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Archiatrus
Germany64 Posts
Maybe splitting is a way to do it. Ok it will help, but since the banelings have to go into melee range they will be in one big clump when they arrive at the bio army, assuming they are in one hotkey group and you direct them to the biggest marine clump. A replay where a friend of mine played. There were not so many horrible wm hits but just the threat of it shaped the game. http://ggtracker.com/matches/5298293 Thank you in advance for any advice regarding wm in general or with this game. | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
Is there a way to play that offline? I have severe internet issues (living in a third world country from IT standpoint), so will likely be offline for weeks still, but I can download a small file from work and bring home on a memory stick... This is actually more tech-support than strategy advise I realise (sorry!), but maybe someone can help anwyay. :o) | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
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velvex
Germany226 Posts
On August 05 2014 17:30 Cascade wrote: As everyone recommend that inject/creep map: Is there a way to play that offline? I have severe internet issues (living in a third world country from IT standpoint), so will likely be offline for weeks still, but I can download a small file from work and bring home on a memory stick... This is actually more tech-support than strategy advise I realise (sorry!), but maybe someone can help anwyay. :o) As far as I know, it isn't possible to create an offline game of an arcade map. It might work with the editor's testing feature if you have the map file, but I'm not sure. From what I see though, this arcade map doesn't really do much more than providing three bases and some creep lanes. You can probably get a similar training effect in a regular melee offline game. | ||
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Tzyx
Northern Ireland281 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On August 05 2014 15:19 SC2John wrote: That was a short uninstall break. I highly suggest looking up the "Zerg inject and creep spread" map in the arcade. I practice that thing daily by constantly injecting, spreading 2-3 tumors down each lane, and keeping 2-3 groups of zerglings in constant motion. Just doing that like 15-20 minutes a day will help get your play so much more on track in terms of macro. As far as actual gameplay goes, you probably just need to perfect your build orders some. Pick a build order from IMBAbuilds or one here on TL and just drill the hell out of it until you can hit all benchmarks properly. That, combined with the overall mechanical practice you get from playing the creep spread/inject map, will help carry you through ladder a lot better. IN GENERAL, you want to try to reach the saturation that you need and then pump nothing but units. For instance, for 3 base pure roach, you want 4 geysers and 3 base mineral saturation, so your goal is to get to that saturation with as few units for defense as possible, then add on the roaches. So just make sure you're hitting that saturation above all else and playing defensively. The biggest issue people run into is that they end up trying to micromanage or attack too much as Zerg when all you really need to do is play defensively and get the right amount of saturation and you'll be golden  .It's like an abusive relationship. The game keeps battering me around and making me hate myself and I say I'm gonna leave but I just keep coming back for more like an idiot. But anyway, I didn't know that arcade map was a thing, but I'll try it out when I get home if I have time. And some actual build orders that go past ~20 supply would be a good idea, even if I tend to fuck then up a lot and ruin it anyway. Thanks as always. | ||
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Tzyx
Northern Ireland281 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On August 05 2014 22:58 Tzyx wrote: How do you decide where you keep your spare sac/scout overlords in relation to the enemy base? is it just map dependant? Mostly map dependent, but in general you want to have one spotting the natural/your opponent moving out and one in the back to check the main base. It's also pretty good to have an overlord spotting the 3rd, but on certain maps like Overgrowth or Merry Go Round, you can use the same overlord to cover both the third and the natural. Otherwise, the rest of your overlords or spread around the sides of your base or down the center in ZvZ. | ||
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nunnner
Canada26 Posts
On August 05 2014 15:47 Archiatrus wrote: Is there any trick how to attack a terran bio army with mines? It often feels like: the terran army is in a reasonable spot to attack him --> random wm hit kills all banelings --> without the burst damage the zerg army gets crushed --> parade push --> gg. As a gold/plat level zerg for me the best thing is to attack with small packets at a time. Sending a small portion of your force of lings and banes forward will get you some kills, and draw some wm shots on hopefully only a few lings, and make the terran micro/split back, while your main force stays safely behind. It's not likely you'll take our the whole terran army with one attack, so I find patient and keeping on your injects to replace the lings/banes you're losing the best way to stop the parade push. Personally at my level beating this parade push from terran is my favorite thing to do. It's tough but very satisfying when you push them back and sneak in some good counter attacks as well. | ||
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6xFPCs
United States412 Posts
On August 05 2014 15:47 Archiatrus wrote: Is there any trick how to attack a terran bio army with mines? It often feels like: the terran army is in a reasonable spot to attack him --> random wm hit kills all banelings --> without the burst damage the zerg army gets crushed --> parade push --> gg. Nearly every fight seems not worth it and this affects the whole game since always retreating will not win the game. So even without one shot fired the terran can advance much further towards the zerg side of the map, due to the fear of losing everything to a wm. Even runbys with small groups of zerglings or banelings seem to be useless, since there could be wm somewhere on the path. Maybe splitting is a way to do it. Ok it will help, but since the banelings have to go into melee range they will be in one big clump when they arrive at the bio army, assuming they are in one hotkey group and you direct them to the biggest marine clump. A replay where a friend of mine played. There were not so many horrible wm hits but just the threat of it shaped the game. http://ggtracker.com/matches/5298293 Thank you in advance for any advice regarding wm in general or with this game. Watched the replay. I'm going to ignore macro mistakes/issues (EDIT: I realize I didn't really ignore them. Shoot.), though I do want to point out that you opened pool first but your gas was really late, which gave you a ton of trouble with hellions. It was especially bad since you never bother to really spread creep, which contributes to queens being too slow and also later on when you don't have enough creep spread to engage well. Engagement at 17:30 is horrible because you just ball up and run over four widow mines, losing you a big chunk of ling-bane, then his marauders tank all the rest. Either flank or trigger the mines first. In this case I actually think you could've a-moved and your army would've killed most of the mines before they could finish burrowing. You never made a macro hatch so it's tough to rebuild enough lings despite a 2k mineral bank. You also need to inject again the moment you're not actively fighting. Make sure you follow the korean zerg ZvT mantra: always morph banes before you fight. That way, they finish partway into the fight and it's still dangerous for him to push onto creep. In the followup push he has only marines, and you're busying morphing banes, so he's able to push on creep all the way to your natural. Engagement around 23:00 is fine. Fighting at edge of creep is iffy, but you triggered the first set of mines well. You need to replace creep and continue to upgrade mutas, though. Engagement at 27:30 needs to be on creep if possible, but fungal made it work initially. Fungals landed, but no muta support, so no reason to chase him after fungal wears off because he will kite you endlessly. Just fungal, kill, retreat. Why would you go up that ramp to his fifth? I get that you want to break his base (he's ahead-ish on bases), but you should be making 40 mutas and picking apart his bases, not doing a frontal assault with ultras, because that generally fails (and this one definitely failed). You were at 10 ultras at one point, I don't think you ever need more than 6 at most. Also, after he goes marauder-heavy to fight your ultras, it's time to prep a tech switch into BLs. Which happen to work well against mines, as long as you have enough ground support to prevent a mass mine strategy. 33:00+, you only have ultras left over, and the only reason you managed to do anything is because your opponent is bad at scaling up (he should be on like 18 rax at this point), so he's very slow to rebuild. Once you had lost your fourth, you were dead (no mining, didn't rebuild). Summary: Stop engaging off creep. Spread more creep so that you can avoid engaging off creep. Flank with your army, or just don't ball up so much. Avoid chasing him too far, because you have to assume that there is a minefield behind him. Build fewer ultras, and instead build more mutas (seriously. aim for 40 mutas.). Possibly learn to use mutas+seers to snipe mines, and make sure to continue muta harass throughout the game. I'd recommend also focusing on replacing overseers and banes and creep, all three will help. p.s. You're really bad at ensuring you're at full army supply. There were several moments where you had 20+ larvae and lots of resources, but just sat at 170 supply for 30 sec or so. I don't know if you were confused or unsure or what, but it made me pretty anxious--what if he just ran in at that point with 200 supply? You'd be down 30 army supply! | ||
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Dadam88
3 Posts
Is there any other way? I guess I haven't been using swarm hsots lately, but I want something that has tempo...I been trying roach/hydra/corruptor and been failing... Any advice is great - I am just talking compositions, not my skill. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On August 06 2014 08:00 Dadam88 wrote: I need help vrs Protoss. How do I stop a stalker/Cols ball. If I don't cheese, I almost always autolose unless I mass muta switch. Is there any other way? I guess I haven't been using swarm hsots lately, but I want something that has tempo...I been trying roach/hydra/corruptor and been failing... Any advice is great - I am just talking compositions, not my skill. In general, just having a good surround on a Protoss army is good enough to kill a stalker/colossus ball (as long as you have more stuff, of course). Roach/hydra/corruptor is more of a timing-oriented composition now. Nowadays, the safer route is to just get up fast vipers and pull the colossus out. If the Protoss attacks before your vipers are ready, you can still flood emergency corruptors to deal with it. The other alternative is the ling/corruptor timings that popular right now where you basically do a big ling/queen/corruptor timing off of a double upgraded ling opening, smash all the colossus/VRs, and transition into muta/corruptor. This still seems like a bit of an experimental style, though, so I can't comment on its reliability. | ||
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Ghecko
Romania12 Posts
ICan anyone recomend a build for each of the matchups something macro oriented...that i can learn the basics with? builds that rely on getting more stuff than the oponent..not micro intensive ones or cheese/eco cheese. i dont mind losing to certain builds..6pool cannon rushes etc if it lets me learn. | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
It will of course depend heavily on how many players on the teams, the matchup, my allies etc. But I want a place to start from that I can then modify for different situations. My end game goal is hydras with investors and vipers. Maybe support by ultras, roaches or queens depending on gas and what I have from mid game. The basic thought is that the high unit density in team games will be susceptible to area of effect things, and that fungal with blinding cloud is awesome, while hydras and allies DPS. Does well against both ground and air as well. To get there I was thinking speckling at first, too good not to make, and I can't assist my allies without speckling. Also good for scouting and harass. Early game will of course almost entirely depends on what we see from the other side, but I think 14 gas, 14 pool, 21 hatch, is decently safe but still allows me to be economy if other side isn't aggressive early. Next step would be to get up to hydras, possibly with a safety roach warren and/or a third base depending on how game goes. Then, when gas allows, investors and vipers. If game goes on, or I swim in gas for some reason, I can add ultras. Spare minerals go into queens, spine and spores, or speckling harass. Roaches only for panic defence, or punishing overly greedy opponents. Well, that is my view. Please help me pick apart which parts make sense, and which parts are silly. how do you guys play team games? | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
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einduden
Germany13 Posts
i try around theese day´s against T with a few styles, and want to her the opinion of a few better players than me (currently Dia). I lately try to Ling Bane Corruptor into Broodlord. I lack the speed of the Muta´s and rely completely on heavy ling bane + micro against the wm´s. I use the corruptors (10-15) to snipe medivac´s (during the fights perfect because they automatically target the medivac´s and don´t care about thors) Against drops i have spores + 1 Spine and a hand full of ling bane at each base. I transition into Broodlords asap, but i keep my Ling and banecount high. it works quite good in Mid Dia, but i think i´ll suck in Masters with it if i get there. Opinions? | ||
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KonanTenshi
Sweden210 Posts
Everyone I play against goes muta in SH blord... Boring as hell to play against. | ||
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DERASTAT
Germany99 Posts
On August 08 2014 23:14 KonanTenshi wrote: What's the meta in ZvZ? Everyone I play against goes muta in SH blord... Boring as hell to play against. The Meta is still roach with Lings/banes/Infestors/hydras^^ But i had problems against Mutas latley also, I play gaseless +1/+1 Roach push and i can kill his thrid 100% of the time and get mostly some damage in his neutral done after that i try do build Roach Hydra Infestor out of 3 bases but either i hit to late when fungel and Ultra is out or i hit to errly and mass Banes lings mutas overwhelming my army PS: against swarmhost: Broodlords are the counter and against broodlords: corrupter. But erlay sh or Bh is easy beaten with a straight up attack | ||
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Haku
Germany550 Posts
I went 15 Hatch/16Gas/16Pool to get 100 Gas for Lingspeed. The reapers hit quite early and when my Lingspeed is ready he already has 5-7 Reapers and i already lost 20 Lings because i can´t just save them and he kills them while spawning. Also my first Queen ect. spawns and he already has 3 Reapers to slowly take them down. My income is crippled even before because of cutting drones and microing and cancling buildings to save them. What to do? Tryed 1 Spine, but he just moves arround it and snipes drones here and there. | ||
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Jowj
United States248 Posts
On August 09 2014 09:11 EXRNaRa wrote: Can you tell me what you do against 2 Rax Proxy Reaper? I went 15 Hatch/16Gas/16Pool to get 100 Gas for Lingspeed. The reapers hit quite early and when my Lingspeed is ready he already has 5-7 Reapers and i already lost 20 Lings because i can´t just save them and he kills them while spawning. Also my first Queen ect. spawns and he already has 3 Reapers to slowly take them down. My income is crippled even before because of cutting drones and microing and cancling buildings to save them. What to do? Tryed 1 Spine, but he just moves arround it and snipes drones here and there. Hey there! You need to focus mainly on queens/lings (pull off gas once you have speed started) once you know he proxy reapered, and once you know for sure its double rax you'll want to add spines unless you have an absurdly early speed. You have to retain your early queens so that you actually get a decent number out, and to do that you'll have to pull some drones to stall and micro back wounded units. If you like, post a replay and we can critique the micro/decision making. Sometimes it helps to have someone go over that stuff just as a fresh pair of eyes. | ||
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