, I don't understand?? Why would they kill our only counter to mech??
2base muta into mass +1 speed roach attack
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On August 29 2015 03:12 Sickel1 wrote:
How the FUCK do we fight mech? I try making vipers but I can't even land blinding clouds because of these retarded walls of turrets, and if i try to move in to clear the turrets with clouds I get thor'd, I can't use swarm hosts to zone them out because lamao swarm hosts, i can't kill them early game because widow mines give them enough time to get tanks out, I don't understand?? Why would they kill our only counter to mech??
Have like 8 vipers or so+ hydra ultra queen and make spores and evos near the terran so that it's hard for him to move out without suffering heavy losses. You just charge in, spam abducts and clouds and kill the terran army. You won't trade effectively but you will trade well enough considering your way superior income. Whining balance is no use especially since there is no data showing that mech is op vs Z. Is it boring and bad to watch? For most people it is but there doesn't seem to be a balance issue.
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On August 29 2015 03:12 Sickel1 wrote:
How the FUCK do we fight mech? I try making vipers but I can't even land blinding clouds because of these retarded walls of turrets, and if i try to move in to clear the turrets with clouds I get thor'd, I can't use swarm hosts to zone them out because lamao swarm hosts, i can't kill them early game because widow mines give them enough time to get tanks out, I don't understand?? Why would they kill our only counter to mech??
roach hydra viper with optional broodlord/muta switch
the most important part most people often forget is that you can take almost the whole map.
just watch this game i played today. maybe it can help you.
on gg tracker you can see that he was ahead in army most of the times but couldt move out. you just have to trade constantly
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6162923
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The thing keeping me down in this game and kills my motivation from time to time is zvp. This matchup ist just bad and protoss is a too easy and good race. What are the standard builds here really? I've tried them ALL and he just counters and i have nothing to put against. In zvt and zvz I just play until i win or lose, simple. But in zvp it's like 90% strategy and transitions. It has been like this for many years now and I have no idea how to play it regular. Ling roach into what? Ling hydra into what? Roach hydra into what? You feel stuck in the game and the transition is not easy. Protoss just makes his army bigger and bigger until he wins, no transition, nothing really needed but some forcefields in the beginning and then he wins eventually. Have you got any tips for this? How do you play zvp? I'm top 8 master with 30% winratio vs p.
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On September 01 2015 00:22 NaboliC wrote:
The thing keeping me down in this game and kills my motivation from time to time is zvp. This matchup ist just bad and protoss is a too easy and good race. What are the standard builds here really? I've tried them ALL and he just counters and i have nothing to put against. In zvt and zvz I just play until i win or lose, simple. But in zvp it's like 90% strategy and transitions. It has been like this for many years now and I have no idea how to play it regular. Ling roach into what? Ling hydra into what? Roach hydra into what? You feel stuck in the game and the transition is not easy. Protoss just makes his army bigger and bigger until he wins, no transition, nothing really needed but some forcefields in the beginning and then he wins eventually. Have you got any tips for this? How do you play zvp? I'm top 8 master with 30% winratio vs p.
Zerg is generally reactive, so you would want to react to the enemy composition. In a gateway have army, like blink stalker, you would want to go infest-ling-ultralisk, whereas against a robo-heavy army, you're better getting broodlord/roach/hydra, perhaps with some infestors. Vipers are important in both compositions.
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On September 01 2015 01:38 Sickel1 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2015 00:22 NaboliC wrote:
The thing keeping me down in this game and kills my motivation from time to time is zvp. This matchup ist just bad and protoss is a too easy and good race. What are the standard builds here really? I've tried them ALL and he just counters and i have nothing to put against. In zvt and zvz I just play until i win or lose, simple. But in zvp it's like 90% strategy and transitions. It has been like this for many years now and I have no idea how to play it regular. Ling roach into what? Ling hydra into what? Roach hydra into what? You feel stuck in the game and the transition is not easy. Protoss just makes his army bigger and bigger until he wins, no transition, nothing really needed but some forcefields in the beginning and then he wins eventually. Have you got any tips for this? How do you play zvp? I'm top 8 master with 30% winratio vs p. Zerg is generally reactive, so you would want to react to the enemy composition. In a gateway have army, like blink stalker, you would want to go infest-ling-ultralisk, whereas against a robo-heavy army, you're better getting broodlord/roach/hydra, perhaps with some infestors. Vipers are important in both compositions.
It is good ideas. I have to start scouting a second time with an overseer to see what follow-up comes. Vs blink, I go ling hydra ultra viper. Done. But against robo it's roach hydra viper into broods? I haven't done broods for years because of their slowness, but I guess it's the way to play now. It is still not accurate this game i think, the difference between zvt and zvp is so sick. I'm on totally different levels here and it shouldn't be like that. It's like different games.
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On September 01 2015 00:22 NaboliC wrote:
The thing keeping me down in this game and kills my motivation from time to time is zvp. This matchup ist just bad and protoss is a too easy and good race. What are the standard builds here really? I've tried them ALL and he just counters and i have nothing to put against. In zvt and zvz I just play until i win or lose, simple. But in zvp it's like 90% strategy and transitions. It has been like this for many years now and I have no idea how to play it regular. Ling roach into what? Ling hydra into what? Roach hydra into what? You feel stuck in the game and the transition is not easy. Protoss just makes his army bigger and bigger until he wins, no transition, nothing really needed but some forcefields in the beginning and then he wins eventually. Have you got any tips for this? How do you play zvp? I'm top 8 master with 30% winratio vs p.
Just make Roaches tbh. I hear the TC/Burrow Roach timing is rather trendy and in fashion lately.
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On September 01 2015 08:41 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2015 00:22 NaboliC wrote:
The thing keeping me down in this game and kills my motivation from time to time is zvp. This matchup ist just bad and protoss is a too easy and good race. What are the standard builds here really? I've tried them ALL and he just counters and i have nothing to put against. In zvt and zvz I just play until i win or lose, simple. But in zvp it's like 90% strategy and transitions. It has been like this for many years now and I have no idea how to play it regular. Ling roach into what? Ling hydra into what? Roach hydra into what? You feel stuck in the game and the transition is not easy. Protoss just makes his army bigger and bigger until he wins, no transition, nothing really needed but some forcefields in the beginning and then he wins eventually. Have you got any tips for this? How do you play zvp? I'm top 8 master with 30% winratio vs p. Just make Roaches tbh. I hear the TC/Burrow Roach timing is rather trendy and in fashion lately.
Roaches is a ok strategy and I've seen Snute do mass roach with tunneling claws. But you have to have a transition from it since not horrible protosses can deal with this even though it crumbles them.
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so how are you supposed to scout and defend 10gas 10pool (or any 10pool speed really  ) on 4p maps?
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On September 04 2015 02:11 Ej_ wrote:so how are you supposed to scout and defend 10gas 10pool (or any 10pool speed really ) on 4p maps?
Honestly I started just 13/12ing every time
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On September 04 2015 02:11 Ej_ wrote:so how are you supposed to scout and defend 10gas 10pool (or any 10pool speed really ) on 4p maps?
i believe the last time i saw 10p unscouted on a 4p map at korean level was jaedong vs some koreigner zerg and the defense was a spine at the bottom of the ramp, two queens blocking the ramp in range and queen ling production. i don't believe there is any way to secure mining at the natural so you would just evacuate any drones there. i dunno because i haven't been 10pooled in hots for a very long time but afaik if you set up correctly it's a micro thing. even if you lose your nat and he takes his he still has to reproduce drones and you can counter (standard zvz seesaw)
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I'd say beware of early aggression, otherwise it looks like a pretty solid build. Then again I've always struggled with protoss.
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So I haven't really been keeping up with HoTS since shortly after the official launch, could someone drop me a primer on the go-to default openings/compositions?
For example in WoL ZvP you would do something like 14p15h with a possible drone pull to defend cannons. 2-4 early lings chase off any probes, clear the vision towers and search out pylons or early troop movements. Then you could either make 2 base mutas to provide room to expand to a third if the map wasn't safe enough, flood zerglings with a backup roach warren if it wasn't as dangerous and you could take map control, or take super fast 3 bases and max supply on roaches to choke out the toss while teching to infestors and hive.
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EPT
