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On April 11 2013 06:34 LardMaster wrote:Yes. But you gotta make sure to target tanks with your marauders otherwise you get shredded and do drops and stuff (both on his base to damage economy and on tanks if you see them undefended). However I would hasten to add that I think mech is better against marine/tank.
It was standard understanding in WoL that Marine tank > bio. Mech > marine tank. Bio > mech (map dependent)
Marine tank vs bio is a very, VERY uphill battle. He will have almost equal marine count, same upgrades, and tanks to zone out any kind of attack you try.
I would suggest opening bio, and midgame getting 2-3 factories if he's staying on marine tank, or transitioned to, and try to out tank him. I always go bio opening, then drop 2 facs on two base with only 3 rax. I zone out my expos with tanks, take a third and go into 5 rax 3 fac for an extremely tank heavy push.
And to all those who are complaining about TvP. Don't play 100% standard if you don't want to micro, or accept the later game difficulties. I don't. I'm almost 1k masters ATM, and I never play TvP straight up. I have been, on large maps, opening reactor hellions. Even if they scout, they're so mine scared they go 1 gate nexus robo most times, and have 2 stalkers, and 1 MSC and maybe a sentry out when you run in 4 hellions, with 2 on their heels.
Abuse the meta if you can't handle the standard game.
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On April 11 2013 06:34 LardMaster wrote:Yes. But you gotta make sure to target tanks with your marauders otherwise you get shredded and do drops and stuff (both on his base to damage economy and on tanks if you see them undefended). However I would hasten to add that I think mech is better against marine/tank.
I disagree, MMM against marine/tank is not good when both players evenly skilled. Ofc. its not unwinneable, but marinetank has an advantage over MMM, certainly when tanknumbers are high.
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What's a good way to deal with roach hydra? I usually play bio hellbat, and when I see roach hydra, go into 2 fac tank production. Should I mix in more marauders, and continue heavy tank production, or what is best against roach hydra?
Usually what gets me is the fast 2/2 timing mass off three bases.
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On April 11 2013 09:36 iAmJeffReY wrote:
What's a good way to deal with roach hydra? I usually play bio hellbat, and when I see roach hydra, go into 2 fac tank production. Should I mix in more marauders, and continue heavy tank production, or what is best against roach hydra?
Usually what gets me is the fast 2/2 timing mass off three bases.
Standard Bio/Tank with building marauders out of a few techlabed raxes. Although drops are great vs roach/hydra be careful with them and overall army movement as a Zerg can max insanely fast on 3/4 bases with roaches, so try to only trade if you´re sure to win the fight or have some sort of defense to fall back on at home (don´t load up half your army and expect 2 tanks a few widow mines and the remaining bio forces to hold of a speedroach/speedhydra attack + the incoming reeinforcements)
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Guys I saw a one base baneling bust coming from a mile away after I 8-8-8'd and got rolled even with a lot of prep time
So two questions, how on earth do you stop baneling busts and do you guys know any effective builds against Z, I've been having a hard time.
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On April 11 2013 09:36 iAmJeffReY wrote:
What's a good way to deal with roach hydra? I usually play bio hellbat, and when I see roach hydra, go into 2 fac tank production. Should I mix in more marauders, and continue heavy tank production, or what is best against roach hydra?
Usually what gets me is the fast 2/2 timing mass off three bases.
You need three fact if you go heavy mines or hellbats before three bases. From my experience, you can't stop the push in time with just two fact pumping tanks from those openings.
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I played a TvP the other day where my opponent massed Tempests when I went 4M. even with a forest of turrets it made me want to punch a baby, and it was hardy full-on skytoss either. Like 5, 6 tempests would fly in and blow things up, and they'd almost always have the range advantage against my forces and they took out the Vikings I made with ease. If i killed one then he would just make 3 more. Then when I was running around trying to protect my bases from tempests he'd just run in a bunch of zealots and kill the SCVs at my expansions. He was on 2 base the whole time but I spent the whole time playing defense before getting frustrated and just leaving.
I don't know what to do about that, he went early stargate and I held the oracles well enough but it didn't matter. It feels like TvP is impossible for me, and its funny too because most of my friends that I play with are toss. Not that I can ever beat them. It's like if you don't kill them by like 15 minutes you've lost because any deathball composition they make will just win, and its not like I'm getting to do a whole lot of harass because I play in low leagues where everyone just 6pools or 888s or does warp gate proxy pylon rushes. I know that if you're playing defensively all game you're going to lose but idk, I pretty much have to defend from the get go.
When I see a Protoss against me in loading screen I'm just like, "damnit". I don't even know what my TvP win rate is, but it's not good at all.
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Hi all, I am a plat Terran player, TvP is def my worst match up.
Is there any viable 1-base allin, early pressure/timing builds that give us Terran more options early game.
I know that widow mine drop is an option, but since the DT drop build is so popular at the moment, they can get an obs out and counter is easily.
I feel like at the current TvP meta, Terran is so predictable while on the other hand Protoss has so many option to pressure or punish a greedy/careless Terran.Namely DT drops, immortal allin, oracle harass, 4 Gate, MSC stalker harass etc. If we fail to scout what is coming, those builds can do massive and fatal damage.
Any advise?
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Are anyone playing biomine successfully in TvT? I like playing a fast paced, heavily aggressive and mobile style, which works well in TvZ and TvP but in TvT I feel tanks are almost mandatory, and I feel they force me to play a much slower paced game. I was wondering if mines could replace the tanks role while allowing me to stay more mobile. I am masters currently at around 950 points.
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On April 11 2013 09:36 iAmJeffReY wrote:
What's a good way to deal with roach hydra? I usually play bio hellbat, and when I see roach hydra, go into 2 fac tank production. Should I mix in more marauders, and continue heavy tank production, or what is best against roach hydra?
Usually what gets me is the fast 2/2 timing mass off three bases.
pure bio, youll never get enough tanks in time to defend properly. stall enough time, get upgrades.
the thing is you need to keep up scouting. he cant deny ur third if he transitions into infestors. if he doesnt, max on 2 base marine maurauder medivac 3/3 and just amove him. if he does, get third play normal game. start dropping, start widow mines
On April 11 2013 15:49 Dmn wrote:
Are anyone playing biomine successfully in TvT? I like playing a fast paced, heavily aggressive and mobile style, which works well in TvZ and TvP but in TvT I feel tanks are almost mandatory, and I feel they force me to play a much slower paced game. I was wondering if mines could replace the tanks role while allowing me to stay more mobile. I am masters currently at around 950 points.
no they wont. a couple of mines are helpful for drop defense and helion runbys, but otherwise marine tank is still the way to go. alternatively, mmm vs mech
Is there any viable 1-base allin, early pressure/timing builds that give us Terran more options early game.
no, there are no viable 1base allins anymore, since the mothership core pretty much defends them by itself.
however there are various 1 base pressure builds (such as the widow mine drop). theres also the 8 marine 3 helions medivac drop/runby. 2rax (gas) is unfortunately dead aswell. apart from that, there isnt much more unfortunately.
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Wow this game - TvZ - I was maxed out bio ball with 2/2 still lost to the zerg - who made every unit in the book - when I am 200/200 with bio ball how do I transition over to a stronger army seems no use late game to ultra and infestors and then BLs..
http://drop.sc/321739
Havent you been in this place 
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On April 11 2013 12:38 suicideyear wrote:
I played a TvP the other day where my opponent massed Tempests when I went 4M. even with a forest of turrets it made me want to punch a baby, and it was hardy full-on skytoss either. Like 5, 6 tempests would fly in and blow things up, and they'd almost always have the range advantage against my forces and they took out the Vikings I made with ease. If i killed one then he would just make 3 more. Then when I was running around trying to protect my bases from tempests he'd just run in a bunch of zealots and kill the SCVs at my expansions. He was on 2 base the whole time but I spent the whole time playing defense before getting frustrated and just leaving.
I don't know what to do about that, he went early stargate and I held the oracles well enough but it didn't matter. It feels like TvP is impossible for me, and its funny too because most of my friends that I play with are toss. Not that I can ever beat them. It's like if you don't kill them by like 15 minutes you've lost because any deathball composition they make will just win, and its not like I'm getting to do a whole lot of harass because I play in low leagues where everyone just 6pools or 888s or does warp gate proxy pylon rushes. I know that if you're playing defensively all game you're going to lose but idk, I pretty much have to defend from the get go.
When I see a Protoss against me in loading screen I'm just like, "damnit". I don't even know what my TvP win rate is, but it's not good at all.
Without a replay ...
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Is there any viable 1-base allin, early pressure/timing builds that give us Terran more options early game.
no, there are no viable 1base allins anymore, since the mothership core pretty much defends them by itself.
however there are various 1 base pressure builds (such as the widow mine drop). theres also the 8 marine 3 helions medivac drop/runby. 2rax (gas) is unfortunately dead aswell. apart from that, there isnt much more unfortunately.[/QUOTE]
how about 11/11?
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On April 11 2013 11:04 SneakMind wrote:
Guys I saw a one base baneling bust coming from a mile away after I 8-8-8'd and got rolled even with a lot of prep time
So two questions, how on earth do you stop baneling busts and do you guys know any effective builds against Z, I've been having a hard time.
Need more detail really but...
Tanks, make sure you target the banelings. This is the most important thing. 1 tank is usually enough if its well positioned, but more make it easier, just make sure you target fire!
Bunkers behind your wall (out of splash damage range)
1 base vs 1 base that should hold any bust. But 8/8/8 will put you in a bad spot economically. Then again an early bane bust will do the same for him.
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On April 11 2013 13:31 stoppersur wrote:
Hi all, I am a plat Terran player, TvP is def my worst match up.
Is there any viable 1-base allin, early pressure/timing builds that give us Terran more options early game.
I know that widow mine drop is an option, but since the DT drop build is so popular at the moment, they can get an obs out and counter is easily.
I feel like at the current TvP meta, Terran is so predictable while on the other hand Protoss has so many option to pressure or punish a greedy/careless Terran.Namely DT drops, immortal allin, oracle harass, 4 Gate, MSC stalker harass etc. If we fail to scout what is coming, those builds can do massive and fatal damage.
Any advise?
A nice pressure build I have been using lately attacks with 6 mines and a bunch of combat shield marines very early in the game, while expanding behind it and gives you different possibilites to follow up.
BO Roughly like this:
+ Show Spoiler +
12 rax
15 gas (14 SCV builds it when it comes out)
16 OC
16 2nd depot
20 CC
@ 150 gas fact + reactor (should have 3 marines)
150minerals 2nd rax
150minerals 3rd rax
(You dont need a 3rd depot CC will finish in time)
1st rax builds techlab after reactor, start combat shield immediately after
Swap reactor to factory make window mines
Move out with 6 mines and your marines when combat shield is about to finish (you will have 4 mines when combat shield is about to pop and have to rally the other 2 across the map)
The goal of your push is of course to do damage, but it eventually kills the protoss straight away
Of course the usual things apply: keep out an eye for proxy stargate or oracle play in general, constant marine scv production from all rax, you can start stim right after combat shield finishes something you should not forget. be aware that this push delays your medivacs.
Other than that there are different possible transitions out of this:
-keep the pressure if you are about to kill him
-go into double ebay
-go into fast 3rd
-(sucessfully defend his all in)
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I am tired of reading questions already answered in the OP. Stop being lazy.
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 11 2013 18:34 FancyCaTSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 13:31 stoppersur wrote:
Hi all, I am a plat Terran player, TvP is def my worst match up.
Is there any viable 1-base allin, early pressure/timing builds that give us Terran more options early game.
I know that widow mine drop is an option, but since the DT drop build is so popular at the moment, they can get an obs out and counter is easily.
I feel like at the current TvP meta, Terran is so predictable while on the other hand Protoss has so many option to pressure or punish a greedy/careless Terran.Namely DT drops, immortal allin, oracle harass, 4 Gate, MSC stalker harass etc. If we fail to scout what is coming, those builds can do massive and fatal damage.
Any advise?
A nice pressure build I have been using lately attacks with 6 mines and a bunch of combat shield marines very early in the game, while expanding behind it and gives you different possibilites to follow up. BO Roughly like this: + Show Spoiler +
12 rax
15 gas (14 SCV builds it when it comes out)
16 OC
16 2nd depot
20 CC
@ 150 gas fact + reactor (should have 3 marines)
150minerals 2nd rax
150minerals 3rd rax
(You dont need a 3rd depot CC will finish in time)
1st rax builds techlab after reactor, start combat shield immediately after
Swap reactor to factory make window mines
Move out with 6 mines and your marines when combat shield is about to finish (you will have 4 mines when combat shield is about to pop and have to rally the other 2 across the map)
The goal of your push is of course to do damage, but it eventually kills the protoss straight away
Of course the usual things apply: keep out an eye for proxy stargate or oracle play in general, constant marine scv production from all rax, you can start stim right after combat shield finishes something you should not forget. be aware that this push delays your medivacs.
Other than that there are different possible transitions out of this:
-keep the pressure if you are about to kill him
-go into double ebay
-go into fast 3rd
-(sucessfully defend his all in)
Really like the sound of this, you wouldn't happen to have a replay or two would you? Is it just strict marines no marauders?
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Yea, so much questions have been answered in the OP that keep getting asked.
Read the OP before asking. Your question might be there.
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On April 11 2013 16:59 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 12:38 suicideyear wrote:
I played a TvP the other day where my opponent massed Tempests when I went 4M. even with a forest of turrets it made me want to punch a baby, and it was hardy full-on skytoss either. Like 5, 6 tempests would fly in and blow things up, and they'd almost always have the range advantage against my forces and they took out the Vikings I made with ease. If i killed one then he would just make 3 more. Then when I was running around trying to protect my bases from tempests he'd just run in a bunch of zealots and kill the SCVs at my expansions. He was on 2 base the whole time but I spent the whole time playing defense before getting frustrated and just leaving.
I don't know what to do about that, he went early stargate and I held the oracles well enough but it didn't matter. It feels like TvP is impossible for me, and its funny too because most of my friends that I play with are toss. Not that I can ever beat them. It's like if you don't kill them by like 15 minutes you've lost because any deathball composition they make will just win, and its not like I'm getting to do a whole lot of harass because I play in low leagues where everyone just 6pools or 888s or does warp gate proxy pylon rushes. I know that if you're playing defensively all game you're going to lose but idk, I pretty much have to defend from the get go.
When I see a Protoss against me in loading screen I'm just like, "damnit". I don't even know what my TvP win rate is, but it's not good at all. Without a replay ...
i was just venting.
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ok a question that is not in the first page
with mech it's better to go for 1-3-5(1 with one base 3 with two, ecc...) factory or 2-4-6?
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EPT
