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bretfart
114 Posts
1) Find someone who goes into a custom game with you and let him send a marine around the map at the places you tell him to go! or.. 2) Pick your sports and try them out in ladder games or... 3) Watch streams and look exactly where the Pros are putting their overlords | ||
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morgoth813
43 Posts
It would make sense to start compiling overlord positions by map, in one single zerg thread. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=347897 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354352 | ||
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ReMinD_
Croatia846 Posts
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Guileful
Kazakhstan137 Posts
On August 31 2013 18:34 ReMinD_ wrote: After seeing sos block gas with Asimilators in his game vs. Dear, how useful would it be to use your drone scout and make an extractor in Protoss base? Forge expand - useless, Gate expand - Useless, If you see lots of boosts saved in the Nexus 50+ then it worth of giving a try it will delay any high tech if protoss' 1st unit is stalker | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/R7ik5oc.jpg) So, I think the Main, Natural and 4th base should be clear where to take, though in some rare cases you may want to take the 4th as third (e.g. against a very aggressive 2basing zerg you can close the wall at the front and kill the backdoor and expansion blockers with roach/spine/queen/ling). The question I keep asking myself is which third base to take. I can't wrap my head around which way I rather want to defend. Along the green line it looks awefully easy to stretch me thin or abuse choke points, especially with drop based play and forcefields. The blue 3rd however feels very, very attackable from many sides (especially by Zerg and bio play) and allows my opponent to get nonstop aggressive unless I go aggressive myself. My stance currently is to go: Blue 3rd against Protoss, because it's harder for Protoss to attack this base, meanwhile I can go very easily aggressive myself onto his third, unless he expands late and takes the backdoor one. Green 3rd against Zerg, because if you can take the tower in front of it and just sit tight behind the chokes you have a serious defenders advantage in roach wars. Against Terran I'm not quite sure. I think for a Terran it is very logical to always try to get into a "blue vs green" situation due to rush distance, while the zerg optimally wants green vs green, but blue vs blue is also OK. As you have to take your third first as zerg, Terran should always get into a green vs green situation if he wants to. I so far have played with the blue 3rd base, as it seems easier to play against drops (with mutalisks) that way. Also many Terrans seem to prefer their own blue base as third, so you can sometimes avoid blue vs green that way. Thoughts? | ||
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morgoth813
43 Posts
Not only do you get an additional base for less surface area than you had with two, but you get another free base for that move (the 4th). In terms of distance, if you keep your army at your natural, it is pretty much the same as the other configuration, so I really see no drawback. | ||
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SnowZi
Croatia16 Posts
GM here. | ||
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Psychonian
United States2322 Posts
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FakePseudo
Belgium716 Posts
On September 01 2013 03:25 SnowZi wrote: Simple question,just faced a guy on ladder,he did very safe carrier build with alot of cannons into 3rd,what do you think how should I punish this,should I stop him from getting a 3rd or which composition lategame? GM here. Replay or it didn't happen. Thank you. | ||
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11B
United States188 Posts
Simple question,just faced a guy on ladder,he did very safe carrier build with alot of cannons into 3rd,what do you think how should I punish this,should I stop him from getting a 3rd or which composition lategame? Hydra/Queen and an eventually transition to either Viper or Infestor. Either nydus his main or if that fails, get a nydus somewhat close to his original natural (w/out 100 cannons). Then just keep reinforcing super quick units while spreading a little creep and throwing down lots and lots of spores during your push. And when I say Queen, I mean a decent number.......like in the 6-8 range. A good time to start pushing out (to your Nydus) with Hydra/Queen is probably in the 10:30 - 11:00mark, by which time you should easily have 24+ Hydra supported with 6+ Queen. If he adds Templar or lots of Zealots you counter with SH. And o, let me guess, on the new map Polar right? Lets air defend his 3rd very easy. That's a great sky toss map. | ||
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ysnake
Bosnia-Herzegovina261 Posts
On September 01 2013 03:25 Psychonian wrote: Hey guys, hopefullynotforeverbronze here, wanted to see if I could get some basic BOs to win games. TY People that are stuck in Bronze, especially Zerg players, are not there because of their lack of BOs. It's because of their mechanics, that means your mechanics are pretty bad and you need to work on them. This is achieved to a certain level by playing a lot. Refined mechanics come in as you're comfortable to do that in game, such as setting up a surround or a concave, magic boxing mutalisks etc etc. You should work on that first, here's a good guide on mechanics: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=427329 When I just got back into the game (was high Diamond in WoL pre-Zerg patch) I just did my safest opener every game until I felt comfortable taking Hatch firsts or doing some 10pool shenanigans. My "safe go-to build" is: 14 - pool 16 - hatch 15 - overlord 15 - queen 17 - zergling However, in ZvT, if you do not go Hatch first, you are falling behind on economy if the Terran goes for a greedy opener, such as fast 3 CCs. I'd recommend for a player of your caliber not to try hatch first in any MUs. The build I gave you is prone to fall to early 10pool speedling aggression in ZvZ, but other than that, it's relatively safe. Here are some other builds you can use, but just so you know, Zerg doesn't have any particular build orders, rather you react with the knowledge you are given, when are you going to get upgrades, when are you going to tech up, when to pump out units instead of Drones. ZvZ: 10 - pool 10 - extractor 9 - overlord 9 - drone 10 - 3x lings 13 - lings 14 - queen or more lings start speed at 100 gas and pull drones off of gas (unless you are planning to allin with baneling nest) 14 - pool 16 - hatch 15 - overlord 15 - queen 17 - zergling 18 - extractor ZvT: 15 - hatch 16 - pool get gas around 20-25 supply or if you want to drone up even more, get it between 25-35 ZvP: 14 pool build cheese: 6 - pool 5 - drone 6 - drone 7 - 3x lings 10 - overlord pump out lings I'd recommend trying to play against AI or some friends to get a better grasp of the mechanics as cheesing and such tactics will only get you so far. SC2 isn't all about winning, it's about improving and then outplaying your opponent. Trust me, there is no better feeling than seeing your creep touching their base while they feel helpless to move out. | ||
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Olferen
United States39 Posts
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goofyballer
United States136 Posts
Anyone else tried this and think it's good/bad? Are there negatives I'll come across eventually when I do this against someone who knows how to counter it? I'm in Platinum fwiw. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On September 01 2013 12:31 goofyballer wrote: Lately against biomine, I've been randomly trying something new and making 3-6 swarm hosts when Terran starts to move across the map, with the idea being that it helps prevent them from sieging up outside my base; the locusts will set off mines, and if I go more towards 6 SHs rather than 3 then they can actually chip away slowly at the bio. Obviously Terran can replace these units pretty easily but I think they find it pretty annoying, and what usually happens is that they'll either retreat far enough away (or leave entirely) that they're not really choking me inside my base anymore, or they'll try to take really stupid engagements to kill the swarm hosts (like, stim, run up, scan, somehow oblivious to the fact that I can see this coming and get lings/banes ready to punish it). And if they just let me set off/kill the mines (I actually haven't been microing overseers with the locusts, but obviously that would help too) that's great too and makes it easier for me to engage into their army. Anyone else tried this and think it's good/bad? Are there negatives I'll come across eventually when I do this against someone who knows how to counter it? I'm in Platinum fwiw. I think many zergs have given this a try, but as far as I have read and experienced, it simply doesn't work well against a Terran who just picks off the locusts before they reach the mines but doesn't do anything stupid like charge into banelings. I guess at a certain (low) level it's easier to set off mines with swarm hosts than with zerglings, but remember: 1 swarm host = 200/100 --> may set off 1mine every 30seconds 4-8zerglings = 50-100/0 --> may set off 1 or more mines once when/where you want So if you have the micro and larva it's probably just more costefficient and practical to use zerglings to defuse mines. | ||
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11B
United States188 Posts
Anyone else tried this and think it's good/bad? Are there negatives I'll come across eventually when I do this against someone who knows how to counter it? I'm in Platinum fwiw. Well Bio is pretty mobile, especially with medivacs so while I can see you stopping their initial push I don't think SHs let you be as aggressive as you need to. Plus that much supply in a rather slow unit (off creep aint nothing special) doesn't help defend vs drops or preventing the Terran from grabbing their 4th. Additionally, Medivacs can simply drop units on top of your SH inbetween locust waves. So if you have the micro and larva it's probably just more costefficient and practical to use zerglings to defuse mines. Burrowed Roaches with constitution upgraded do great. 1st, mines won't detonate when your burrowed and when you do unburrow take the single mine hit, burrow, rebuild to full health very quick, and other Roaches, or that same Roach can take out the mines. If you want to try something new try Soulkeys +1/+1 Roach build, transitioning into Hydra/IP. It's extremely strong vs any sort of 3 CC play because it hits with 32+ Roach before Terrans Macro gets up and running. Here's the b/o found at IMBA: http://imbabuilds.com/hots-zerg/hots-zvt/zvt-soulkeys-1-1-roach-timing/ , and here's a replay showcasing Soul Key using the build: | ||
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11B
United States188 Posts
Hey guys, hopefullynotforeverbronze here, wanted to see if I could get some basic BOs to win games With all the new replays released from WCS America, Korea, etc........I've been looking through quite a few and have come across an extremely safe, albeit slightly strange expo build (at least to me lol) for Z vs Z. It seems to be Soulkeys standard Z vs Z opener: - 9 Ovie - 15 Pool - 15 Hatch - 14 Overlord - 14 gas -> but you don't take the gas till 2:57 - 13 Queen - usually a minimum of 1 set of lings - drones/lings from here -> scout dependent - 100g Speed - 50g Bling nest - 1 spine (helps target Blings approaching) - drone drone drone -> Lings/Blings as needed -> try to be greedy - 6:00 2nd gas - 6:35-40 3rd/4th gas - 3rd Hatch when you float the minerals - Lair -> into Spire -> into harass -> into transition to +1/+1 Roach/Hydra -> SH -> and eventually BL if needed. | ||
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SnowZi
Croatia16 Posts
On September 01 2013 04:53 FakePseudo wrote: Replay or it didn't happen. Thank you. Okay here is the replay, http://drop.sc/356799 Btw I don't think queens+ hydras 10:30 will make any difference since there will be 10 cannons and just impossible to attack,i can try to get a creep surround with alot of spores,but I don't know,15 carriers is alot of firepower... The map is belshir so 3 tight chokes helps him alot -,- | ||
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11B
United States188 Posts
Btw I don't think queens+ hydras 10:30 will make any difference He only had 3 Stargate units, 3 cannons, and a handful of sentries at 11:00. You had 20 Hydra's which is decent, but my norm is 24 Hydra's, with Range and +1 (you had +1 too) hatched around the 10:40 mark. Now if I add a Nydus then I'd probably have the same Hydra count as you, but I would have had +1, And Range, and 6-8 Queens. Now in your replay, take a look at how many Hydra's you're about to hatch back home. It's only 3. Your macro slipped pretty bad. You could easily almost have 10 more Hydras just about to hatch. Plus you have 5 in the middle of the map and 11 left from your initial attack. So if you had a Nydus you could be attacking in about 15-20 more seconds with almost 30 Hydra again, with Range. Now if your initial attack already had Range + you had 6-8 Queens the game would be EZPZ. So imo, the Nydus plus Queens, in conjunction with early grooved spines would make the game too easy for U ^^. | ||
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ReMinD_
Croatia846 Posts
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Durmaz21
Sweden52 Posts
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