EPTThe HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 267
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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korsarz
29 Posts
killed 23 probes with one drop etc, etc etc still lost. disgusting. I hope that Idra's wish concerning DK comes true one day. http://drop.sc/378093 | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
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korsarz
29 Posts
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BurningRanger
Germany303 Posts
On April 04 2014 17:26 korsarz wrote: how can I not rage when at pro level these two circumstances i.e. defending cheese and killing 75% of probes at 9th minute would be 'insta GG, well played sir'. But at lower levels, if you play toss, losing 23 probes out of 34 is 'no problem'. People tend to stay in the game longer, because they hope that the opponent does a massive mistake which brings them back into the game, while pros don't expect their opponents to throw away an already won game. | ||
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KOtical
Germany451 Posts
On April 04 2014 17:26 korsarz wrote: how can I not rage when at pro level these two circumstances i.e. defending cheese and killing 75% of probes at 9th minute would be 'insta GG, well played sir'. But at lower levels, if you play toss, losing 23 probes out of 34 is 'no problem'. havent seen your replay yet BUT no race should be able to come back from this disadvantage... in low levels Bronze-lower dia protoss is just to strong... as terran the tiniest error could cost u the game (not splitting once, forgetting something like stim etc.) i´ve seen protoss players forgetting their warpgate getting wrong upgrade first etc and still they win cause of their bullshit way to strong units... as terran when losing some scvs against f.e. oracle its already kinda over... as protoss well doesnt matter we can chronoboost anything we want/need... doesnt matter if u lose probes doesnt matter if u lose gateway units... | ||
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korsarz
29 Posts
On April 04 2014 20:29 KOtical wrote: as terran when losing some scvs against f.e. oracle its already kinda over... as protoss well doesnt matter we can chronoboost anything we want/need... doesnt matter if u lose probes doesnt matter if u lose gateway units... exactly. if you lose let's say 5-6 scvs vs an oracle and in the end you lose the game, protoss players will tell you "well, you haven't scouted, you've lost a few scvs thus you lose'. but if you kill 23 probes and defend a cheese without any losses and you still lose the game, then you will learn that you must have made a HUGE mistake and losing 23 probes doesn't cost protoss the game. kkthxbb | ||
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Nimix
France1809 Posts
So ok you're gold and I understand that, and while you defended the proxy (by making way too many turrets, way too few units, but still), and did tons of eco damage, your follow up makes no sense at all. You go pure tanks and mass CC, without hellions or support or whatever vs a stargate opener? A void ray could have killed your nat.. you let 2 zealots delay your 3rd for like 5mn... by 20mn you're still not maxed and you still havent pushed.. I mean what do you expect? doing eco damage is nice, but to win a game you need to kill his shit and not to let him 10mn to recover and make a good counter comp to your shitty comp (cause yeah, mech without mines or ghost is pretty shit in the matchup, and he was going double robo immo). Almost 25mn, you finally push, still with a pretty shitty comp (spending gas on banshees vs immo archons templars.. meh) but now he had time to be on equal bases with you (cause of your super late 3rd, total lack of harass cause pure tanks huehue), when you could have won by 10 to 15mn pushing with pretty much anything. I didn't watch the following 30mn, cause it doesn't matter. You complain and balance whine, but you do random stuff which makes pretty much no sense and play with a bad comp for the matchup. You kind of deserve to lose, as your mechanics aren't good at all and can't carry you when playing a bad comp. Focus on learning a build that has a purpose and makes sense (if you want to play mech, learn to play it properly, like with Lyyna's guide). On a side note, you may want to hotkey your army properly, so that you don't move command it around instead of amoving it like in the first fight (banshees and hellbats didn't attack for half the fight). And also to scout and push towards expansions, not toward his main with the longest possible rally. And I actually watched until 35mn after writing this, pushed by curiosity, and he killed more than double the workers you killed and out multitasked you. So in the end you played way more a-movy than he did.. So yeah I guess this was harsh but you can't complain about the game as you did in your posts when playing like that in my opinion, sorry. | ||
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korsarz
29 Posts
btw, you're a protoss, right? User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Nimix
France1809 Posts
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Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
On April 04 2014 21:02 korsarz wrote: stopped reading at 'way too many turrets' - I made two turrets. kkthxbb btw, you're a protoss, right? If you are going to stop reading two paragraphes into what people who watch your replay has to say then asking for help here is pretty much useless. If you can't handle feedback then don't post for help/advice while dumping your replay. If you do want help then read the posts and stop acting like this | ||
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Ake_Vader
Sweden58 Posts
On April 04 2014 21:02 korsarz wrote: stopped reading at 'way too many turrets' - I made two turrets. kkthxbb btw, you're a protoss, right? He is right though. You have to realise that even if you would've killed his whole worker force, as long as he still had 50 minerals to make a probe he still would've caught up eventually when leaving him alone for so long (a bit exaggerated, but not too much  )If you look at your worker count by the time you engage (~25min) it's around 70 for both of you and you're on equal amount of bases, both maxed out with similar upgrades, so... | ||
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pali_
Germany48 Posts
On April 04 2014 21:02 korsarz wrote: stopped reading at 'way too many turrets' - I made two turrets. kkthxbb btw, you're a protoss, right? Your mindset is just completely off. Your mindset should be: "I suck, I could have played much better by doing x and y differently, next time I will change this and that, etc, etc". You will never improve while maintaining your current mindset. Below high masters, balance is completely irrelevant. Until masters, the only thing that matters is macro. Don't get me wrong, it happens to me as well that I get frustrated by an a-moving 2base 2-2 archon zealot all-ining Protoss, but at the end, it's my fault if I lose, because I could have played / defended / scouted / whatever better / differently. So, your first step right now should be adjusting your mindset. If you don't do that and don't care for advice, there's no point in posting here. Cheers. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
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Doc Brawler
United States260 Posts
On April 04 2014 22:37 pali_ wrote: Your mindset is just completely off. Your mindset should be: "I suck, I could have played much better by doing x and y differently, next time I will change this and that, etc, etc". You will never improve while maintaining your current mindset. Below high masters, balance is completely irrelevant. Until masters, the only thing that matters is macro. Don't get me wrong, it happens to me as well that I get frustrated by an a-moving 2base 2-2 archon zealot all-ining Protoss, but at the end, it's my fault if I lose, because I could have played / defended / scouted / whatever better / differently. So, your first step right now should be adjusting your mindset. If you don't do that and don't care for advice, there's no point in posting here. Cheers. This is perfect. Whenever I loose or get cheesed, I say gg and actually mean it. If I lost to a zealot stalker and msc then there is something I need to do better, and there is always something to learn. Anyways, I am very interested in opening reaper expand in tvt but I'm not sure how to hold 2 rax reaper... I don't mind scouting early, but what is the correct response. abandon making my own reapers and just make rines? | ||
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
On April 05 2014 01:16 Doc Brawler wrote: This is perfect. Whenever I loose or get cheesed, I say gg and actually mean it. If I lost to a zealot stalker and msc then there is something I need to do better, and there is always something to learn. Anyways, I am very interested in opening reaper expand in tvt but I'm not sure how to hold 2 rax reaper... I don't mind scouting early, but what is the correct response. abandon making my own reapers and just make rines? I'm not really sure what the correct response is, skipping reapers entirely and going for a marine / hellion / medivac elevator sounds plausible to me but I feel like it would put you in a position where you have to do damage since your expansion would be later than your opponents. Maybe just adding a second rax and playing defensively with 2 rax reaper yourself (on a superior economy) is the best response? | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
Hear me out before you say this is dumb... If you kill probes, it opens up a window where your economy is superior to his and you are more powerful. It doesn't 1) make your current army able to fight his any more effectively 2) prevent him from rebuilding given enough time. So when you kill a lot of probes, you need to econ and macro hard for a few minutes and then go kill him while you have a huge advantage. Not drag the game out to both max again. Here are two scenarios I've been in very very often: 1) Terran does a huge drop that kills a lot of workers. Loses all the army in his drop and macros poorly while he's harassing. I take what I have at the moment and go kill him. 2) Terran does a good drop that kills a lot of workers. He proceeds to do nothing for 15 minutes (because he lost all the army he had presumably), letting me do whatever I want. Knowing that extreme greed is the only way back into this game, I double expand, cross my fingers, and eventually win the game. When Protoss kills 5-6 workers with an Oracle and loses the Oracle... that's it. All they've lost is the Oracle. Not 2 full medivacs full of units that they NEED later in the game. So even if you kill 23 probes... you have no army left to prevent the Protoss from being greedy and catching up. And especially if they are going Templar, they really don't need much mineral income to have a scary army... defending with Storm is really good. So they can play their way back into the game if you don't act on your opportunity. EDTI - I will add to this that I myself have lost many games against Terran where I killed 6-8 workers with an Oracle but then gave them too much time to MULE their way back into the game. A strong 2/2 timing attack off 2 bases would have just killed them at that point. | ||
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KurtistheTurtle
United States1966 Posts
1) As a terran, I need to control or anticipate the flow of the game. This means TvZ, I preemptively put out units which control where his are or do disproportionate damage TvP I actively scout/anticipate tech switches TvT I maintain awareness of his army, drops, and siege up at the key advantageous points etc etc. I know this is basic, but I just realized it. 2) As a terran player, I need to go into games with a general gameplan and goal (at least right now). 3) I've never looked or even conceived of a structured playstyle before. I've decided I want to try to become a decent masters mech player (currently in silver) by summer. I mean all mech, all the time, because thats my decided focus. Just AS RULES OF THUMB how many/what kind of factories can each full-capacity base support? And I mean when I get the weirdass cheese that comes at my level of play and everything is out of whack, I've got a stable core structure of where I want to get to as quickly as possible. I've lacked this beforehand when I stuck to rigid build orders, I'd rather have an intuitive feel and deep understanding of the flow of the game and how everything locks together this time around. I'm thinking, off 2 bases: factories 3react/3tech or -1 tech fact for a reactor starport. off 3 bases: add upgrades/2 more fact, or if no upgrades another 4 factories my goal will always be to maintain 3 fully mining bases or get there as soon as possible Do these "rules of thumb" sound ok? Any other advice? | ||
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Ouija
United States129 Posts
Have not been playing starcraft as much as I would like to recently, but for quite a while now I have been playing mech in every single match up whenever I do play. Like yourself I don't use any specific build orders, I just play how I feel and build what I need based upon my scouting information. Since you seem to want to focus more on macro and getting up 3 bases much of your attention should be put into scouting and getting those 3 bases as quickly as you can and only building enough factories to defend what your opponent is capable of throwing at you. Here are just a few things that I have noticed from playing mech. TvZ: Against zerg you will never need to go up to 5/6 factories off 2 bases. Against zerg you can easily throw down your 3rd CC off two factories and add more immediately after. Whether or not you want to spend the money on upgrades on two bases or not an armory will be required fairly quickly though to fend off mutas if the zerg player chooses to make them. More often than not though the zerg will recognize that your are playing mech and instead of going for mutas they will go straight for swarm host. Which in my opinion is a bad move by zerg and allows you to just build tanks, expand, and add additional structures with zero worries. TvT: This match up is very exciting to me and you will see a lot of diversity in builds in the early stages of the game. You will see anything from heavy reaper play to marine/hellion drop to banshee/raven opening and much more rare than it used to be some players with balls of steel will 1 rax fe. I typically like to open with a raven since they can turn the game into your favor very quickly. Keeping air control is crucial in TvT and the raven can swing the viking battles into your favor and also come in handy against marauders as well. Again though, I believe going up to 5/6 factories off 2 bases in TvT is not necessary. 2 factories with a starport is plenty enough to defend from most two base attacks the terran might throw at you. If he is preparing a big attack off two bases though a 3rd factory for safety will not hurt. TvP: Playing mech against protoss is tough to pull off, but much like TvT I find it very exciting to play. Constantly scouting around the map with hellions and scanning from time to time is very crucial IMO when playing against protoss, more than any other match up. This is also the only match up where I think going up to a maximum of 4 factories off 2 bases is necessary based upon your scouting information of course. The only reason being is that as i'm sure you know protoss has some pretty powerful 2 base attacks that will crush you if you don't have the infrastructure you need. If you see a fast 3rd base by the protoss which seems quite common once they realize you are playing mech you won't need to go up to 4 factories unless you want to get aggressive yourself off two bases. Whichever style the protoss chooses to play you will typically see heavy immortal production or instead they will go stargate and go for voids and eventually get some tempest. Against immortals ghosts are your best friend and if you get off 2 good emps on the immortals they will melt to tank fire. Against more heavy air play you can skip ghosts until a bit later and focus more on thor/viking production and they can clean up all protoss air units. Not sure if this is what you wanted but I hope it will help. GL HF Meching!! | ||
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Sitinte
United States499 Posts
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