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On January 17 2014 13:38 halpimcat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2014 22:37 SC2Toastie wrote:On January 16 2014 22:09 halpimcat wrote:
In tvt, how do i defend against 888 reaper cheese when going gas first? the reapers come too early for me to deal with with a hellion; I just try putting bunkers wherever i can but I'm not sure that's the correct response. I delay my orbital to afford the bunkers and make it whenever I feel safe enough to do so. Constant marine production, add barracks, use SCVs to help you defend. Pull out of gas too, or take the risk to get hellions out. Do you have a replay where you go gas first? This advice really doesn't say anything other than the obvious, when I need a little bit more nuance. The opponent will have as many or more reapers than I do marines for a significant amount of time; trying to push them back with my marines and scvs just massacres whatever economy I need to survive unless I can guess where he jumps up to get into my base.
Sim city is kind of important too; when you play vs 888 reaper make sure your barracks and first factory are near / in your mineral line (assuming you dont scout / scout late so you dont yet know the reapers are coming) so the reapers cant pick off your units as they come out. Your factory and first marine should start immediately after the barracks finishes (I typically rally my first marine into my mineral line just in case of this build), and the first reaper will hit a little after the first marine finishes; it's extremely important to keep this marine alive by pulling 4+ scvs (you can easily afford this because of how many SCVs your opponent cut) and make sure you are constantly producing Marine and Hellions and not getting supply blocked. Try to squeeze in SCVs as you can.
The worst timing will be just before 3rd marine finishes; at this point, your factory will be complete and your opponent will have 3 reapers (assuming they haven't lost any). Pull up to 6-7 SCVs to survive this crucial timing until your 4th Marine and first Hellion complete.
It's really important in terms of micro to keep SCVs and Hellions ahead to tank damage and then repair them once you drive off the Reapers. Especially in the early stages when the reaper count is low try to pull back hurt / weakened SCVs, if your opponent tries to target them you can usually get a few shots off on the reaper and force him back. It's a lot better at first to keep your units in / around your mineral line until you have a healthy army composition (like ~6 marines and ~3 hellions) because if you push out with your army there's always the risk of your army getting run over by unexpected reinforcements and not being able to get additional SCVs in place to buffer for damage in time OR his reapers running in from an exepected angle and sniping some SCVs / Units as they are produced then getting out without taking damage.
I generally keep 1-2, sometimes 3 workers on gas and slowly tech towards medivacs or banshee (either will probably end the game outright, medivacs are safer overall while banshees are better at limiting your opponent's options). Sorry I don't have a replay but I reliably hold this build off using this method, hope it helps.
edit:
From OP: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=399441¤tpage=5#86
It's a little outdated now and this is intended for holding this build with 12 rax 13 gas, but the Reaper timings and notes on economy still hold true. With gas first vs this you are basically trading some marine production time (~10-15 seconds?) for earlier hellions, which makes the initial 3 reapers you face harder to deal with but subsequent reapers easier to deal with.
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I have always wondered.. if a MULE runs out of time and is carrying some minerals.. won't the minerals be lost forever? Wouldn't this happen quite a lot throughout a game?
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Northern Ireland461 Posts
On January 17 2014 21:20 Harreh wrote:
I have always wondered.. if a MULE runs out of time and is carrying some minerals.. won't the minerals be lost forever? Wouldn't this happen quite a lot throughout a game?
Yes, there was a thread a while ago that showed Bomber manually controlling his MULEs to never lose the minerals they are carrying.
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Anyone know where to find some pro terran replays ? preferably korean ones. I need some inspiration for my race switch, which does not entail being supply blocked 8 minutes out of a 20 minute game.
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Say you've scouted a proxy oracle, would the smart thing to do be to move marines to main and start turret in natural or start 2 turrets right away
edit; after youve throw down an ebay (of course)
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On January 18 2014 10:21 Fhiz wrote:
Say you've scouted a proxy oracle, would the smart thing to do be to move marines to main and start turret in natural or start 2 turrets right away
edit; after youve throw down an ebay (of course)
assuming what build?
1 rax cc? gas after?
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On January 18 2014 10:33 mizU wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2014 10:21 Fhiz wrote:
Say you've scouted a proxy oracle, would the smart thing to do be to move marines to main and start turret in natural or start 2 turrets right away
edit; after youve throw down an ebay (of course) assuming what build? 1 rax cc? gas after?
oops i meant to say reaper FE into 2 rax into standard bio
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On January 18 2014 10:21 Fhiz wrote:
Say you've scouted a proxy oracle, would the smart thing to do be to move marines to main and start turret in natural or start 2 turrets right away
edit; after youve throw down an ebay (of course)
Seems reasonable.
I would also delay maynarding workers over to the natural.
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On January 18 2014 11:09 Fhiz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2014 10:33 mizU wrote:On January 18 2014 10:21 Fhiz wrote:
Say you've scouted a proxy oracle, would the smart thing to do be to move marines to main and start turret in natural or start 2 turrets right away
edit; after youve throw down an ebay (of course) assuming what build? 1 rax cc? gas after? oops i meant to say reaper FE into 2 rax into standard bio
Really depends on what variation of Proxy Oracle you're playing vs and how optimal you want your response to be. If it's the second pylon proxied stargate before MsC, Stalker or WG variation, then you need a turret in the main at minimum (Evacuate SCVs from natural) since the oracle will hit before you have 6 marines. Assuming you have crisp timings on your reaper, reactor and marine production, you should have 6 marines in time to deal with any other variation of proxy oracle, and theoretically could hold without any turrets at all by pulling scvs to main and camping at main until you have 12 marines to split between your main and natural (assuming your opponent makes only 1 oracle).
In practice, I always make 2 turrets when I scout proxy oracle because it's just a lot safer, you wont end up playing the 'how many oracles will my opponent make' guessing game and you'll be able to bunker up your natural earlier and safer vs any sort of stalker poke or 3/4 gate follow up. I also feel like you'll need the turrets eventually anyway (since it's extremely difficult to kill an Oracle vs an opponent with decent control, they move faster even than a stimmed marine, and if it's camping around your base it will destroy a mineral line as soon as you move out).
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On January 16 2014 22:09 halpimcat wrote:
In tvt, how do i defend against 888 reaper cheese when going gas first? the reapers come too early for me to deal with with a hellion; I just try putting bunkers wherever i can but I'm not sure that's the correct response. I delay my orbital to afford the bunkers and make it whenever I feel safe enough to do so.
gas first into helion is the counter to reaper rush, just use scvs vs the initial reaper, you will lose some but that is okay since the reaper rush is extremely all-in
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On January 16 2014 08:30 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2014 08:29 Jer99 wrote:On January 16 2014 07:51 SC2Toastie wrote:
I cannot for the life of me win ANY game on Daedalus. I don't want to veto it yet, there HAS to be some way to get the natural up safely AND transition into a strong mid-lategame, even though the map is as open as can possibly be and the bases are terribly hard to secure.
What do you guys do on Daedalus?!
Any Zerg all in seems like an auto-win, and if they don't all in, it still feels like every aspect of the map is Zerg favored?! Veto it is all I can say It has to be doable if it is being kept in the WCS pool. Is Blizzard THAT blind..?
I have had overwhelming success on this map doing heavy 2fac blue flame hellion pressure while expanding (4:30 second fac, 5:40 cc on highground, ~7:30 min bf). The ramps are so overly large that the zerg can't zone the hellions well enough to prevent any damage. Even if he makes a regular amount of roaches you usually have too many hellions (he can't kill them in time before you killed all his drones). Don't overcommit and try to build defensive structures while you kill his worker line as that often triggers a counterallin (only if he made roaches though, otherwise he should be dead by now). Tip: if you micro perfectly, you can kill an infinite amount of roaches even with hellions since they have more range and a faster attack animation. Behind your permanent stream of hellions you should go mech to have a tech advantage if your pressure doesn't do enough (again, this should only be the case when he made mass roaches in which case he has no money to transition into mutas). I have tried going bio on this map only to realize that it doesn't really work.
Note: As with a lot of hellion centric builds, this gets slightly countered by roach rushes, although you can still outmicro them if you're spot on with your control.
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I'm thinking about starting to play again, are tanks viable in diamond+ play in TvZ these days or is it still widowmine galore?
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On January 19 2014 04:38 Razac wrote:
I'm thinking about starting to play again, are tanks viable in diamond+ play in TvZ these days or is it still widowmine galore?
Most pros consider Bio-Mine objectively better than Marine/Medivac/Tank, due to the speed and versatility of Mutalisks combined with the ease of remaxing on lots of Zergling/Baneling after a first battle is traded fairly evenly on the edge of creep. Bio-Mine with Marauder support to draw Baneling hits is more mobile, deals with more composition switches, and allows the Terran to sink more money into expansions and the eventual incorporation of Ravens.
Mech is coming into a limited sort of fashion amongst some pros, with players like Flash and Reality using (and winning with) mech in high-level competition recently. The general format of that sort of mech tends to be Hellion/Banshee pressure into 3 bases and double upgrades with lots of Tank/Hellbat, sprinkling in Thors and Widow Mines if Mutalisks make an appearance, the ultimate goal either being crushing a Lair-tech Zerg or transitioning ultimately to a massive Raven fleet.
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Thanks Jazzman for the answer <3
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TheDwf is playing in nation wars right now vs bischu btw
gogoogog buddy!
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Just watched Pro League TvP between Bunny and Creator.
Bunny went CC first and Creator went for 3 Nexuses from one gateway.
Bunny got his scout denied and was not aware instantly that Creator took a fast third. However he was still out with a decent force that he pulled out from 3 Baracks but had no window to do damage what so ever.
As a Terran if you scout this really fast third when you are going CC first - what is a good reaction to fall back on?
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On January 19 2014 19:18 Glorfindel! wrote:
Just watched Pro League TvP between Bunny and Creator.
Bunny went CC first and Creator went for 3 Nexuses from one gateway.
Bunny got his scout denied and was not aware instantly that Creator took a fast third. However he was still out with a decent force that he pulled out from 3 Baracks but had no window to do damage what so ever.
As a Terran if you scout this really fast third when you are going CC first - what is a good reaction to fall back on?
F10 + n
MASSIVE agression or MASSIVE greed is what I'd say. You run pretty big risks either way
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On January 19 2014 19:18 Glorfindel! wrote:
Just watched Pro League TvP between Bunny and Creator.
Bunny went CC first and Creator went for 3 Nexuses from one gateway.
Bunny got his scout denied and was not aware instantly that Creator took a fast third. However he was still out with a decent force that he pulled out from 3 Baracks but had no window to do damage what so ever.
As a Terran if you scout this really fast third when you are going CC first - what is a good reaction to fall back on?
TY vs sOs from Round 1 Week 2 of proleague is a pretty good example of dealing with a fast third from Protoss, just drop like crazy while macro'ing like normal since Protoss will have a hard time spreading his units out to deal with everything properly. It's also going to force him to delay tech because he's going to need to make units to deal with the drops everywhere, if Protoss takes a quick third Photon Overcharge can't protect him in the same way.
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On January 20 2014 01:29 Pursuit_ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2014 19:18 Glorfindel! wrote:
Just watched Pro League TvP between Bunny and Creator.
Bunny went CC first and Creator went for 3 Nexuses from one gateway.
Bunny got his scout denied and was not aware instantly that Creator took a fast third. However he was still out with a decent force that he pulled out from 3 Baracks but had no window to do damage what so ever.
As a Terran if you scout this really fast third when you are going CC first - what is a good reaction to fall back on? TY vs sOs from Round 1 Week 2 of proleague is a pretty good example of dealing with a fast third from Protoss, just drop like crazy while macro'ing like normal since Protoss will have a hard time spreading his units out to deal with everything properly. It's also going to force him to delay tech because he's going to need to make units to deal with the drops everywhere, if Protoss takes a quick third Photon Overcharge can't protect him in the same way.
Was TY going CC first that game aswell?
Because in this game when Medivacs were out the drop window were closed.
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EPT
He is beast
