The gasless build order in Zerg versus Zerg is currently one of the most popular builds across all of StarCraft 2, simply because it keeps you save against pretty much everything. The build is especially great for players that dislike the early game Zergling Baneling which is very difficult to control.
This build order focuses on a Zerg midgame with a +1 Missile and +1 Carapace timing attack with Roaches with Roach Speed. In the early game, everything is defended with Queens, building placement and a single Spine Crawler. While pushing out with the Roaches, a third Hatchery is being made.
The benchmark that you want to try and hit is 110 supply, at 10:00 game time with +1+1 done, as well as Roach Speed.
This build works in every single league in StarCraft. It does not matter if you are Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Diamond, Master of even Grandmaster. This build is efficient at every level of play.
If you have any questions, post them below and I'll try my best to answer them.
hey lowko, i really appreciate the fact you are still producing build order content. it helped me to improve from being a total noob to reach the level that we recently faced each other on ladder. i havent been tuning in your channel that much lately because nowadays i use to search for build orders in released replaypacks.
now to my point: when i have found an interesting build order the most difficult part is to search for replays where the build order is used and different things happen. i look for similarities and differences by the opponent player to see how the best way to respond is. now what i really would like to see is maybe an extra video attached to the build orders where you show how to respond when things screw up your timings because you have to respond to f.e. speedling pressure and how to play best against a fast 3rd base with contain on your own 3rd and so on. maybe stuff like this would lift your content to the next level and would bring you even more clicks. especially mine :D
my english is horrible but i hope you get what i am trying to say.
assuming the opponent doesn't 14/14 or something like that, you don't need a spine crawler until 5:00 at the earliest. Ling/ling bane attacks won't come until the first 2 injects pop, which would arrive at your base at 5:50 at the very earliest
I can see how this might work vs a 14/14 speedling/baneling, because banelings and a few lings suck hard vs 3-4 queens and a spine crawler, obviously. I totally fail to see how this works vs a 15h/15g/16h 16drone=>speedling aggression, especially with zero transfusions ready.
On June 01 2014 02:48 EXRNaRa wrote: Why 18 Drones on minerals and not 16?
16-18 is okay.
18 is slightly nicer if your oponnent turns out to go for Mutas and you need to make spores quickly.
It's also correct saturation. Technically, 3 drones can fit on faraway mining patches with ABOUT the same efficiency as 2 drones on a close patch. Obviously, you want to have 16/16 on both your main and natural as quickly as possible, but afterwards, 18 drones on each base is good and as close to "optimum saturation" as you can get...plus two drones.
EDIT: Oh, I actually just watched the video. I honestly think it's best to transfer those two drones from your main to natural and then add on two drones from the main hatchery later on once you achieve 16/16. But, like I said before, it's fairly equal, all things considered, and I can see using this saturation for the sake of simplicity.
EDIT: Great video, keep up the good work! Obviously, this video misses of the things like scouting and how to hold certain pressures, but you do a great job of setting up the correct expectations at the start of the video and letting viewers know that's not what this video is about . Keep em coming!
The gasless build order in Zerg versus Zerg is currently one of the most popular builds across all of StarCraft 2, simply because it keeps you save against pretty much everything. The build is especially great for players that dislike the early game Zergling Baneling which is very difficult to control.
This build order focuses on a Zerg midgame with a +1 Missile and +1 Carapace timing attack with Roaches with Roach Speed. In the early game, everything is defended with Queens, building placement and a single Spine Crawler. While pushing out with the Roaches, a third Hatchery is being made.
The benchmark that you want to try and hit is 110 supply, at 10:00 game time with +1+1 done, as well as Roach Speed.
This build works in every single league in StarCraft. It does not matter if you are Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Diamond, Master of even Grandmaster. This build is efficient at every level of play.
If you have any questions, post them below and I'll try my best to answer them.
Cheers!
Nice video, good production good style. The video is a little late.
The meta has evolved quite a bit on how to counter this. Amandil did this build for like 2 years on NA so high level players have a good idea on how to play it.
The build is an auto loss to speed from gas @ 14 or sooner on some of the current maps in the map pool. (alterzim for example, habitation its extremely hard to hold) This is especially a problem with the mineral bug that shows the spawning location.
Problem is that gas gets your ahead because you can take a third and they cannot pressure it. you can expand at 36 (2 queens) or 44 (3 queens) if you take a third they can pressure you. I actually think that gasless gives you less map control. >>
Also, like when you see gasless vs gasless its this sort of ultra defensive game which often happens that both max on raoches then one transitions to swarm hosts. (like roro vs sniper)
The counter meta is the gasless player to go +1 melee, +1 carapace, lings at 8 minutes to try and hit the opponent while droning and waiting for roaches to come. The problem is that is scouted, the zerg can still hold it. So you are always behind in a gasless build ZvZ. Like what happened in true vs dark game 1.
If you go roaches, generally after taking the third, the gas player put back on gas at 46 and go to lair. Their lair is slightly behind yours. then they put down at 50/52 raoch warren and evo chamber. They take the remaining 3 gases at 54 usually the put down the second evo at around 80ish supply.
Its a lot more complex than what is said here since the build has been done at the highest level for a long time.
Still very good production and keep up the good work!!!!!
On June 01 2014 07:01 Mahtasooma wrote: I can see how this might work vs a 14/14 speedling/baneling, because banelings and a few lings suck hard vs 3-4 queens and a spine crawler, obviously. I totally fail to see how this works vs a 15h/15g/16h 16drone=>speedling aggression, especially with zero transfusions ready.
You just scout it and wall, anytime you see a gasless player lose vs a speedling all in/ ling bane attack its because they messed up (whether it be in their wall or scouting properly) - not that those attacks are good vs gasless
On June 01 2014 04:31 Moosegills wrote: assuming the opponent doesn't 14/14 or something like that, you don't need a spine crawler until 5:00 at the earliest. Ling/ling bane attacks won't come until the first 2 injects pop, which would arrive at your base at 5:50 at the very earliest
Very true! I just included it to deny scouting and to make the build order easier to understand without going too in depth, versus all builds.
The gasless build order in Zerg versus Zerg is currently one of the most popular builds across all of StarCraft 2, simply because it keeps you save against pretty much everything. The build is especially great for players that dislike the early game Zergling Baneling which is very difficult to control.
This build order focuses on a Zerg midgame with a +1 Missile and +1 Carapace timing attack with Roaches with Roach Speed. In the early game, everything is defended with Queens, building placement and a single Spine Crawler. While pushing out with the Roaches, a third Hatchery is being made.
The benchmark that you want to try and hit is 110 supply, at 10:00 game time with +1+1 done, as well as Roach Speed.
This build works in every single league in StarCraft. It does not matter if you are Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Diamond, Master of even Grandmaster. This build is efficient at every level of play.
If you have any questions, post them below and I'll try my best to answer them.
Cheers!
Nice video, good production good style. The video is a little late.
The meta has evolved quite a bit on how to counter this. Amandil did this build for like 2 years on NA so high level players have a good idea on how to play it.
The build is an auto loss to speed from gas @ 14 or sooner on some of the current maps in the map pool. (alterzim for example, habitation its extremely hard to hold) This is especially a problem with the mineral bug that shows the spawning location.
Problem is that gas gets your ahead because you can take a third and they cannot pressure it. you can expand at 36 (2 queens) or 44 (3 queens) if you take a third they can pressure you. I actually think that gasless gives you less map control. >>
Also, like when you see gasless vs gasless its this sort of ultra defensive game which often happens that both max on raoches then one transitions to swarm hosts. (like roro vs sniper)
The counter meta is the gasless player to go +1 melee, +1 carapace, lings at 8 minutes to try and hit the opponent while droning and waiting for roaches to come. The problem is that is scouted, the zerg can still hold it. So you are always behind in a gasless build ZvZ. Like what happened in true vs dark game 1.
If you go roaches, generally after taking the third, the gas player put back on gas at 46 and go to lair. Their lair is slightly behind yours. then they put down at 50/52 raoch warren and evo chamber. They take the remaining 3 gases at 54 usually the put down the second evo at around 80ish supply.
Its a lot more complex than what is said here since the build has been done at the highest level for a long time.
Still very good production and keep up the good work!!!!!
The early Spine Crawler holds any kind of early Gas easily. 4 Queens + 1 Spine hold it. If you have a replay of it losing versus that, let me know and I'd love to see it.
The counter to gasless play is not getting +1+1 for Zerglings, it doesn't do anything because the wall will stand. The way to counter this build is like I said in the video to take a quick 3rd and macro with more Roaches. Yes, the counter is easy, but it's not relevant at lower leagues because players won't effectively scout 90% of the time.
On June 01 2014 07:01 Mahtasooma wrote: I can see how this might work vs a 14/14 speedling/baneling, because banelings and a few lings suck hard vs 3-4 queens and a spine crawler, obviously. I totally fail to see how this works vs a 15h/15g/16h 16drone=>speedling aggression, especially with zero transfusions ready.
You just scout it and wall, anytime you see a gasless player lose vs a speedling all in/ ling bane attack its because they messed up (whether it be in their wall or scouting properly) - not that those attacks are good vs gasless
Building placement is exactly what you need, Queens and a Spine behind a wall simply hold any all in.
The gasless build order in Zerg versus Zerg is currently one of the most popular builds across all of StarCraft 2, simply because it keeps you save against pretty much everything. The build is especially great for players that dislike the early game Zergling Baneling which is very difficult to control.
This build order focuses on a Zerg midgame with a +1 Missile and +1 Carapace timing attack with Roaches with Roach Speed. In the early game, everything is defended with Queens, building placement and a single Spine Crawler. While pushing out with the Roaches, a third Hatchery is being made.
The benchmark that you want to try and hit is 110 supply, at 10:00 game time with +1+1 done, as well as Roach Speed.
This build works in every single league in StarCraft. It does not matter if you are Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Diamond, Master of even Grandmaster. This build is efficient at every level of play.
If you have any questions, post them below and I'll try my best to answer them.
Cheers!
Nice video, good production good style. The video is a little late.
The meta has evolved quite a bit on how to counter this. Amandil did this build for like 2 years on NA so high level players have a good idea on how to play it.
The build is an auto loss to speed from gas @ 14 or sooner on some of the current maps in the map pool. (alterzim for example, habitation its extremely hard to hold) This is especially a problem with the mineral bug that shows the spawning location.
Problem is that gas gets your ahead because you can take a third and they cannot pressure it. you can expand at 36 (2 queens) or 44 (3 queens) if you take a third they can pressure you. I actually think that gasless gives you less map control. >>
Also, like when you see gasless vs gasless its this sort of ultra defensive game which often happens that both max on raoches then one transitions to swarm hosts. (like roro vs sniper)
The counter meta is the gasless player to go +1 melee, +1 carapace, lings at 8 minutes to try and hit the opponent while droning and waiting for roaches to come. The problem is that is scouted, the zerg can still hold it. So you are always behind in a gasless build ZvZ. Like what happened in true vs dark game 1.
If you go roaches, generally after taking the third, the gas player put back on gas at 46 and go to lair. Their lair is slightly behind yours. then they put down at 50/52 raoch warren and evo chamber. They take the remaining 3 gases at 54 usually the put down the second evo at around 80ish supply.
Its a lot more complex than what is said here since the build has been done at the highest level for a long time.
Still very good production and keep up the good work!!!!!
The early Spine Crawler holds any kind of early Gas easily. 4 Queens + 1 Spine hold it. If you have a replay of it losing versus that, let me know and I'd love to see it.
The counter to gasless play is not getting +1+1 for Zerglings, it doesn't do anything because the wall will stand. The way to counter this build is like I said in the video to take a quick 3rd and macro with more Roaches. Yes, the counter is easy, but it's not relevant at lower leagues because players won't effectively scout 90% of the time.
Thanks!
As far as gasless vs gas, the problem I ran into for gasless games was if i tried to take the third before 7:40 it just died. Seemed to risky and they have their third up sooner. Usually they would take their third at like 5:40 and deny mine if i stayed there too long.
As far as people winning vs the wall, sure I can send some replays too of people killing the wall when they gas on 14 (2:47) if you like. Also, when they take 3 bases with the gold on habitation I have lost as well to players with 28 workers and never ending flood lings. (unfortunately)
I found that a lot of times as i mentioned the opponent would just get the third delaying the third queen (4:50ish) and +1 attack and could hold the timing with like 50 workers and would counter about the same time that my third was coming up. So i'd kind of pressure then pull back and initiate the seesaw until runby time.
-When they do this particular 3 base gas into fast hatch build, the hard counter to it is to do a faster +1 +1 ling timing off 2 bases which comes sooner than a roach push which is often expected, which is what I'm referring to.(particularly this is amazing on overgrowth) Its a 1 1 timing vs the gas player who saved the gas to get ups. I agree, the +1+1 ling timing does not work well vs a walled gasless opener two base player as you say.
As far as alterzim being a bad map for gasless. I have about 10ish losses using gasless on alterzim(they just run around spines to the natural. I could dig them up if you really cared. I have about the same number of wins doing 14/14 vs gasless on the same map. Especially since everyone seems to do the exploit on that map when rushing. + Show Spoiler +
this build is actually pretty hard to pull off at bronze or silver level because the defending player (gasless) will often (always?) mess something up, either the queen timing, the wall (that happens A LOT) or the spine, or not holding position with the queens...
Also, with the new map pool, there are maps with larger openings at the natural, making it a bit harder to pull off with sloppy control.
Of course you could argue that the aggressive player (speedling or w/e) will also mess something up in the lower league.
Still, it s a nice guide, thanks! And I kinda agree that except on huge ramps, if you fail to defend vs speedlings attack it s because you screwed up somewhere
Love it Trains my macro and my injects while learning to make wall offs. Had some really good games with this build.Twice I had a mirror match with both doing the same.I won because i was the more aggresive one and ran away from bad fights. Your build seems to be popular GOOD WORK ^_^
On June 06 2014 10:46 learning88 wrote: Just wondering, if I already opened gas against a gasless opener, is going Mutas a bad choice? Does gasless just destroy fast Mutas?
You can go mutas, but you have to take the third base much earlier and pull ahead in macro. You end up in a weird situation around 10:30 where you don't have any mutas, though, and you have to defend with like 60+ lings. But you have 3 hatcheries, so it's not too bad.
EPT
. Keep em coming!
