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KaneZ
Germany202 Posts
If I try to sent in some zerglings first, marines just kill them before widowmines detonate. If I sent more, they may trigger, but then I have no zerglings left for the engagement and marines just steamroll their supposed counter (the blings) with little splitting of the marines. I think roach/hydra does not work at all against terran, but neither does ling/bling/muta anymore. I have no idea what to do, maybe 6pool every ZvT until LotV gets released? | ||
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Jailir
10 Posts
 This is helpful!! | ||
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SnowZi
Croatia16 Posts
On September 01 2013 06:06 11B wrote: Hydra/Queen and an eventually transition to either Viper or Infestor. Either nydus his main or if that fails, get a nydus somewhat close to his original natural (w/out 100 cannons). Then just keep reinforcing super quick units while spreading a little creep and throwing down lots and lots of spores during your push. And when I say Queen, I mean a decent number.......like in the 6-8 range. A good time to start pushing out (to your Nydus) with Hydra/Queen is probably in the 10:30 - 11:00mark, by which time you should easily have 24+ Hydra supported with 6+ Queen. If he adds Templar or lots of Zealots you counter with SH. And o, let me guess, on the new map Polar right? Lets air defend his 3rd very easy. That's a great sky toss map. Ok well that's the mid game composition to kill it,what's the lategame thing you can do vs it on 5 bases? What kind of army composition beats full carriers? :D | ||
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Decendos
Germany1341 Posts
On September 02 2013 02:43 SnowZi wrote: Ok well that's the mid game composition to kill it,what's the lategame thing you can do vs it on 5 bases? What kind of army composition beats full carriers? :D full carrier without any support? SH, viper, queen/hydra, infestor and lots of spores. the more ground support, the more SHs. | ||
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SnowZi
Croatia16 Posts
when i mean full carrier i mean full carrier no zealots or anything just a click. Anyways,does anyone have 9 pool build order? | ||
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11B
United States188 Posts
Turtle Mech into Mass Siege Tank/Raven is perfectly balanced and a deligt to play against, buw how do I beat it? The way I see it I either try to go for some Viper + Max Roach/Hydra timing, which shouldn't work if the Terran turtles correctly I think and the other possible route is mass swarm host BUT here's where I get stuck. What exactly do I want along the swarm hosts AND how should I engage? I watched a Massan game the other night, on Akilon Waste, and that's exactly what the Terran did. And a perfect map to do so right? Easy to camp your a$$ off and hide behind 4 bases. Massan went for Mass Corruptor (3/3) and oddly enough mass Ultra, and to my surprise won ^^. I don't really know how, but it seems the Ultras seemed to trade slightly better vs the tanks, and then he'd just insta remax on the same composition and continue to deny a 5th. He didn't add in any Vipers (that I can remember), but seeing how he won on pretty much pure Ultra/Corruptor a few blinding clouds would tip even more in favor of the Zerg. So Massan, if you're reading this.......... My answer is from your game -> Mass Corruptor and Ultra! | ||
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Decendos
Germany1341 Posts
On September 02 2013 03:43 SnowZi wrote: what are swarm hosts gonna do to full carrier? when i mean full carrier i mean full carrier no zealots or anything just a click. Anyways,does anyone have 9 pool build order? yeah if he is that bad going carrier only just get 4 infestors to fungal interceptors and go mass corruptors. if he is any good he will have some HT and archons with his army which SHs are for. thats why going mass corruptor is usually bad, but yeah if he is bad and goes carrier only, go corruptor with some infestors and shift-click his carrier. the thing is if he sees only corruptor he can easily morph some archons/stalker etc. so having some SHs is never bad. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On September 02 2013 01:15 KaneZ wrote: I have no hope in ever winning a ZvT again. It feels just ridiculous to always lose against mass marines running into my main. I have several controlgroups with lings, blings, mutas with overseers. I try to harass and him with mutas but he simply puts down five tuerrets per base and seems to dont care anymore, instead rallying mass marines out of 10 rax into my bases. I try to flank his marines, attack with blings (the only unit in zerg arsenal capable of somehow dealing with marines) but he simply burrows a few widow mines somewhere, kites my banelings into the widow mines and it's gg, despite me having double the army value. If I try to sent in some zerglings first, marines just kill them before widowmines detonate. If I sent more, they may trigger, but then I have no zerglings left for the engagement and marines just steamroll their supposed counter (the blings) with little splitting of the marines. I think roach/hydra does not work at all against terran, but neither does ling/bling/muta anymore. I have no idea what to do, maybe 6pool every ZvT until LotV gets released? I've grown quite satisfied with ling/bling/hydra on some maps recently (against master Terrans). Basically what I do is a normal melee ling/bling opening, but instead of the spire I get a hydra den and an infestation pit. Instead of 10-15 mutas I build 10-15hydras which costs less but is stronger in direct combat. And then I get a Hive asap and transition into some ultras and 3/3, staying defensive until I have all of that. I think it is better against paradepushing bio/mine in direct engagments because 1hydralisk is stronger than 1mutalisk and costs less gas, which allows you to get an even stronger army (more banelings). And you can also get a faster hive. As dropdefense on certain maps having 3hydras+6ling/bling+1queen can be quite enough. The maps I play it on are: Derelict Watcher Yeonsu Vestige Also Frost and Akilon are quite OK for it imo. Don't attack, don't lose | ||
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DilemaH
Canada402 Posts
On September 02 2013 03:43 SnowZi wrote: what are swarm hosts gonna do to full carrier? when i mean full carrier i mean full carrier no zealots or anything just a click. Anyways,does anyone have 9 pool build order? I have no idea where you read about SHs vs mass carrier as your first sentence seems like a response. Anyways if he masses carriers, you do need swarm hosts, at least 5-6 or more vs someone who is massing them. If a player masses carriers, I would go corrupter hydra swarm host infestor viper, and maybe queens. Corrupters tank (fly right into the carrier ball) so that way your fungals hit both interceptors and carriers while your corrupters tank, hydras deal flat dps and vipers abduct some carriers to your has for fast picking. If you also have swarm hosts, he can't mess you up with storms, which if he isn't silver he should do. And 9 pool? I don't see this working very well because of larva timings, so just look up a 10 pool timing, as it's more reliable and gets the same job done. I will link a powerful ZvP guide shortly, I can't while on m iPad. | ||
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Qwyn
United States2781 Posts
I have been experimenting with gasless into double gas roach but I cannot find the right timing yet. Lings just don't cut it...and yes I am completely comfortable with using speedlings to shut down the pylon but I would like to use roaches so that I conserve larva for drones. Got an awesome opener against FFE, but...no one goes FFE anymore (rarely)...so I'd like to shit on 4 gate pressure and gate-core as much as possible. | ||
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11B
United States188 Posts
If you want to use Roaches there's really no good build that allows you to take a quick 3rd......not even if you cut ling speed. You've got the 150 cost of an early RW, which in theory we could substitute in place of an early 3rd Queen, but then the Roaches themselves are very expensive and also require more cash spent on the required overlords to support them. So that leaves defending with lings, with early speed or the option of 2 earlier gases than normal......but even this requires us to defend with slow lings during their first 2 warp in of units. And as we've all probably learned, defending with just lings can work very well or go very wrong. Those damn sentries, FFE, and early +1 can make the Ling only approach difficult. I have my own standard opener vs Gateway > Nexus > 4 gate pressure, and imo, the gas timings, mineral timings, and just timings in general work out very nice............. but it's a delayed 3rd, so I don't think you'd be interested (but i do share)^^. | ||
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Qwyn
United States2781 Posts
I came to the same conclusion. Tried around 50 games with different timings and nothing worked. I don't really like roach plays in general...still experimenting in any way I can. | ||
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11B
United States188 Posts
- 15 Hatch (you see no early probe scout, otherwise 15 Pool into 16 hatch) - 16 Pool - 1x gas @ 3:00 - 2 simultaneous Queens (if Pool first, main hatch goes Queen, Queen) - Queen at natural injects 2x in a row, and then lays a creep tumor towards future 3rd - 4:20 - 4:30 Ling Speed (finishes when our 8 future Lings Hatch) - drone to 41 supply and @ 5:35 - 5:40 RW (you should have exactly 150 minerals) - at this point things look like: 2 base mineral saturation (16), 1 gas w/ 3 drones > (35 total), 2 Queens, 1 set of lings - @ 40 supply get 4 sets of Lings (8 speedlings that pylon hunt) and @ 44/44 build 3 Overlords - overlords finish right when the RW does -> build 8 Roaches (6:30) - @ 7:00 start Lair and 3rd Queen (from natural) -> lay creep and walk to 3rd - @ 7:00 send drone from natural to 3rd and start 3rd Hatch at 7:20 (coincides with future inject timings) - @ 7:30 start 3x gas and 1 evo chamber (+1 missile) Everything else is game dependent......especially on how much and how long they try to apply gateway pressure. But in my experience while using this build it's pretty much shut down after the 2nd warp in. The 3 Ovies at 44/44 supply gets you 4 sets of lings and 8 Roaches bringing you to 60/68 supply(leaves you 8 supply to play with in case you need more units -> but I prefer to drone). At this point in the game you are normally facing 4-5 Zealots in the 6:50-7:00 range, and a total of 9-10 units in the 7:30 range. Our initial unit count above usually stops this in its tracks....... In the worse case scenario you build 8 more sets of speed lings giving you a total of 24 Speedlings and 8 Roaches which in simple terms, will absolutely crush any unit type/combination they have. There's just no way they ever get to a 3rd warp in. The nice thing about delaying the 3rd Hatch until 7:20 means they have absolutely zero chance to apply pressure, or kill/cheese your expansion. Also, this still allows you to take your 5th/6th gas on a pretty normal timing.....around 9:00s. | ||
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Qwyn
United States2781 Posts
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Siggeh
Norway71 Posts
Also I'm master zerg EU. http://drop.sc/357000 http://drop.sc/357001 | ||
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11B
United States188 Posts
Btw: Anyone suggesting roach / hydra is a fucking moron. Also I'm master zerg I'm going to give you a replay from one of the BEST ZERGS on the planet, and of course he is a Korean. His name is SoulKey......you know, the guy who has WON 5 KOREAN CHAMPIONSHIPS. If you don't like a 5 Time Champion because he is too much of a fucking moron and noob for you then try StarTaleLife's (15 time World Champion) Z vs T style found here: And if that doesn't work for you try Scarletts standard Z vs T, and a build she used with a lot of success in WCS America season 2: And finally, 10 Tips to help vs Bio/Mine (when your using Muta/Ling/Bling): | ||
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morgoth813
43 Posts
On September 02 2013 23:45 Siggeh wrote: This is just a fucking joke, I can't figure out this ZvT matchup. Basically bio / widow mines aswell as continously drops which buys time for him to make new CCs. (No way to put pressure back, because u will have to use mutas and ur ling / blings to defend the 3 drops coming at u constantly) I got approx. 30 % win ratio in this matchup. Plz give me some tips to fix my ZvT. Btw: Anyone suggesting roach / hydra is a fucking moron. Also I'm master zerg EU. http://drop.sc/357000 http://drop.sc/357001 One important thing for you, and many others here: anyone can be master. Most people can make it into master by working on only one of 5 critical skills in SC2, so it makes sense that when your opponent outplays you in two or more of those skills, you will feel helpless. In other words, you are nowhere close to the top, and therefore probably not qualified to give or judge advice. That being said, if you want to beat those pitiful dropping terrans one day, you must accept that you suck in order to discover why you suck and start working on fixing that. | ||
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Vies
Australia57 Posts
Does anyone have a build order or general plan when facing 1 gate FE zvp? | ||
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11B
United States188 Posts
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Vies
Australia57 Posts
On September 03 2013 15:20 11B wrote: I did a few post up: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402752¤tpage=109#2173 woops! Thanks a lot. | ||
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