On July 09 2014 10:18 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: So I tried again to ladder because I love to make myself depressed and I tried to take your guys advise. Started the season 0-8 so far. I cant even win in fucking gold league. I try to go macro too often, and I can't scout worth a fuck. My macro's bad and I have no game sense.
Sorry to rant on here. I know this is not the place. My game just needs a lot of help, that's all. And I kind of have a shit attitude about it all. Sorry
Ok, calm down and get your shit together. Use only hotkeys dont use clicks when you canmuse hotkeys. Keep producing drones as soon as you have a single larva. send overlord at 6 30 vs t and p and check what hey are doing. Macro macro macro.
On July 09 2014 10:51 learning88 wrote: I'm back with some more ZvZ questions. I've decided to give up opening Mutas because I keep getting my 3rd sniped by Roaches. Then it's just a slow death for me When opening roaches: 1. When do I start my RW? I was thinking of starting it after a Baneling Nest (I play pretty safe so I usually get a BN before teching to Lair) but I'm not sure if maybe I should start it earlier and use Roaches for ling all-in defense. 2. When do I get my Lair? When I opened Mutas, I would usually start my Lair once I get 100 gas after I started ling speed and baneling nest. When opening Roaches, I don't know whether I should go with Lair first or maybe range attack first. 3. How should I take my 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th gases? 4. When do I go for my 3rd? If you guys can, can you link me to a game that I can watch that is just a straight up standard Roach opening from both players that played pretty passive? I want to see how my gameplan should look if I was left alone to macro so I can adjust accordingly to attacks and stuff. Thanks for all the help so far!!
1. Unless you're doing an early roach attack, you should be aiming to defend with just pure ling/bane or queen/spine (if gasless) and putting down your roach warren about the time that you start lair (lair and RW have approximately the same build time, so you can start roach speed almost immediately). If you're having trouble with ling/bane defense and/or using queens, spines, and walls effectively, that's a problem of its own.
2. Generally, what you're shooting for is ~35-40 drones before lair. Typical timing for a second gas is 5:30, followed by a lair around 6:30-7:00. Upgrades are fairly interchangeable with lair and really depend on how you want to play, but normally they are started before lair (like in ZvT). If you go double evo, lair before 3rd lair. If you go +1 ranged attacks, 3rd base before lair.
3. The first and second gases are really the most important. Typical timing for the second gas (for roaches) is 5:30, while muta/ling players can delay this for a little bit longer. After that, just take the remaining two geysers in your main and natural as lair is morphing in. The gases at your 3rd base are taken very slowly and based on the flow of the mid game and how aggressive or defensive you and your opponent are being. Essentially, you only start taking the the gases once you're comfortable that the roach or die phase is over.
4. See #2. Most of the time, it's as the lair is morphing, and you just use ling/bane or a handful of roaches to secure it.
On July 09 2014 10:18 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: So I tried again to ladder because I love to make myself depressed and I tried to take your guys advise. Started the season 0-8 so far. I cant even win in fucking gold league. I try to go macro too often, and I can't scout worth a fuck. My macro's bad and I have no game sense.
Sorry to rant on here. I know this is not the place. My game just needs a lot of help, that's all. And I kind of have a shit attitude about it all. Sorry
It sounds like you know a good place to start improving. Work on your attitude by paying close attention to your emotions during/before/after games and thinking them through before/after, examining why you felt that way and then trying to change what happened that MADE you feel that way. Losing to "bullshit" 2rax 6pool proxies!?!? Add a drone scout, or just play pool first for a while to get you out of a rut. T
I'm sorry you're frustrated, but the first part of the season is honestly one of the hardest since there's more and better people playing who go inactive towards the end. Soldier through, post replays, and we'll help out.
On July 09 2014 14:21 KelsierSC wrote: Pretty sure all the maps are awful
Yes I vetoed the new ones T_T...
I needed 6 vetos for this season. Is there an option to buy more vetos at blizz store yet? ^^
On July 09 2014 10:18 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: So I tried again to ladder because I love to make myself depressed and I tried to take your guys advise. Started the season 0-8 so far. I cant even win in fucking gold league. I try to go macro too often, and I can't scout worth a fuck. My macro's bad and I have no game sense.
Sorry to rant on here. I know this is not the place. My game just needs a lot of help, that's all. And I kind of have a shit attitude about it all. Sorry
Depending on what you enjoy, try playing against very easy AI or with no opponent. I did this a lot before. I just went through my builds for each MU and made sure I macroed properly and used my hotkeys well etc. For me this was a good way to get macroing/spending larva into my muscle memory without having to think of other stuff.
Don't focus too much on your opponent in the lower leagues, since it doesn't really help you to "read" your opponent if you can't do it while macroing properly behind it. Macro is the most fundamental skill to have in this game, and I would recommend you to focus on it.
On July 09 2014 10:18 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: So I tried again to ladder because I love to make myself depressed and I tried to take your guys advise. Started the season 0-8 so far. I cant even win in fucking gold league. I try to go macro too often, and I can't scout worth a fuck. My macro's bad and I have no game sense.
Sorry to rant on here. I know this is not the place. My game just needs a lot of help, that's all. And I kind of have a shit attitude about it all. Sorry
Depending on what you enjoy, try playing against very easy AI or with no opponent. I did this a lot before. I just went through my builds for each MU and made sure I macroed properly and used my hotkeys well etc. For me this was a good way to get macroing/spending larva into my muscle memory without having to think of other stuff.
Don't focus too much on your opponent in the lower leagues, since it doesn't really help you to "read" your opponent if you can't do it while macroing properly behind it. Macro is the most fundamental skill to have in this game, and I would recommend you to focus on it.
expanding on the second point, in gold, your opponent is likely to have a WTF/YOLO build that cannot be read anyways...focus on yourself (except for obvious tech like DT shrine, 3 + stargates and the like)
edit: having to play king sejong in ZvP is annoying, but it s better than the 3 new maps so I ll take it... I guess I ll just end up playing all the maps on another server just to try things out before setting my vetoes in stone
On July 09 2014 21:49 Karpfen wrote: Deathwing is really badly made at least considering horizontal spawns.
yes the real thirds are hilariously close. Tempests or colossus prevents you from ever getting a safe fourth base. Also the ramps make it impossible for roach hydra to make a good concave vs Colossus stalkers...
On July 09 2014 09:06 Umuryum wrote: I think I need serious help.
I'm a diamond zerg player and i really struggle against protoss. Is there a way that I can improve myself agaisnt protoss? Because most of the times I even don't understand the reason why I lost.
A few months ago I was in exactly he same position as you. The worst part was that ZvP was -- and still is -- my favorite matchup by far, which made losing almost every ZvP even more frustrating to me. What I started doing was to begin befriending Protoss players that I meet on ladder, and practicing against them whenever possible. You'd be surprised at how many people are willing to be your practice partner if you have a good attitude and ask them for a rematch after a game. Now, ZvP is by far my best matchup.
The most important thing in ZvP is to know what your opponent is doing by 7:00 at the latest. By this time, regardless of whether you opened gasless 3 hatch or early ling speed, you should have at least 35-40 drones, 3 queens, and a few lings out on the map. (If you opened gasless -- which you always should vs FFE -- you can have 45+ drones by 7:00). This is an important benchmark. If you have less than this @ 7:00, you need to re-work your opening. If your overlord scout is completely denied and you don't manage to sneak any lings into his base, you need to put a spore at each base, otherwise an oracle or DT will ruin you.
You mentioned having trouble against immortal/gate all-ins. If this is the case, you need to know by 7:00 if they are going to all-in and cut drones by 7:30 at the latest. You want 50-55 drones max with 3-4 gas geysers. The easiest way to lose against immortal sentry all-in is to overdrone. You say you are desperate for something other than roach ling, but roach ling is by far the easiest way to hold all-ins that hit before 11:00 or so. Burrow is not necessary. If it's a delayed immortal all in, hydras make it easier to hold, but are not necessary either.
The most important aspects of holding these all-ins with roach ling (and hydra if applicable) are to (1)improve your injects and (2)not get supply blocked. The Protoss will have a max of 44 probes so you will have a definite economic edge. Your limiting factors won't be minerals or gas, but larvae and supply. If you run out of larvae while banking a bunch of resources, or end up floating a bunch of larvae (thereby preventing your hatches from spawning larvae automatically) you are more than likely going to lose.
One other important factor in holding immortal sentry all-ins with roach ling -- though not as important as injects/overlords -- is micro. You definitely don't want to a-move a big ball of roach/ling at a big ball of immortals and gateway units. Splitting your units and surrounding the Protoss ball is key and will allow you to trade much more efficiently. If you manage to trade evenly, there is no way a Protoss can win. More than likely, though, the Protoss will still trade more efficiently than you even if you get decent engagements. This shouldn't matter if you are good with your injects and avoiding supply blocks, as your 3 hatch economy with an 8-10 worker lead will allow you to overwhelm him eventually.
On July 09 2014 10:18 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: So I tried again to ladder because I love to make myself depressed and I tried to take your guys advise. Started the season 0-8 so far. I cant even win in fucking gold league. I try to go macro too often, and I can't scout worth a fuck. My macro's bad and I have no game sense.
Sorry to rant on here. I know this is not the place. My game just needs a lot of help, that's all. And I kind of have a shit attitude about it all. Sorry
Ok, calm down and get your shit together. Use only hotkeys dont use clicks when you canmuse hotkeys. Keep producing drones as soon as you have a single larva. send overlord at 6 30 vs t and p and check what hey are doing. Macro macro macro.
Never use clicks, only hotkeys (except for some of the later game upgrades). I'll keep the overlord scouting time in mind though, that's really helpful.
On July 09 2014 10:18 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: So I tried again to ladder because I love to make myself depressed and I tried to take your guys advise. Started the season 0-8 so far. I cant even win in fucking gold league. I try to go macro too often, and I can't scout worth a fuck. My macro's bad and I have no game sense.
Sorry to rant on here. I know this is not the place. My game just needs a lot of help, that's all. And I kind of have a shit attitude about it all. Sorry
It sounds like you know a good place to start improving. Work on your attitude by paying close attention to your emotions during/before/after games and thinking them through before/after, examining why you felt that way and then trying to change what happened that MADE you feel that way. Losing to "bullshit" 2rax 6pool proxies!?!? Add a drone scout, or just play pool first for a while to get you out of a rut. T
I'm sorry you're frustrated, but the first part of the season is honestly one of the hardest since there's more and better people playing who go inactive towards the end. Soldier through, post replays, and we'll help out.
Yes, the worst part of my game is my attitude. Worst part of my personality, I know what I need to do to improve, but it's finding the motivation and mental state to actually improve those things that's the challenge for me.
On July 09 2014 10:18 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: So I tried again to ladder because I love to make myself depressed and I tried to take your guys advise. Started the season 0-8 so far. I cant even win in fucking gold league. I try to go macro too often, and I can't scout worth a fuck. My macro's bad and I have no game sense.
Sorry to rant on here. I know this is not the place. My game just needs a lot of help, that's all. And I kind of have a shit attitude about it all. Sorry
Depending on what you enjoy, try playing against very easy AI or with no opponent. I did this a lot before. I just went through my builds for each MU and made sure I macroed properly and used my hotkeys well etc. For me this was a good way to get macroing/spending larva into my muscle memory without having to think of other stuff.
Don't focus too much on your opponent in the lower leagues, since it doesn't really help you to "read" your opponent if you can't do it while macroing properly behind it. Macro is the most fundamental skill to have in this game, and I would recommend you to focus on it.
I'm actually good at spending larva. My injects are what holds me back. I go into a big fight and then realize I cant reinforce because I haven't injected in a while. The more I think about it, scouting is my biggest problem. I need to know what my opponent is doing better. I've walked hydras/infestors into a wall of colossus before lol.
Again, sorry guys for being so sour in this thread. I struggle with loss, always have and it was very inappropriate to bitch to you guys about it.
Sorry to rant on here. I know this is not the place. My game just needs a lot of help, that's all. And I kind of have a shit attitude about it all. Sorry
Again, sorry guys for being so sour in this thread. I struggle with loss, always have and it was very inappropriate to bitch to you guys about it.
IMO, you don't need to apologize. This is a help me thread - we're here to help! "So I tried again to ladder because I love to make myself depressed" made me LOL (with you and not at you of course ).
One thing that helps me is trying to gage my mind state before I play. If it's been a while (I get rusty after only 3 days off), I do something less stressful for a few nights in a row to get back into it. Day9 recomends 4v4. I also like unranked, build order drills, 1v1 obs games, & arcade. If I notice that I get frustrated and feel slow no matter what I do, I take a few hours off or the whole night off, and try to come back to it later with enough sleep & enough food in my belly.
Then when I feel like laddering but I'm still rusty I try some allins and cheeses, simply because a narrower focus than a macro game is better warm up than going right into a ladder game with a macro style. That one's debatable but it works for me occasionally.
SC2John has a great post from months ago about planning a strategy before going into a game - I'd check that out http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/433514-sc2-notes-how-to-plan-a-strategy . Given that, I sometimes say to myself before the game "I'm gonna work on constantly staying in motion and rely on the pre-game plan, my build order and my experience to use that constant motion to win". This one's hard - I usually have some success for the first 5 minutes, then I slow down. Another one is to say "I'm going to try to stay completely calm, and be completely focused on executing the build and sticking to the plan, and if I keep the emotions out of it as much as possible it will free up my brain to execute." Also really tough, but I wonder if pro players can get to this level.
You've probably heard all that shit before, so here's one that I recently discovered after watching this video: Try using the Tilt to your advantage. Channel the anger into moving faster, kicking your own ass into sending more scouts, going harder on macro cycles, spending faster. I usually feel really good and really spent after pulling this one off.
Hope this helps. I hang out in Channels Jmove and TheSandbox with a lot of players who are better than me if you want practice games.
On July 10 2014 01:40 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I'm actually good at spending larva. My injects are what holds me back. I go into a big fight and then realize I cant reinforce because I haven't injected in a while. The more I think about it, scouting is my biggest problem. I need to know what my opponent is doing better. I've walked hydras/infestors into a wall of colossus before lol.
I can guarantee you that if you are below master league, scouting is not your biggest issue. I've already written what I found helpful when I was learning, so up to you what you want to focus on. I basically didn't scout until I hit master league in WoL, I just did one BO for each MU like 3 base max roach vs protoss and would run over people no matter what units they have. Of course sometimes I would lose to DTs / mass air or something. Not saying you shouldn't scout but I just want you to know that you can hit master without really knowing how to scout.
EPT
). 
