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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On April 05 2014 14:29 Sitinte wrote:
Is there any advice or replays I can watch on how to defend against TvT 2rax reaper openings on Heavy Rain LE? It's pretty much the go to build on that map, but I'd like some insight from people who have successfully held it off.
I got that once this season, I went gaz first into banshee as usual, I just made hellions quite fast to deal with it and it was quite easy. If you are afraid you can take 3/4 scv with your first marines to deal with the initial harass while waiting for the hellion to come.
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To the guys who wants to mech:
You can mine about 100 gas every 45 seconds from one gas. This is the exact build time of a reactor, reaper and siege tank. The only reason I mention the reactor and reaper is because you can see for yourself by building a reactor on exactly 50 gas, then 2 reapers will basically finish with 100 gas left for another two reapers. Back to mech.
Thats 200 gas per base per 45 seconds.
Tanks cost 125 gas per 45 seconds.
400 gas on two base can support 3 tanks with 25 gas spared per cycle (thats not much for other stuff), OR 2 tanks with 150 gas saved.
I prefer one tank per base, so the other 75 gas per base can go towards upgrades and starport units.
For example two base set up: 4 factory 2 reactor 2 techlab, one starport reactor, one armory 4 gas for 400 gas per 45 sec
4 hellbat: 400 min!!! massive mineral dump, like huge!
2 tanks: 250 gas
2 vikings 150 gas
This will spend all your gas perfectly while you add a third base to get gas 5 and 6. And allow you to get upgrades by skiping a single tank, or a single reactored viking round
3 base gives you 200 more gas. One more factory and one more starport or a ghost acadamy + rax(s)
1 more tank = 125 gas
1 banshee = ~75 gas per 45 sec (100 gas per 60 sec)
1 ghost = 100+ gas per 45 sec (100 gas per 40 sec)
A well balanced 3 base set up should be something like 5 factory, 2 starport (or a ghost academy vs toss) 1.5 armory (I think a second armory can't really be afforded till 3 base, so its only to help catch up on armor).
Of course you can tweak this all you want. Less tanks more banshees. More tanks, less vikings. or pure hellion if your name is Dayshi
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Hi I am a 1500 point Terran player who loses a lot of games that I shouldn't. I throw games away very often because I'm an impatient player. Also in TvP I feel in late game I have no chance to win so I always try to avoid getting there. I feel as though that if toss rushes forge at any point in the game, the game is automatically doomed to be a 40 minute + game since you will never catch up on upgrades as a terran player without chrono boost.
I would like to be able to win TvPs in which I am ahead, whether it be in upgrades, economy, or army without having to wait 30+ minutes to do so. My multi-tasking, macro and micro are better than the players I lose to 8/10 times when I throw my games. I just don't have the patience to win a game that in my head, should already be mine.
Please help me stop throwing games and play toward my impatient playstyle. Thank you.
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Hey doc and ouija - your answers are EXTREMELY insightful and exactly what I was wondering. thanks for those...I appreciate it!
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On April 06 2014 03:50 Doc Brawler wrote:
You can mine about 100 gas every 45 seconds from one gas. This is the exact build time of a reactor,
Really good post but a reactor takes 50 seconds to build ^^
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On April 06 2014 09:00 terranimbastimamove wrote:
Hi I am a 1500 point Terran player who loses a lot of games that I shouldn't. I throw games away very often because I'm an impatient player. Also in TvP I feel in late game I have no chance to win so I always try to avoid getting there. I feel as though that if toss rushes forge at any point in the game, the game is automatically doomed to be a 40 minute + game since you will never catch up on upgrades as a terran player without chrono boost.
I would like to be able to win TvPs in which I am ahead, whether it be in upgrades, economy, or army without having to wait 30+ minutes to do so. My multi-tasking, macro and micro are better than the players I lose to 8/10 times when I throw my games. I just don't have the patience to win a game that in my head, should already be mine.
Please help me stop throwing games and play toward my impatient playstyle. Thank you.
Play a more aggressive play style if that is something you are interested in. I look at it like probability, the more you harass your opponent the more likely they are to slip up whether that is in their macro or micro. Just make sure the aggressive strategies that you choose are ones that you can keep up with mechanically. You could possibly even try watching a few FPVOD's of protoss players in PvT(maybe even the ones you face), and just watch the in-game clock and the infrastructure for specific playstyles. After watching you can just use this knowledge in your own games and you can better recognize times when you can get aggressive which will help a lot when playing more macro based style if that is how you prefer to play.
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On April 06 2014 18:41 Kvassten wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2014 03:50 Doc Brawler wrote:
You can mine about 100 gas every 45 seconds from one gas. This is the exact build time of a reactor,
Really good post but a reactor takes 50 seconds to build ^^
I believe it is about 112-118 gas per minute per gas geyser
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On April 06 2014 09:00 terranimbastimamove wrote:
Hi I am a 1500 point Terran player who loses a lot of games that I shouldn't. I throw games away very often because I'm an impatient player. Also in TvP I feel in late game I have no chance to win so I always try to avoid getting there. I feel as though that if toss rushes forge at any point in the game, the game is automatically doomed to be a 40 minute + game since you will never catch up on upgrades as a terran player without chrono boost.
I would like to be able to win TvPs in which I am ahead, whether it be in upgrades, economy, or army without having to wait 30+ minutes to do so. My multi-tasking, macro and micro are better than the players I lose to 8/10 times when I throw my games. I just don't have the patience to win a game that in my head, should already be mine.
Please help me stop throwing games and play toward my impatient playstyle. Thank you.
I'm only around 700 pts, but I only play 2k-2.5k other people -- and this is the exact way I lose all the time.
Just keep doing what you do, but pull back earlier than you normally do. It's what I'm having to start to do. I came to the realization that I was avoiding going late game with these 'high level' players due to my fear of lack of skill. So just watch your replays of losses, see that you can slowly change your aggressive stance to not overextend so much.
I learned I scout through drops and different aggressive plays. I don't do normal scouting. I scout with purpose, you could say. Once I kept that up, but didn't overextend as much or lose those drops trying to get in a BIT more damage, I put myself into better positions
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On April 07 2014 02:49 EJK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2014 18:41 Kvassten wrote:On April 06 2014 03:50 Doc Brawler wrote:
You can mine about 100 gas every 45 seconds from one gas. This is the exact build time of a reactor,
Really good post but a reactor takes 50 seconds to build ^^ I believe it is about 112-118 gas per minute per gas geyser
Yes you are both right, good catch EJK
I used the 45 seconds only to make the maths easier. gas per min is really only useful if you convert every unit's gas cost and build time to per min, but since a tank's build time is 45 sec, I thought it would be an easy example to just consider 45 seconds the standard macro cycle for mech. A very simplified example.
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In TvZ, when and where do you scout if he goes Roach Hydra or just a few Roaches for defense vs Hellions?
I lost a couple of games where the Zerg went for Roach Hydra which completely owns a normal 4M build if you don't have tanks. Then in another game a Zerg faked Roach Hydra (only 5 Hydras or so) and went for Standard switch. Because of the tanks I was forced to play passive and when I pushed out it was too late because Baneling Ling is so much stronger vs Tanks than vs Mines.
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On April 09 2014 22:06 TurboMaN wrote:
In TvZ, when and where do you scout if he goes Roach Hydra or just a few Roaches for defense vs Hellions?
I lost a couple of games where the Zerg went for Roach Hydra which completely owns a normal 4M build if you don't have tanks. Then in another game a Zerg faked Roach Hydra (only 5 Hydras or so) and went for Standard switch. Because of the tanks I was forced to play passive and when I pushed out it was too late because Baneling Ling is so much stronger vs Tanks than vs Mines.
Check the roaches for 1/1, see a hydra den, see a commitment to roaches (over 5), roach speed research, lot's of static defense, delayed 4rth. These are all tells!
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
Guys, what is in your opinion the best all round lategame tvp bio comp? Lile how many ghosts how many vikings and how much bio+medivacs?
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On April 09 2014 23:27 GumBa wrote:
Guys, what is in your opinion the best all round lategame tvp bio comp? Lile how many ghosts how many vikings and how much bio+medivacs?
20-25 Ghosts
20-25 Vikings
8-10 Medivacs
Rest bio
Possibly 2-4 Ravens if there are some Tempests.
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On April 09 2014 22:06 TurboMaN wrote:
In TvZ, when and where do you scout if he goes Roach Hydra or just a few Roaches for defense vs Hellions?
I lost a couple of games where the Zerg went for Roach Hydra which completely owns a normal 4M build if you don't have tanks. Then in another game a Zerg faked Roach Hydra (only 5 Hydras or so) and went for Standard switch. Because of the tanks I was forced to play passive and when I pushed out it was too late because Baneling Ling is so much stronger vs Tanks than vs Mines.
as a zerg i've never even heard of "faking roach hydra" vs terran. hydra den + hydras + hydra upgrades is a lot of gas to spend faking out a terran so you can just play standard anyway, because not every terran is going to overreact. if he didn't get at least grooved spines the hydras would be really bad in a fight, which will mean either way he's wasted a lot of gas and/or his army is weak due to the low hydra count, lack of upgrades, etc. with roach/hydra you really really want to maximize your army, because it's a style that has a very fragile tipping point between crushing the terran and being crushed by the terran. so if his army is weak and he knows that, he's probably not going to be super aggresive, and since roach/hydra is based on aggressive timings his play shouldn't make sense to you
it sounds like you're just more afraid of roach/hydra than you need to be. if the timing for him to move out and crush you passes, you should cautiously move out and take a base. timings don't last forever. once you have a decent tank count you don't have to continue turtling and producing tanks forever. or your problem could simply be that you let zerg macro up and build such a big bank that he was able to build whatever he wanted and pull off crushing tech switches at will
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Quick question, silver player here so I suck on many levels but my problem is this: I've met this several times on ladder when a zerg goes very quick roaches off one base with ling speed. I usually go reapers into hellions into banshee or biomine off one reaper. Now upon scouting the extremely fast roach warren I cancel the expansion and bunker up the front. At this point I usually have a reactor builing or finished with a factory and maybe an additional rax on the way but no marauders and by the time I'd get out 2-3 to battle the 11 or so roaches pummeling my front its way too late and even two bunkers with repair isn't enough. Teching to banshee would help but by the time the banshee deals with all the roaches I have no workers left. Any suggestions?
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On April 10 2014 03:42 d_runk wrote:
Quick question, silver player here so I suck on many levels but my problem is this: I've met this several times on ladder when a zerg goes very quick roaches off one base with ling speed. I usually go reapers into hellions into banshee or biomine off one reaper. Now upon scouting the extremely fast roach warren I cancel the expansion and bunker up the front. At this point I usually have a reactor builing or finished with a factory and maybe an additional rax on the way but no marauders and by the time I'd get out 2-3 to battle the 11 or so roaches pummeling my front its way too late and even two bunkers with repair isn't enough. Teching to banshee would help but by the time the banshee deals with all the roaches I have no workers left. Any suggestions?
Just don't open reaper vs Z.
Try going CC first or 1 Rax FE and no matter what build Z goes for, you should end up ahead.
If you're actually still going to go reaper anyways, then you should try going into bio tank. Fact -> Techlab on fact.
If you're doing this it's best to go 12gas and try to get cc asap. In silver league, not only will going tank help you in unit positioning ( as in teach you), but it will also help you have an easy transition to a widow mine MMM style. Since Full-bio players go play from Bronze -> Diamond usually have trouble using a combination of units Biotank/biomine/ghost mmm.
It's best to learn it early.
TL;DR: Since you're in silver you can go tanks, going tanks will make "harder" compositions easier to use, since youll have the practice, and going tanks pretty much counter zerg 100%. If you see him take early gases, try to spend your minerals into something that will hold mutas. I don't want to go into specifics. 2 more rax, or engi
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Just coming back to sc2 after a loooooooooong break, played zerg to diamond in WoL but i want to switch to Terran for now. Any simple builds i could start off with? maybe 1 per matchup or something. tytyty
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On April 10 2014 03:42 d_runk wrote:
Quick question, silver player here so I suck on many levels but my problem is this: I've met this several times on ladder when a zerg goes very quick roaches off one base with ling speed. I usually go reapers into hellions into banshee or biomine off one reaper. Now upon scouting the extremely fast roach warren I cancel the expansion and bunker up the front. At this point I usually have a reactor builing or finished with a factory and maybe an additional rax on the way but no marauders and by the time I'd get out 2-3 to battle the 11 or so roaches pummeling my front its way too late and even two bunkers with repair isn't enough. Teching to banshee would help but by the time the banshee deals with all the roaches I have no workers left. Any suggestions?
SCV scout. I usually rally my 13th SCV. No hatchery = expand on high ground instead of low ground, depot before CC, and marines + faster factory instead of reactor. Scout the extent of gas mining and expansion timing with your reaper; very late hatcheries / lots of gas = bunkers and tanks.
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On April 10 2014 04:47 ::Rhapsody wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2014 03:42 d_runk wrote:
Quick question, silver player here so I suck on many levels but my problem is this: I've met this several times on ladder when a zerg goes very quick roaches off one base with ling speed. I usually go reapers into hellions into banshee or biomine off one reaper. Now upon scouting the extremely fast roach warren I cancel the expansion and bunker up the front. At this point I usually have a reactor builing or finished with a factory and maybe an additional rax on the way but no marauders and by the time I'd get out 2-3 to battle the 11 or so roaches pummeling my front its way too late and even two bunkers with repair isn't enough. Teching to banshee would help but by the time the banshee deals with all the roaches I have no workers left. Any suggestions? Just don't open reaper vs Z. Try going CC first or 1 Rax FE and no matter what build Z goes for, you should end up ahead. If you're actually still going to go reaper anyways, then you should try going into bio tank. Fact -> Techlab on fact. If you're doing this it's best to go 12gas and try to get cc asap. In silver league, not only will going tank help you in unit positioning ( as in teach you), but it will also help you have an easy transition to a widow mine MMM style. Since Full-bio players go play from Bronze -> Diamond usually have trouble using a combination of units Biotank/biomine/ghost mmm. It's best to learn it early. TL;DR: Since you're in silver you can go tanks, going tanks will make "harder" compositions easier to use, since youll have the practice, and going tanks pretty much counter zerg 100%. If you see him take early gases, try to spend your minerals into something that will hold mutas. I don't want to go into specifics. 2 more rax, or engi
Reaper opening vs Zerg is one of the best openings; why would you recommend he not do it?
Dear d_runk, if you're looking for how to deal with fast roach when doing a reaper opening, the simple answer is that you should be able to scout the lack of a fast expansion from Zerg with your initial scouting SCV. What this means is he's either doing a 1-base play like fast roach, or just going pool first to make some early lings to put on a bit of harassment at your nat. In either case, simply make your nat CC in your main to be safe (consider using it to strengthen your wall), and have your reaper follow up with additional scouting to see exactly what the Zerg is doing (fast roaches, expansion, bane bust, etc.). Prepare accordingly with more rax, factory, bunkers, etc. -- whatever you need to do to hold your main ramp if he's gonna 1-base you, or simply take your nat if you're safe by floating down the CC.
This will put you in a much better position than cancelling the CC altogether, which results in 100 minerals lost and delaying your economy significantly even after you hold what the Zerg is throwing at you.
EDIT: ninja'd by B-rye88... D:
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Thanks for the help guys, I met a fast roach-speedling build again, although it wasn't a 1base allin and it was a bit late as well, but building the second cc in the main and pushing out two fast tanks helped to hold it with only a handful of marines dancing around a bunker to keep the roaches within range of the tanks :D. I transitioned into 2 more rax and a naked starport and won easily with a stim-medivac-5 tank timing (I heard it on a qxc VOD that you need at least 5 tanks to pack a punch against midgame zerg) against his bane roach ling (I never realised how easily tanks kill banes  ) . So thanks a lot once more.
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EPT
