EPTThe HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 48
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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Sissors
1395 Posts
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FancyCaTSC2
56 Posts
On April 12 2013 18:37 A Wild Sosd wrote: How are people answering lots of infestors when going bio mine? I feel especially in the late game as soon as he land 1 or 2 fungals i get torn apart by his ultras. Switch into Tanks and use them to focus-fire his infestors. Also many many mauradeurs. On April 12 2013 09:47 cythaze wrote: Hey guys, on stream Demuslim lately is using a pretty economic reaper opening it seems (he said he copied it from Polt) that gets him 4 Reapers and pretty fast third OC, anybody has a decent BO for this style at hand? (meaning when to get additional factories, ebays, raxes and so on) vZ or vP? | ||
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Baum
Germany1010 Posts
On April 12 2013 19:37 FancyCaTSC2 wrote: Switch into Tanks and use them to focus-fire his infestors. Also many many mauradeurs. vZ or vP? It's a TvT build. I think it's quite good against expanding terrans but against teching terrans I don't think you can get the third CC like Demuslim does. He builds the CC after 4 reapers are out and get a techlab and a reactor on his raxes and transitions from there. Obviously since you have reapers you should be able to scout if you need to get a engineering bay or more raxes before the third CC. | ||
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A Wild Sosd
Australia421 Posts
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Bulugulu
Israel250 Posts
On April 12 2013 22:55 A Wild Sosd wrote: Are there any decent fast 3CC build vs protoss that are safe with proper scouting? If you open 15 gas reactor, then you can choose to add a 3rd CC before +2 rax, if your opponent expanded and you don't see him being aggressive soon. However, this obviously delays your bio timing... Personally I usually add a 3rd CC after +2 rax. It's quite early anyway, and if you apply pressure correctly you'll delay his 3rd plenty. | ||
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ThePianoDentist
United Kingdom698 Posts
On April 12 2013 18:29 DifuntO wrote: It's been almost a month now since the release of HotS and I realized something.After almost 200 games I never made a single banshee,not even in TvT. What do you guys think about this unit and what is it's role now in HotS? in tvt with the threat of hellbat drops, widow mine drops and banshees I am pretty much blindly building a turret in my main mineral line in tvt. Where they do have use for me is when I am playing mech against biomech i have air control so add a couple of banshees to let me snipe siege tanks if I get contained hard. in tvp if you are going bio i see no reason to make them. however I mech and i always get them after expoing, i start cloak as my raven pops out so they usually dont scout im going cloak and therefore they either have to have cannons in mineral line or have an obs at each expansion which you wont usually have if you leave an obs outside my base to spot me moving out. therefore my late cloak banshees still do damage. then the map control they add is invaluable letting me take watchtowers and deny proxy pylons. I can also survive midgame aggression with thor banshee and bunkers, sniping obs for my cloakshees. Theyre also great versus immortals, If i scout double robo immortals i will often throw up another port or two to make more banshees. in tvz hellion banshee is still decent...but, i think zergs have found roach timings where banshees are just not good enough defence. also with the metagame going away from ling infestor into mutas cloakshees only give you map control for a limited time. also with all the zerg early pressure on ladder with reaper openings it flows better to get a techlab on your factory and making 1 siege tank before going reactor hellions as reactor isnt finished on rax when factory finishes and you need a couple of marines to go in bunker.... therefore this delays any cloak banshee play even longer meaning you shouldnt be able to get hardly any damage done with cloakshees....and hellions with mines and reapers can offer you similar kind of map control and denial of early creep spread until zerg has detection. | ||
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Treehead
999 Posts
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Infinite976
United States92 Posts
Right now in TvT I've been going 8/8/8/9 (sd, rax, gas, rax) proxy reaper and have really enjoyed it, reaper micro is alot of fun and in diamond league I have about 80% win rate with it. In both TvP and TvZ I've been going for Sound's Hellbat drop, which is a little ironic as Sound did this in a TvT game, but its been fun to practice medivac micro nonetheless, although I mainly play bio so my follow-ups seem pretty awkward at times. Once the 7min-ish drop is executed I either follow it up with an expand or an all-in depending on how it went, and have had approximately 50% winrate with it in TvZ/P. One thought I've had some success with in TvP is proxy widow mine, but haven't found a full on aggression/all-in build that fits real well with it. Any ideas, or definitive answers are much appreciated. I made it to diamond with macro builds, and since HoTS release have been executing more aggression/all-ins mainly for practice with how the new/improved units feel. Sorry if this was answered previously, I've read most of this thread, but not all. Thanks in advance! | ||
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plgElwood
Germany518 Posts
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HeeroFX
United States2704 Posts
On April 13 2013 02:02 plgElwood wrote: Is it Normal for TvT that the Hellbat guy always wins? Yes if he did a ton of worker DMG. What if both go hellbats? | ||
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Thor.Rush
Sweden702 Posts
On April 13 2013 01:40 Infinite976 wrote: What's the most effective All-in for each match up (either 1 or 2 base)? Right now in TvT I've been going 8/8/8/9 (sd, rax, gas, rax) proxy reaper and have really enjoyed it, reaper micro is alot of fun and in diamond league I have about 80% win rate with it. In both TvP and TvZ I've been going for Sound's Hellbat drop, which is a little ironic as Sound did this in a TvT game, but its been fun to practice medivac micro nonetheless, although I mainly play bio so my follow-ups seem pretty awkward at times. Once the 7min-ish drop is executed I either follow it up with an expand or an all-in depending on how it went, and have had approximately 50% winrate with it in TvZ/P. One thought I've had some success with in TvP is proxy widow mine, but haven't found a full on aggression/all-in build that fits real well with it. Any ideas, or definitive answers are much appreciated. I made it to diamond with macro builds, and since HoTS release have been executing more aggression/all-ins mainly for practice with how the new/improved units feel. Sorry if this was answered previously, I've read most of this thread, but not all. Thanks in advance! These days, most all-ins/pressure builds involve expanding behind it. Hard to say what the most effective all-in is. You can do early marine scv allins in TvP and TvZ, but I would mainly do it in TvP since it's easier to fake 1 rax FE. In TvP there is also a marauder widow mine push, but I don't know too much about it. In general, though, 1 base all-ins are pretty bad for terran, especially vs zerg. In diamond, maybe it's alright, but not so much at high master/low gm for me. 2 base allins are very common vs protoss (MMM viking + scvs, attack before he has storm). 2 base allin vs zerg is not common, but I sometimes do a 5 rax marine marauder +1 stim/combat timing (expand behind it). It can be really strong. | ||
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geokilla
Canada8244 Posts
I'm gonna practice them against the AI on Elite. | ||
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serum321
United States606 Posts
On April 13 2013 07:10 geokilla wrote: How do I defend a Protoss who 3 Gate Robos or 4 Gate? Mothership Core and Time Warp makes it impossible for me to defend against right now. Losing all my games against Protoss today because of these all ins. Any specific build I should go for? I go 1 Rax FE in TvP. I'm gonna practice them against the AI on Hard. Bunkers shut down these builds hard, you just have to scout it coming. | ||
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geokilla
Canada8244 Posts
On April 13 2013 07:23 serum321 wrote: Bunkers shut down these builds hard, you just have to scout it coming. Had em. No go... | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
Fantasy used it vs True in WCS game 1 on whirlwind like 2 nights ago and I wanted to see more examples of it. Also, a question about that game: Fantasy was really floating minerals at ~5:00-5:30. This was when he scouted the Zerg (he sends the SCV that builds the CC). Is it correct to assume that he was going to add his 3rd CC before a 2nd gas/port and then go for a more normal 4M but decided to go for the fast drop before 3rd CC because of the starting positions on whirlwind OR was he scouting for some kind of aggressive build and could have spent the minerals in a defensive way? Im comparing his build to the build Yoda used vs DRG in WCS on the same map and I just dont understand why Fantasy got his 2nd gas and 3rd CC when he did. | ||
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ThePianoDentist
United Kingdom698 Posts
well did you have scvs already surrounding the bunker set on auto repair? with minimum 3 bunkers in case of 3 gate robo. 4 gate they really shouldnt be able to kill the bunkers quick enough to beat even 2 repaired bunkers. complaining about time warp which has no effect on units sat in bunkers suggests you didn't have your scvs in place in time. its debatable where 1 rax fe is safe anymore what with how early proxy oracles can hit your base. it may be better to expand later after getting gas to get early reactor on rax and a factory for a couple of widow mines, im not sure, i like to harass so i havent experimented much with gasless expand in hots, just going on what ive seen in pro games | ||
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ThePianoDentist
United Kingdom698 Posts
On April 13 2013 02:02 plgElwood wrote: Is it Normal for TvT that the Hellbat guy always wins? no not if defended correctly | ||
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fatalslaughter
16 Posts
Currently I open 12rax/12 rax, reaper, reactor, pull 3 scvs off gas, expand, put SCVS back on gas, then... Factory Factory Armory Factory I use the barracks to make the adons, and when its not making addons i pump marines, and push at 10ish minutes with as many marines, hellbats, tanks, and 1/2 my SCV's. It feels fairly unoptomised, but its worked pretty well at diamond and low masters. | ||
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ThePianoDentist
United Kingdom698 Posts
On April 13 2013 01:32 Treehead wrote: For people who mech in TvZ - what triggers cause you to attack/pressure? Mech is largely composed of slower units, and since I have issues with knowing the right time to push, I've thrown away a number of armies foolishly due to poorly timed pushes. you dont ever want to be attacking before at least 160 supply due to mech only being cost efficient in large numbers. its really hard to hit a timing before hive tech, you used to be able to do this with broods but vipers come out way quicker than broodlords. If you can keep an eye on when hive goes down pushing out as hive is starting can be a nice timing depending on whether they 'delay' your push much. to try and prevent them delaying your push do a hellbat drop or something similar to force some of their units back so you can push out far before your first siege. Often though hive is so fast i cant punish it, in these situations you just have to harass with hellion run-bys, hellbat drops etc whilst you get up 4th and maybe 5th and start to transition into sky/mech where you have two techlab starports and a reactor port to incorporate ravens and vikings to beat any broodlord switch or to be able to snipe vipers and be able to hunter seeker versus roach hydra viper. You can then also go into bcs from here if you have total air domination. One thing to note dont do what I do, its very easy with mine heavy armies to accidentally suicide your air units in battles with mine splash so keep airunits on a separate hotkey and pull them away from minefields. when i do often panic push is if you think swarmhosts are coming. Swarmhosts are really really good against mech but for some inexplicable reason this is a zvt style that i actually have a really high win-rate against. If you let the swarmhosts set up outside your base that can be game. If you notice that he is not pressuring you at all and seems to have no units or you scan and see infestation pit upgrading but havent seen infestors then he is probably massing swarmhosts and at this point I push out whatever the situation. As if you can force the swarm hosts to be used defensively then you are in an infinitely better position because you can then slice units off to snipe any outer expansions he tries to take as well as being able to slow push into his 3rd (or wherever you tried to attack). | ||
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HeyJude
United States157 Posts
On April 13 2013 14:12 fatalslaughter wrote: and 1/2 my SCV's. Every time a terran pulls mass scvs for an attack god kills a cute little kitten  | ||
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