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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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wptlzkwjd
Canada1240 Posts
On January 17 2014 21:20 Harreh wrote: I have always wondered.. if a MULE runs out of time and is carrying some minerals.. won't the minerals be lost forever? Wouldn't this happen quite a lot throughout a game? Yes, it's why a lot of players tell their mules to stop mining before their last run. | ||
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PinheadXXXXXX
United States897 Posts
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BurningRanger
Germany303 Posts
On January 21 2014 15:34 PinheadXXXXXX wrote: How do you beat lategame protoss armies with tempests incorporated into the composition? It feels like protoss can always force an engagement, but it is very difficult to attack into them because of defensive storms and cannons, so they just slowly siege their way forward to the win. Raven with PDD is the counter to Tempest. Supply-wise you can have 2 Ravens for each Tempest, which means you can basically negate them like forever. Even with Bio (assuming you play that) in lategame you should be able to have 1 or 2 Starports and the gas anyways for some Ravens. While negating Tempest damage in one place with the Ravens, you want to drop/attack in a different spot. If he runs over to defend, you should be able to snipe some of the slower Tempests with your Vikings. | ||
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
On January 20 2014 07:45 Glorfindel! wrote: Was TY going CC first that game aswell? Because in this game when Medivacs were out the drop window were closed. TY does go CC first in that game, but I dont really think this makes a big difference, no Terran build I know of can reliably put on pressure before 9:00 or so. The biggest difference between Reaper FE and CC First is that Reaper FE is going to have less units and/or a weaker economy in exchange for faster tech and better scouting information. When I watch the Creator/Bunny game, I feel like there were lots of vulnerabilities in Creator's defenses. Starting around 10:00 in game, analyze Creator's situation, he's relying solely on chargelot / archon for defense (no storm even started), players are equal on upgrades (+1 attack for Terran vs +1 Armor for Protoss) and there isn't even a robo out on the field yet for Creator. The players are even on supply, so it seems likely (can't confirm) Bunny has a supply advantage in army as well (since Creator should be up in harvesters from his early third nexus + chrono boost). So when Bunny's first Medivacs come out at 10:00, Creator has no AoE and no Observers while Bunny has a superior army and map control. The only thing Creator has to spot for drops are two pylons out on the map below his main. Bunny chooses to immediately try to drop with his first two medivacs, which I think is a mistake; I think it's better to poke at the natural / third with his whole army first to make sure Creator isn't skipping out too much on units and wait for the next pair of medivacs to come into play before going for drops since you really needy 4 medivacs to start multipronged aggression at this stage. As it stands, Bunny's medivacs fly straight over one of Creator's pylons, telling Creator exactly where the drop is coming from and delaying the drop as Bunny takes the time to kill the pylon. Despite his drop being late, the second part of his army still isn't in position to attack the third when the drop occurs, so rather than it being a multipronged attack Creator has to deal with it's two attacks one after another which is a lot easier to deal with. If you look at 12:00 or so you can see Creator now has his army split up into two sections to guard three locations with no way of knowing where Bunny's army is or what it's doing; Bunny has several good options here, he could concentrate his forces and hit one location to kill Creator's army while it's divided or keep trying to pull Creator's army around to get some clean damage done to the third location (5th and 6th medivacs are long finished allowing for Bunny to hit all three locations). Instead, Bunny plays really passively with his army, going for only one drop (which still does quite a bit of damage since Creator has no idea where it's going to hit) and keeping the majority of his army back at home. Creator has lots of vulnerable spots (just watch how Creator's army is moving from 12-13 minutes in the game and you can see how Terran units could be doing damage, the natural and far right of main are almost always undefended). If Bunny has his army out active on the map at this point, Creator can't push across the map because he'd lose too much at home / get stuck in a base trade situation. But he isn't out on the map so Creator pushes across the map and hits a perfect timing (up in upgrades, ghost tech hasn't made it to the field yet, Bunny horribly out of position and floating resources for ~40 seconds before the negagement begins ect). I dont mean to say Bunny played bad by any means, but seriously watch TY, his drops are relentless and he's always looking for / creating holes in his opponent's defenses and dealing as much damage as he can, seperating and concentrating his forces perfectly. Something else I think that would be very effective vs this style is a transition into hellbats after scouting the third nexus, if you know your opponent is going to be relying on lots of chargelots and is going to give you the time to tech to hellbats I think it's worth going for them. Even just 5-10 Hellbats instead of those 10-20 marines in that final battle would have made a huge difference. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
I scout Protoss with my reaper. I know he has a lot of gas and he has no expansion I go in with my reaper to find he has no third pylon -> Proxy However, he chronoboosted stalkers and zealots to my front and as such I do not have another scout out on the map. How do I respond? I feel like you are playing at 1 : 10 odds if you hope to survive the all in when it is proxied on that huge ass map. Is that just pretty much autowin for Protoss then? | ||
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noSec
Brazil37 Posts
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
On January 22 2014 04:33 noSec wrote: Hey guys... Why some mech players don't go for Blueflame em TvZ? Because mech already stomps zerglings, it is a bit redundant. It is mainly good for hellbat drops or 2 fact mass hellion drone roast. You still want blue flame eventually, atleast vs swarm hosts(since locust are light), but it's not a needed upgrade for quite a while. | ||
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HTOMario
United States439 Posts
On January 22 2014 04:33 noSec wrote: Hey guys... Why some mech players don't go for Blueflame em TvZ? It's 150 gas that you could spend on other things. Hellbats are pretty good vs zerglings without the buff and you could use it to get more anti roach, faster upgrades or more anti mutalisks. | ||
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HTOMario
United States439 Posts
On January 21 2014 23:24 SC2Toastie wrote: OK. I've got a question (talking Polar Night TvP here). I scout Protoss with my reaper. I know he has a lot of gas and he has no expansion I go in with my reaper to find he has no third pylon -> Proxy However, he chronoboosted stalkers and zealots to my front and as such I do not have another scout out on the map. How do I respond? I feel like you are playing at 1 : 10 odds if you hope to survive the all in when it is proxied on that huge ass map. Is that just pretty much autowin for Protoss then? Get a bunker in your mineral line and save up energy to scan in case of dt. If one doesn't come scan his base to see what tech he went. Business as normal. You don't need the reaper to hold off the chrono boosted gateway units. Just get a bunker at your ramp in between the 2 supply depos. | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
On January 22 2014 04:33 noSec wrote: Hey guys... Why some mech players don't go for Blueflame em TvZ? It's the way the math works out. They'll two-shot Zerglings regardless. Once they get +3 carapace you'll need +1 mech which you should have already. Once you get +1 you can also start 2 shotting drones. I believe it does make sense to get it versus swarm hosts though. Brings it from 4 shot to 3 shot to kill the locust w/o upgrades on either end. | ||
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Fhiz
361 Posts
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Jazzman88
Canada2228 Posts
On January 22 2014 10:33 Fhiz wrote: How do I deal with some kind of chargelot archon +2/+2 or +3/+3 attack? I feel like by the time I poke they have so many zealots it isnt worth fighting and then it just snowballs out from there, they get so far ahead on upgrades and i feel like archons just cant die, I hear a lot about hellbats and widow mines being effective vs this, is this true and if so like how many is too many? Also say if I have already placed the addons on my raxx 3,4,5 (2 tech labs, 1 reactor) should I lift off and make more reactors? And whenever I try to get a marine based composition I get caught off guard by 2 storms and it is like game over. Are you talking about the 2-base all-in version with 7+ Gateways or the 6-gate pressure to take a third version? If it's a 2-base allin, you literally only need to hold. As soon as you hold, you can start dropping him to death because you traded armies and yours is MUCH more efficient and mobile in smaller numbers. Take your third and go into heavy Marine/Marauder/Medivac while adding Ghosts, and pick him apart. If it's more along the lines of 6 gates to defend any possible midgame timing and pressing while he takes a third, you can use 1-2 drops to multitask him to death. Pick off 3 Probes here, 2 Pylons there, and nab a Forge/Twilight/Templar Archives if he lets you. You're hopefully up to 5 Rax with a third CC on the way, so Bunker up your vulnerable front choke (4 Bunkers should do it if repaired well and split properly behind it) and let building placement fuck with Chargelot AI. There was a really great game by Innovation last year where he faced the all-in version of this and he held easily because he just barely snuck out a couple of Ghosts and placed 3-4 Depots in scattered places in front of his Bunkers, meaning that a-moved Chargelots auto-targeted harmless Depots and targeted Archons got stuck on Zealots while trying to navigate the maze. | ||
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Fhiz
361 Posts
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Fhiz
361 Posts
edit; lets say he got to the tech first due to the nature of mech incorporating more from tech lab'd starport. also does protoss have any reason to chrono warp gate other than they are planning some sort of early warp in attack? | ||
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G-force
Netherlands28 Posts
On January 23 2014 00:42 Fhiz wrote: when playing vs mech and it gets kind of stale like neither of us can attack and it gets to the point of him getting BCs would it be better for me to mass viking or get my own BCs edit; lets say he got to the tech first due to the nature of mech incorporating more from tech lab'd starport. also does protoss have any reason to chrono warp gate other than they are planning some sort of early warp in attack? Hey Fhiz, To answer your question: mass vikings! If you see the ground mech army is too thin to hold mass marines, you can try to run under the BCs and kill them with marines. But if you can't or if his BC count is already too high, getting BCs of your own won't do you very good. He has an upgrade advantage since he went mech, and his BCs will probably have yamato before yours. Just because a meching player has more techlabbed starports, that doesnt mean he naturally has faster access to BCs. In my experience if a meching player gets to BCs before the bio player without being crippled early on, thats a sign the bio player lost the game. Heres why: A mech player's advantage is that he can trade incredibly efficiently in direct fights. In turn he trades all of his gas to get a ground army advantage. This means he is delaying his ability to get things like battlecruisers. The bio player can afford to play a little greedier (assuming the mech player doesnt allin) and use his mobility to snipe unsieged tanks and drop. When your economy advantage kicks in, you need to achieve air dominance. Once you have that, you can easily kill his tanks (by dropping bio on them with medivacs, or by going BCs). So you need to scout how early your opponent invests in BCs (or banshees, or ravens) and try to out-air him. Hope this helps | ||
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Vipermagi
47 Posts
I tried with marine + mine + bunkers but he just added observer and I can do nothing 2) Is there any safe mech build opening vs p? 3) Is mech playable in current meta? | ||
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BEARDiaguz
Australia2362 Posts
If he's 1 base then you can safely fall back up your ramp, get medivacs quickly so you can break out of a possible sentry contain. If you've already started your factory by the time you know it's coming use it for tanks, not mines. Remember to keep the tanks in safe place and micro them to not shoot immortals, but the sentries. Make a lot of bunkers, like 2 more then you think you need. Try not to bunker all around your ramp but a few squares behind it, a canny immortal player will FF and pick off exposed bunkers from the low ground. Once you've got 16 scvs on minerals keep a few on top of the bunkers with auto repair on. Try not to get too many units trapped by FF's. Focus fire the bunkers on the guardian shield sentry first, then the rest. The sentries are top priority, without them he can't kill anything. If you want to try and hold the push at your natural with just bio, you need tons of bunkers and quick reflexes. 2) Not that I'm aware of. 3) Vs Terran definitely. Vs Zerg, quite possibly. Vs Protoss, probably not though some try. | ||
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Talack
Canada2742 Posts
On January 22 2014 10:33 Fhiz wrote: How do I deal with some kind of chargelot archon +2/+2 or +3/+3 attack? I feel like by the time I poke they have so many zealots it isnt worth fighting and then it just snowballs out from there, they get so far ahead on upgrades and i feel like archons just cant die, I hear a lot about hellbats and widow mines being effective vs this, is this true and if so like how many is too many? Also say if I have already placed the addons on my raxx 3,4,5 (2 tech labs, 1 reactor) should I lift off and make more reactors? And whenever I try to get a marine based composition I get caught off guard by 2 storms and it is like game over. If he's lacking in collosus and heavy into zealot add alot more marines to your composition. That combined with ghosts will shred through them with ease. If this is late-late game then start adding like 15-20 ghosts into your army in exchange for marines, that will help out alot vs heavy zealot compositions. | ||
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HTOMario
United States439 Posts
On January 24 2014 05:33 Vipermagi wrote: 2) Is there any safe mech build opening vs p? 3) Is mech playable in current meta? 2) Yeah, 3) Supernova and I seem to think so. | ||
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Dunmer
United Kingdom568 Posts
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