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On August 13 2013 10:28 krooked wrote:
Finally back from band camp..
So recently I've been struggling extremely much in general. Couple of days ago I had close to 80%WR in TvT and it was clearly my best match up. Now I'm only facing cloakshee into 1:1:1 all in. And I lose to it every time. I do the LG-IM build or w/e its called, rax 12 gas 15 marine marine reactor > expo > factory swap > starport > hellions and well I ALMOST got one guy where I split my army and bum-rushed him from two sides, but I had to use scvs and his second push was too strong. How do I stop it?
TvP: I have no idea what to do. I die to the MSC/stalker/zealot poke a lot when I go cc first, so thats out of the window. I tried to just macro up (had a post about my plan couple of days ago) but it doesn't work at all tbh. I've tried the 1rax exp into mine drop, I've tried 1rax exp into marine mine push (and then drop). The build I've used the most is 1rax exp, 3rax fact starport then push with medivacs but I end up behind no matter what happens (I trade, I back off etc).. I have no idea what build I should do, I just die later anyways and can never get ahead.
TvZ: CC first with scout after 1st suppdep is done. Works great against 6pool but I struggle against all kinds of roach/bane "all in". I've been doing reaper expo into hellions for the contain, it works a little better but I'm struggling mid/lategame. Basically, I go 4M and everything is well until he gets ultras. I never make enough marauders in time. So even though I've cleared out his main and 2expos while I have a huge economy, he just crushed my army - and then gets into my base at which point I'm just dead.
Would love some feedback, I'm a little bit lost atm..
edit: I'm dia btw
TvT : They are many ways to defend the push with the 15 gas opener. First make sure you don't take alot of damages from the banshee (don't loose your marines!) You want to catch him with your hellions in the middle of the map, decreasing his marine count, making him siege thus delaying the push while at home, you get a banshee + 1 tank and a bunker. The tank will stop his marines from advancing, the bunker will protect the tank and the banshee will destroy the opponent tank. I've even played some guy who countered this push while going cc first by just catching me on the middle of the map unsieged with mass marines with combat shields (and some scvs pulled, bot not too many).
TvP : Just delay your 3rd rax and get a bunker up to not die to the mscore poke. I must admit i've lost hope in this match-up, I've been going for proxy factory and got quite good results with it (something winning the game directly, sometimes doing some valuable damages, I always get AT LEAST 3 probes, even if the toss scouted the factory in his main) I just follow-up with an expand, tech to medivacs, go up to 5 rax on two bases and pressure the fuck out of him while getting my 3rd.
TvZ : I go Innovation 3CC with proper scouting and adaptation. I would advice you to scout after you throw down your gas, 6pool isn't common on ladder and you can still defend it with proper cc placement in the wall (Polt vs Suppy, WCS AM Akilon Wastes). When he gets ultra, you need to start dropping everywhere. Just don't stop dropping so he can't really leave his side of the map. You need to keep him pressured so you can mass some marauders. Also, you must keep making widow mines, they are needed to deal with the banelings supporting the ultras. What I do is when I add some more rax when I'm on 3 bases (I go from 8 to 10-12 rax depending on my eco), I add techlabs on them, so they are ready for the ultra switch. I find 5rax techlabs is optimal but 3-4 is enough.
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1 rax FEs are becoming popular again in TvP because it allows you to get a real quick 3rd without any real tech. Well, I shouldn't say it allows you to but it gives you the option to if you so choose to take it. Always SCV scout, this will inform you if you need to make a bunker or not. Personally I like the safety of what reaper expos give. This at least lets you stay alive past the 5 min mark. From there it's hard to say. If you ask 10 people you will get 10 different responses as what is the best way to play out tvp in the mid to late game.
If you have been watching ForGGs stream it seems as though people have figured out how to beat ForGGs TvT build: gas first cloak banshee. It hits well before viking is out. He eventually gets a raven out but everything is already dead.
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Any good bio builds and openings for TvT? I usually mech, but need to vary it up a bit - especially on maps with huge surface areas that make it hard to defend bases. I tried using some really old bio or bio/tank builds from WoL, but the tank and banshee buff combined with the current metagame of 111'ing becoming quite common make my old builds shit.
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I like to do the 2 rax reaper fe into Bio Play depending on the map ... Obviously not on whirlwind... works best on starstation ( Wide open space good for splitting bio and good for Reapers) Less effective on Neo planet S but still viable ( Central defensive location and small map in general )
I like to play to the map more with my styles than to actually just go one build for every map. Akilon wastes is kind of hard to fight mech on if they take their third and 4th on the "Ez Sauce" Defensive location instead of the ez pz drop side. So I dont like to coin flip that but I go marine tank because you can abuse mobility on that map as we saw with Demuslim vs Alive.
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On August 13 2013 23:21 Pirfiktshon wrote:
I like to do the 2 rax reaper fe into Bio Play depending on the map ... Obviously not on whirlwind... works best on starstation ( Wide open space good for splitting bio and good for Reapers) Less effective on Neo planet S but still viable ( Central defensive location and small map in general )
I like to play to the map more with my styles than to actually just go one build for every map. Akilon wastes is kind of hard to fight mech on if they take their third and 4th on the "Ez Sauce" Defensive location instead of the ez pz drop side. So I dont like to coin flip that but I go marine tank because you can abuse mobility on that map as we saw with Demuslim vs Alive.
Replay?
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I'm at work right now I'll post rep when I get home tonight at 8 PM EST
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I have a total noob question and need a little guidance on build orders and openers. Back in WoL I learned to play the game through Filtersc's videos. I used the 1 rax FE for every matchup and simply played MMM no matter the matchup. 1 rax fe was simple enough that you could practice it maybe 10 times and have it down cold. However, now using the 1 rax fe for each matchup is a recipe to lose most games. Furthermore, I want to play more than just MMM in a matchup.
My problem comes in learning an opener and build order for each matchup. I have trouble remembering when what should go down and when I should start upgrade X or add on Y. I have each written down. Is it simply just a matter of practicing against the AI a ton of times? Is there a custom/arcade map I can use to just reset the game at any point?
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On August 14 2013 00:07 ILosethenOP wrote:
I have a total noob question and need a little guidance on build orders and openers. Back in WoL I learned to play the game through Filtersc's videos. I used the 1 rax FE for every matchup and simply played MMM no matter the matchup. 1 rax fe was simple enough that you could practice it maybe 10 times and have it down cold. However, now using the 1 rax fe for each matchup is a recipe to lose most games. Furthermore, I want to play more than just MMM in a matchup.
My problem comes in learning an opener and build order for each matchup. I have trouble remembering when what should go down and when I should start upgrade X or add on Y. I have each written down. Is it simply just a matter of practicing against the AI a ton of times? Is there a custom/arcade map I can use to just reset the game at any point?
Yes, it's entirely practice. Just like how you're taught in school with repetition, until its permanently etched into your brain. Check the arcade for a map called "HotS BOT," which has some neat features for learning build orders, ontop of having a reset function.
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On August 14 2013 00:31 rd wrote:
[
Yes, it's entirely practice. Just like how you're taught in school with repetition, until its permanently etched into your brain. Check the arcade for a map called "HotS BOT," which has some neat features for learning build orders, ontop of having a reset function.
Thanks! I was pretty sure that was the answer but was hoping for some kind of short cuts. Looks like me and HotS BOT will be come best of friends.
On a side note what openers would you recommend for a gold/platinum level player? I currently use:
TvZ - Innovation's 3CC Reactor Hellion into Bio Mine (the econ off this is astounding and my money piles up HARD)
TvP - Demuslim Reaper FE
TvT - ForGG Opener
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On August 14 2013 00:40 ILosethenOP wrote:
Thanks! I was pretty sure that was the answer but was hoping for some kind of short cuts. Looks like me and HotS BOT will be come best of friends.
On a side note what openers would you recommend for a gold/platinum level player? I currently use:
TvZ - Innovation's 3CC Reactor Hellion into Bio Mine (the econ off this is astounding and my money piles up HARD)
TvP - Demuslim Reaper FE
TvT - ForGG Opener
These are exactly the builds I use as top plat.
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tvp i suggest fast expo to 2-3 racks.. if he expands, get your 3rd your own asap! (Before gas, before 3rd racks)
tvt i suggest 12 racks 15 gas, cc inside your base.
tvt is safe build
tvp is kinda greedy, but you have to be greedy vs p in order to win lategame hehehe
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3 cc before gas? LOL How well does this fare against hte 11:30 timing of Chargelot Archon 2-2 push?
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On August 14 2013 04:41 Pirfiktshon wrote:
3 cc before gas? LOL How well does this fare against hte 11:30 timing of Chargelot Archon 2-2 push?
I'm top masters,
I played against it 2 times only.....
first i crushed him on drops before he hit..... second game he didn't see my 3rd, came straight to natural, hit him on choke between racks/cc with mass marine ghost medivac, it was easy.....
just test it yourself..... i think a issue is if he commits to immortal sentry after expo, or fake expoes.....
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Fair enough Could you possibly post a rep of this so I can look at it when I get home 
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Lately i really get frustrated with a special TvZ build
I open reaper expansion into hellion push, but in some cases, even if my attack does a lot of eco damage, i lose the game.
I scout baneling nest and roach warren on two base (his) and put up a though defense wall with an eye on his third.
There are some roach/bane in front of my base (two base roach/bling?) and if he scouts my wall in, they just besiege me, or otherwise just busts me. If he doesn't attack, he hatches at least 60 supply of +2 mutas and take a third behind, while i struggle to get my third.
I came to the conclusion that i could go for bio with some thors mixed in blindly, but that's not how starcraft should be played.
Any ideas or fellow sufferers?
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On August 14 2013 05:25 Striker.superfreunde wrote:
Lately i really get frustrated with a special TvZ build
I open reaper expansion into hellion push, but in some cases, even if my attack does a lot of eco damage, i lose the game.
I scout baneling nest and roach warren on two base (his) and put up a though defense wall with an eye on his third.
There are some roach/bane in front of my base (two base roach/bling?) and if he scouts my wall in, they just besiege me, or otherwise just busts me. If he doesn't attack, he hatches at least 60 supply of +2 mutas and take a third behind, while i struggle to get my third.
I came to the conclusion that i could go for bio with some thors mixed in blindly, but that's not how starcraft should be played.
Any ideas or fellow sufferers?
So you're scouting and seeing the roach and bane? Why not then transition into WM to defend while working to bust out? What it sounds like is that he works to take map control, and your first goal then would be to re-take map control. I'd say marauder emphasis with concussive shell and stim to play give and take with the roaches and banes until you can get open, and then push him back a little bit with WM working behind and with you to keep Mutas under control.
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Can you post a replay? If he's actually going for a roach bling bust off 2base, there's no way he can stockpile enough gas or time for a flock of mutas, and +2 air at that, right after. You're either exaggerating or you're waiting too long to push out
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On August 14 2013 05:25 Striker.superfreunde wrote:
Lately i really get frustrated with a special TvZ build
I open reaper expansion into hellion push, but in some cases, even if my attack does a lot of eco damage, i lose the game.
I scout baneling nest and roach warren on two base (his) and put up a though defense wall with an eye on his third.
There are some roach/bane in front of my base (two base roach/bling?) and if he scouts my wall in, they just besiege me, or otherwise just busts me. If he doesn't attack, he hatches at least 60 supply of +2 mutas and take a third behind, while i struggle to get my third.
I came to the conclusion that i could go for bio with some thors mixed in blindly, but that's not how starcraft should be played.
Any ideas or fellow sufferers?
Reaper/hellion openings delay your economy a lot, so killing a handful of drones doesn't put you ahead. You need to do a ton of damage or the zerg can just make 10 drones off one inject cycle and then go back to whatever build he was doing. Use the scouting and map control you get to anticipate the counterattack. Transition to tanks/walls/mines/bunkers if you suspect a roach/bling attack.
As for the mutas, you let your opponent stockpile thousands of gas, and somehow managed to not scout the spire while it researched two upgrades. What were you doing the whole time?
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On August 14 2013 00:31 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 00:07 ILosethenOP wrote:
I have a total noob question and need a little guidance on build orders and openers. Back in WoL I learned to play the game through Filtersc's videos. I used the 1 rax FE for every matchup and simply played MMM no matter the matchup. 1 rax fe was simple enough that you could practice it maybe 10 times and have it down cold. However, now using the 1 rax fe for each matchup is a recipe to lose most games. Furthermore, I want to play more than just MMM in a matchup.
My problem comes in learning an opener and build order for each matchup. I have trouble remembering when what should go down and when I should start upgrade X or add on Y. I have each written down. Is it simply just a matter of practicing against the AI a ton of times? Is there a custom/arcade map I can use to just reset the game at any point? Yes, it's entirely practice. Just like how you're taught in school with repetition, until its permanently etched into your brain. Check the arcade for a map called "HotS BOT," which has some neat features for learning build orders, ontop of having a reset function.
That's awesome too... I have been having the same problem! TY!
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@ Matta, bromalon, whatson
Thank you so far. I will upload replays tomorrow evening.
Window mines + bio is hard to execute for me. But i'm on it and try to involve more of them lately (again). Just step by step.
As i'm not very confident in wm, i'm afraid a marauder heavy play style lacks in anti air.
As soon as i scout spire/mutas, i get down turrets, wm (occasionally), increase marine production and try to keep harressment (drops) going on.
I see i can't avoid wm any longer, so a few questions ahead. On two base, i guess i should have ~ 4 - 6 rax, 1 starport+reactor and one fac + reactor? Maybe even one fac + techlab? And whats the right answer to mass mutas then?
If it all comes down to proper wm usage, there is a long road to go for a casual like me
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EPT
