On March 07 2013 07:20 ElMeanYo wrote: I'm a little concerned about Swarm Hosts actually. While watching IEM, GTSL and King of the Beta I haven't seen many high level wins were Hosts were key in the victory.
Either the Zerg commits to Hosts and loses horribly, or they add Hosts only after the game is basically won, where they represent nothing more than Zergy victory cigars.
It seems the main problem with them is their immobility... Zergs just die if they commit to Hosts because they get trapped somewhere with them, the opposing army goes around them, or they can't deal with counterattacks back at home. It seems Hosts were made to use Nydus but Nydus have their own problems that prevent them from being cost-effective. I think the exception was Ret in IEM who barely eked out wins by covering them effectively with hydras.
You can say that Zergs need more time with them to learn how to use them effectively... its to early to tell, etc etc. But I can't help but feel that they are not quite where they need to be and that Blizz will eventually give them a buff.
to be honest the zergs are failing at using them effectively.
The king of the beta tournament for example of TLO, TLO went all in swarmhost pretty much which imo isn't that great. Going hydra/swarmhost/corruptor is a lot stronger then going pure swarmhost/queen/nydus. I don't think the way TLO uses them is very good if the protoss knows how to deal with nydus and goes mass colossi/templar like grubby did in their third game.
For IEM, snute again failed pretty badly at using swarmhosts and allowed them to be caught out of position or he wouldn't retreat with them. When you let loose a wave of locusts, the protoss army is starting to push up you don't keep swarmhosts burrowed, you unburrow and back off. He just let them stay there so they ended up dying when they shouldn't have.
I haven't seen any GSTL with swarmhost usage so I can't comment on this one T_T.
swarm hosts seem really micro intensive to me. they're not at their best when you just plop them down and let them do their thing - 'static offense' if you will. sure there's the big nydus queen swarm host slow push that catz and others do pretty well, but they're really strong when theyre moving around, providing map awareness and limiting the opponent's movement options. it's slow-motion zerg shadowboxing.
edit: also, i think a tricky part of swarm hosts is knowing when to start getting them, and especially to know when to start transitioning out into producing some other mix of units. HotS has a lot more stopgaps for transitioning for zerg so i think it's a matter of time, experimentation, and refinement to find out stuff like 'oh around x time in this build i can start pumping speed hydras/vipers/super ultras/etc etc to move into a differently-proportioned unit composition.'
On March 07 2013 07:20 ElMeanYo wrote: I'm a little concerned about Swarm Hosts actually. While watching IEM, GTSL and King of the Beta I haven't seen many high level wins were Hosts were key in the victory.
Either the Zerg commits to Hosts and loses horribly, or they add Hosts only after the game is basically won, where they represent nothing more than Zergy victory cigars.
It seems the main problem with them is their immobility... Zergs just die if they commit to Hosts because they get trapped somewhere with them, the opposing army goes around them, or they can't deal with counterattacks back at home. It seems Hosts were made to use Nydus but Nydus have their own problems that prevent them from being cost-effective. I think the exception was Ret in IEM who barely eked out wins by covering them effectively with hydras.
You can say that Zergs need more time with them to learn how to use them effectively... its to early to tell, etc etc. But I can't help but feel that they are not quite where they need to be and that Blizz will eventually give them a buff.
Actually people are arguing that they will be too strong when pros perfect the timings and Swarm Host play. I loved that Vibe vs. Illusion game, he was constantly zoning out Illusion, and his Swarm Hosts were never in a trouble.
Swarm Hosts aren't that easy to use like Roaches are, I am pretty sure that we will see wonderful Swarm Host play in a few months or so. I've already see some.
Another category was added - about Hydralisks, Roaches and Swarm Hosts in ZvZ
Hydralisks, Roaches & Swarm Hosts can make a new trend in ZvZ. As we can see in this match Stephano vs Goswser, Swarm Hosts may be better than Infestors. They are cheaper at vespene, and you don't need a lot of them (SH), just to support your Hydralisks & Roaches and pressure enemy bases. This unit combination also may be strong against Zergs who went Mutalisks. Spores were buffed, Hydralisks can run faster off-creep, and Mutalisks can't do much to Swarm Hosts due to Hydralisks nearby.
Plus some more games demonstrating turtle-style from Stephano. You can find them at the end of "Turtle Zerg" category right after three Day[9]'s videos.
Fixed some information about DPS and links to Day[9] videos. Don't forget to add nice games, videos, replays and VODs with nice Swarm Host usage. Post them here in comments.
On June 25 2013 06:43 blade55555 wrote: Out of curiosity why didn't you just make a new thread when you pretty much redid everything? Feel like it would have gotten more exposure.
Nice write up swarmhosts so good
Don't want to clone thread. Asked for thread rename, so it will feel as a new thread in community
but why i am still not convinced on using them other than for 2 base nydus cheeses: having to babysit and create an army focused around them to be effective goes against zergs nature of attacking and remaxing with units because with this you are more likely turtling or containing. i feel its not being used as blizzard had intended (not that this is our fault) because the unit in whole is still pretty shitty.
i really wish i could like swarmhosts. maybe im bitter about the fact that command and conquer guys Blizzard devs keep forcing us to use units like reapers and not bring back classic SC units like lurkers.
Probably one of highest DPS which Zerg can reach - Hydralisks and Locusts. They have lower health amount, but on other side - half of army is renewable again and again, so this meatshield with Locusts can cover Hydralisks greatly.
Hydralisks can snipe Vikings (vs Vipers) and Medivacs (which healing bio)
Some hydralisks at base can snipe Medivacs and drops very quickly with spores. Plus Hydras are enoughly fast to follow Medivac-drops and enoughly DPSy to snipe them and dropped Marines
Nydus Worm at each base fully compensates immobility of Swarm Hosts. With nyduses you can fight with drops even with swarm hosts or other slow units except zerglings
Always relocate them, get more queens as healers and anti-observer snipers. Queens have biggest anti-air weapon range of all zerg units (7 AA-range for Queens against 6 for Hydras and 6 for Corruptors).
If you see danger, like Protoss killed your locusts too fast, or trying to catch you with Blink stalkers, then you can retreat via Nydus Worm and heal it with queens to make Worm live a bit longer untill you retreat with all your Swarm Hosts
Fungals can stun any strong combination of units, including hydralisk-roach, which can do nothing against incoming locust waves. Fungals also allows you to hold enemy units untill you get new wave of Locusts.
Spine Crawlers and Spores can heavily defend Swarm Hosts from speedling / speedroach / muta runbys
spread Swarm Hosts so they can't be easily revealed with single fungal
try to make small amount of mutas or corruptors to snipe overseers. SH+Corruptor is as strong, as in ZvP
in long SH vs SH battles in ZvZ use Abduct on enemy Swarm Hosts. It will allow your Locusts to snipe enemy Swarm Hosts. Remember that Abduct unburrows enemy unit.
Abduct enemy Infestors and Overseers into your Spines and Spores, so you will pay energy for killing important enemy units
Try to use small amount of banes (4 and more) to open path for your Locusts to enemy Swarm Hosts, especially abducted ones.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XPE95GG.png)
