EPTThe HotS Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 184
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Alchemik
Poland7124 Posts
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HURM
Canada20 Posts
I always have strugged with Roach vs Muta games. http://drop.sc/384323 My plan was to push out with the roaches, make sure he didn't have a 3rd, deny it if he did. Pull back and get some hydras and secure my own third. I just get picked apart though. Spore positioning, queen targeting/transfuse micro, general harass management are all things I could work on. Any suggestions would be much appreciated and do I need infestors in this position? | ||
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6xFPCs
United States412 Posts
On July 11 2014 23:18 Varroth wrote: I just played a game where i had around 17 hydras and like 20 roaches versus around 20 zealots and around 8 skillrays and i got absolutely demolished even though i had the roaches in the front and the hydras in the back and 2/2 upgrades versus 1/1 air and 1/2 toss what do I do? Build different units? Just accept my fate and succumb to the skillrays? This sounds like you a-moved and expected to win. Really the zealots are a meatshield that lets the VR chew through the roaches, then your hydras are exposed and die to random strong gusts of wind. Think of it like fighting zealot+immortal--the immortals are the key units, and if you don't deal with them your life gets really bad really fast. You should be trying to kite the zealots, the voids will naturally stack and thus will be very strongly protecting only certain parts of the zealot ball. Charge (which he shouldn't have yet, but in case this is later in the game) actually doesn't help him, either, it encourages easy zealot pickoffs. Once he's low on zealots, you can engage, making sure you scoot your hydras so that all of them are firing. Voids will all always be firing, so in order to combat them you need to ensure all your hydras are firing back. Alternately, you can engage briefly, focus fire a void ray, then back off again. Keep replacing roaches, and adding hydras as you can, so that you can play tag without worrying about losing hydras. Never engage if you have roaches and he activates prismatic alignment (big rays). Just back off. [An aside: same thing goes for roach-hydra vs stimmed bio, never fight an army of stimmed units.] If you see him investing pretty seriously into void rays, make sure you drop an infestation pit. Even two infestors without pathogen glands give you a huge wildcard that he has to respect, lest he get forced into an engagement with only half of his units able to fight (i.e., fungal locks down some of his army while out of position), or take 30+ damage per unit caught in the fungal. | ||
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
In speedling + baneling fights, how should I hotkey? What do the pros do? 1 or 2 control groups. Or maybe one for speedlings and banelings not hotkey'ed? | ||
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Alchemik
Poland7124 Posts
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
On July 12 2014 10:15 Alchemik wrote: ^I'd say you should have 1 for the whole army (or only speedlings) and 1 one for banelings. Haven't even thought of this. Definately going to try this some games. Thanks bro! | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On July 12 2014 09:15 Mozdk wrote: ZvZ platinum league. In speedling + baneling fights, how should I hotkey? What do the pros do? 1 or 2 control groups. Or maybe one for speedlings and banelings not hotkey'ed? Advice I got from PiG: 1. Morph your banelings in a line (just get good at this positioning). 2. CTRL + click the lings in the selection box below OR CTRL + shift + click the baneling eggs in the selection box below. This deselects the morphing banelings and gives you only lings. 3. Rehotkey the lings. 4. CTRL + click or double-click the banelings and rehotkey them to a separate hotkey. Once you do this enough, you can minimize the amount of time spent on it down to like 1-2 seconds. The banelings need to constantly kept on a move command so that you don't accidentally trade one baneling for one ling, and you want to split off 2-3 lings from your main group (Amove/right-click on baneling, shift+ click 2-3 times in the selection box, and rehotkey your lings) to attack enemy banelings. If you have any questions, just let me know. | ||
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Jowj
United States248 Posts
On July 12 2014 12:21 SC2John wrote: Advice I got from PiG: 1. Morph your banelings in a line (just get good at this positioning). I'm not sure what this means, to be quite honest. Did he specify why? Personally I spend an extra half-second or so morphing separate sets of banelings (i.e. a set of 2 here, set of 2 over there, etc) to deal with opponent bane or ling splits as they come into my base. I guess he could be referring to offensive morphing, so that the banelings are easier to split off reactively to your opponent's banelings? | ||
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Jer99
Canada8158 Posts
On July 12 2014 12:21 SC2John wrote: + Show Spoiler + On July 12 2014 09:15 Mozdk wrote: ZvZ platinum league. In speedling + baneling fights, how should I hotkey? What do the pros do? 1 or 2 control groups. Or maybe one for speedlings and banelings not hotkey'ed? Advice I got from PiG: 1. Morph your banelings in a line (just get good at this positioning). 2. CTRL + click the lings in the selection box below OR CTRL + shift + click the baneling eggs in the selection box below. This deselects the morphing banelings and gives you only lings. 3. Rehotkey the lings. 4. CTRL + click or double-click the banelings and rehotkey them to a separate hotkey. Once you do this enough, you can minimize the amount of time spent on it down to like 1-2 seconds. The banelings need to constantly kept on a move command so that you don't accidentally trade one baneling for one ling, and you want to split off 2-3 lings from your main group (Amove/right-click on baneling, shift+ click 2-3 times in the selection box, and rehotkey your lings) to attack enemy banelings. If you have any questions, just let me know. I prefer to control + click the morphing banelings in the selection box and hotkey them to a key, and then use my pre-existing hotkey to control + click the lings in the selection box and re-hotkey that, so that I don't have to control + left click the morphing banelings on the screen and potentially miss them and waste time. | ||
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
On July 12 2014 22:27 Jer99 wrote: I prefer to control + click the morphing banelings in the selection box and hotkey them to a key, and then use my pre-existing hotkey to control + click the lings in the selection box and re-hotkey that, so that I don't have to control + left click the morphing banelings on the screen and potentially miss them and waste time. I guess most of zerg use this method, but also the deselect thing. Because some of us also have the zergling's egg in our pre-existing hotkey. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On July 12 2014 23:09 RaiZ wrote: I guess most of zerg use this method, but also the deselect thing. Because some of us also have the zergling's egg in our pre-existing hotkey. Yeah, having the eggs in the selection is why I usually advocate just getting rid of the banelings first to avoid all that bother. On July 12 2014 22:23 Jowj wrote: I'm not sure what this means, to be quite honest. Did he specify why? Personally I spend an extra half-second or so morphing separate sets of banelings (i.e. a set of 2 here, set of 2 over there, etc) to deal with opponent bane or ling splits as they come into my base. I guess he could be referring to offensive morphing, so that the banelings are easier to split off reactively to your opponent's banelings? Not entirely sure either, but that's what he told me lol. I think the main reason is that it's easier to split them up into twos than if you had a pack of them (for instance, amove then make a small box and separate 2 banelings out from the other sets of two and you've automatically got 3 sets of banelings with only one action). | ||
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NaboliC
Sweden130 Posts
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Jowj
United States248 Posts
On July 13 2014 01:25 NaboliC wrote: I have Deadwing, Castellana and Nimbus vetoed for the moment since it's impossible to win on those. On Castella, you can't scout AT ALL really, despite lings everywhere (no Xelnaga), Deadwing is big and stupid and Nimbus is just bad (also too hard to scout). Deadwing I think is very hard for zerg and I think is a solid veto. Catallena and Nimbus I think are fine maps to play on as a Zerg player, you just need to play to the map a little more, leaving Zerglings in common scout paths and using overlords to help spot from high ground locations. They are different from previous maps but that's not a bad thing. Do you have any replays that show what you think are the problems on Nimbus/Catallena that we could look at? We can go through the replay/vod and maybe point out holes in the play that are exacerbating the map differences and vice versa. | ||
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Zheryn
Sweden3653 Posts
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Alchemik
Poland7124 Posts
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6xFPCs
United States412 Posts
On July 13 2014 02:28 Jowj wrote: Deadwing I think is very hard for zerg and I think is a solid veto. Catallena and Nimbus I think are fine maps to play on as a Zerg player, you just need to play to the map a little more, leaving Zerglings in common scout paths and using overlords to help spot from high ground locations. They are different from previous maps but that's not a bad thing. Do you have any replays that show what you think are the problems on Nimbus/Catallena that we could look at? We can go through the replay/vod and maybe point out holes in the play that are exacerbating the map differences and vice versa. Deadwing might be a map where zerg needs to balloon to four bases fast, because your opponent will be able to. So you might as well get there faster. Or just nydus ZvP and 1-1 roach in ZvT. I agree that it is veto-worthy already, but I am continuing to play on all the new maps, I do find them all interesting. Catallena is a scouting nightmare, it seems. Constantly refreshing ling scouts is tough when you also have to watch for drops. Maybe burrowed lings is the way to go? On Nimbus, the push distance is very small, and I've actually been doing well with aggressive play on that map. Especially given the twin paths out of the main base, you can easily counterattack once he's comfortably out of his base. I think every single game I've won has been by counterattack, in both ZvT and ZvP. I have no problem with scouting on Nimbus. The in-base natural is easy to see with an overlord, there's a small pillar at the outer edge of the main, and the third is in front so it hasn't been a problem for me. I think I basically reused my Alterzim scouting habits and it's been working for me. Or maybe I'm just being so aggressive that I spot everything. I will say that ZvT seems to be always light hellion-reaper into heavy banshee, and I've been grabbing 3 spores at the closest-by-air base to defend, since I see stuff like 4 banshees with cloak into mech siege tank abuse (siege tanks can defend the front third very very easily). 3 spores is a nasty surprise for them that forces the banshees to go much further to get to a vulnerable base, without really delaying your tech (read: don't forget your spire). Add in a roach counter when they try to attack or set up cliff siege abuse (again, you should be waiting on that second path), double expand behind it into muta switch on 10 gas. On July 13 2014 03:27 Zheryn wrote: Do you guys prefer to play Catellena or Merry Go Round? Honestly, I prefer MGR right now because clockwise positions make it tough to take a third and fourth oriented away from your opponent. Both are tough in terms of drops in ZvT, but MGR has somewhat less airspace to control, especially around the third. Catellena feels very difficult to scout on, the ramps are easily controlled and there is no high ground in the center to keep overlords at (i.e., overlords die easily), and the lack of alternative paths make counters very difficult. | ||
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NaboliC
Sweden130 Posts
On July 13 2014 02:28 Jowj wrote: Deadwing I think is very hard for zerg and I think is a solid veto. Catallena and Nimbus I think are fine maps to play on as a Zerg player, you just need to play to the map a little more, leaving Zerglings in common scout paths and using overlords to help spot from high ground locations. They are different from previous maps but that's not a bad thing. Do you have any replays that show what you think are the problems on Nimbus/Catallena that we could look at? We can go through the replay/vod and maybe point out holes in the play that are exacerbating the map differences and vice versa. I will play it some more and see if I can find out how to play, I will also watch proplayers play them so I can see how they do it. Last game I lost to a terran despite lings out on the map to see when he goes up, still I first notice him when he is five seconds away from my base. Why is there no xelnaga is the question. I will play some more and then I can notice you and we can watch replays, thanks. | ||
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Deleted User 261926
960 Posts
On July 13 2014 04:03 Alchemik wrote: Merry Go Round. Even tho it's bad imo, Catallena is even worse. ZvP is impossible for me there. Go swarmhost on that. It's the best option. | ||
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Jowj
United States248 Posts
I'm curious what makes you say that Swarmhost ZvP is best on that map. I'm not necessarily disagreeing, as I think SH lategame is the safest most low variance way of playing, but I don't know that I agree that that is any more true on Catallena than on other maps. Ling Hydra timings still do work, Roach drop play is definitely still viable due to main size and the distance from 3rd to main ramp. Of course there's always mutalisks as well :3. So what makes you say SH exactly? | ||
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Alchemik
Poland7124 Posts
I don't have good enough control to play that kind of late-game. | ||
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