On February 22 2013 07:21 Crowley. wrote: Asking people who have watched and played more HoTS than me (I am top 8 masters in both games but I haven't really played much HoTS especially with new units, or watched a lot of pro streams because no good Zergs actually stream): is ling/corruptor or roach/hydra better support for swam host in ZvP?
Ummmm. TLO? If you're trying to learn how to use SH and you're not trying to learn from him you're doing it wrong.
On February 22 2013 06:38 Kaleidos wrote: Small but usefull tip that i didn't find in the OP.
When you siege your swarm hosts, there are those situations where you click so fast that they don't actually borrow (but walk to their dead). Solution: Do not use right click to issue the rally command, but use the rally hotkey of swarm hosts. Yup, go check, there is one in the command card!
Woah, really useful tip. I will add it to HOTS tips and here too
And to that effect, I would recommend rebinding the key to something non-terrible, such as 'e' (the default rally hotkey is 'y' I think).
On February 22 2013 06:38 Kaleidos wrote: Small but usefull tip that i didn't find in the OP.
When you siege your swarm hosts, there are those situations where you click so fast that they don't actually borrow (but walk to their dead). Solution: Do not use right click to issue the rally command, but use the rally hotkey of swarm hosts. Yup, go check, there is one in the command card!
Woah, really useful tip. I will add it to HOTS tips and here too
And to that effect, I would recommend rebinding the key to something non-terrible, such as 'e' (the default rally hotkey is 'y' I think).
I have Grid hotkey scheme so it's not a problem for me. But I will add that suggestion too
On February 22 2013 07:21 Crowley. wrote: Asking people who have watched and played more HoTS than me (I am top 8 masters in both games but I haven't really played much HoTS especially with new units, or watched a lot of pro streams because no good Zergs actually stream): is ling/corruptor or roach/hydra better support for swam host in ZvP?
Hydra/swarmhost/corruptor is very powerful. I would do that composition (with some lings but not to many). It also can take on a voidray/templar/chargelot army in a straight up fight and win as well.
what blade said, plus I also think hydra/swarmhost/viper/queens are pretty great too~
remember that creep makes a huge difference for locusts, so get that creep spread! (helps hydras too, even if hydras have speed upgrade, they're still noticeably faster on creep. obviously helps queens/mushrooms a lot too)
have a couple uprooted spores follow around your army for mobile viper consume (again, creep)
One mistake many Zergs make with consume is to have multiple Zipers using consume on a single building. If you consume 1 building per Viper all the buildings are regenerating simultaneously. So if you use 3 vipers make 3 evos somewhere on the map.
Also as Zelniq pointed out Spores/Spines are less efficient cost wise but are mobile. So having a couple of them follow your army around can be very useful. Especially if you can only afford to have <3 vipers in your force. (use an overlord to keep them rooted when possible to help with regen and to make them support your army).
One mistake many Zergs make with consume is to have multiple Zipers using consume on a single building. If you consume 1 building per Viper all the buildings are regenerating simultaneously. So if you use 3 vipers make 3 evos somewhere on the map
Already listed in HOTS Tips thread with picture explanation and numbers
i'm aware, but those buildings don't move. besides, spores arent the worst thing ever, they're fairly cheap and worth 2 full consumes
If you have a lot consumes, so yes, spores/spines can be good. But Evo chambers and extractors are cheaper, than spines/spores.
the regen difference is negligible though. the regen is just so slow it doesn't mean that much. but you may as well cast it on other buildings if you can, sure.
On February 22 2013 10:51 Zelniq wrote: the regen difference is negligible though. the regen is just so slow it doesn't mean that much. but you may as well cast it on other buildings if you can, sure.
Yeah, regeneration is really small and we have transfuses. I've just listed another small reason why it's better to consume different buildings and try consume buildings which have more health.
One mistake many Zergs make with consume is to have multiple Zipers using consume on a single building. If you consume 1 building per Viper all the buildings are regenerating simultaneously. So if you use 3 vipers make 3 evos somewhere on the map
Already listed in HOTS Tips thread with picture explanation and numbers
In that page you linked you basically say consuming crawlers is just bad. Yes a evo or extractor is better when possible. But I think its going to far to say that having 1-3 spores following your army for consumes mid battle is not a valid tactic just because its not your personal play-style.
The nearest accessible gas or evo chamber can in many situations be nowhere near the fight. Having a couple of crawlers trailing your army gives you immediate access to consume without having to retreat your Vipers. The extra 3 Blinding clouds that 3 crawlers could give 3 vipers in 1min has the potential to let you continue to push into a Terran. The timing on this is about the same as a round of reinforcements too. The trick when using this concept would be to only use it when you really think it will help with the next push/defense, and to fly back for more economic evos/gasses in all other situations.
In that page you linked you basically say consuming crawlers is just bad. Yes a evo or extractor is better when possible. But I think its going to far to say that having 1-3 spores following your army for consumes mid battle is not a valid tactic just because its not your personal play-style.
Yeah, it depends on your play style, but if you want a lot of Consumes, it's time to send 3-4 drones and start make evo-chambers somewhere in the middle part of map. Plus spines/spores are better to leave on your expansions to defend them against better drops (widows, speedivac drops, etc)
I have to post this here, If people didn't see this game already. Vibe showcasing great usage of Swarm Hosts again Illusion. Of course, Illusion could've done a better job at dropping and defending, but damn, it was great game showing the power of well-controlled Swarm Hosts.
I'm a little concerned about Swarm Hosts actually. While watching IEM, GTSL and King of the Beta I haven't seen many high level wins were Hosts were key in the victory.
Either the Zerg commits to Hosts and loses horribly, or they add Hosts only after the game is basically won, where they represent nothing more than Zergy victory cigars.
It seems the main problem with them is their immobility... Zergs just die if they commit to Hosts because they get trapped somewhere with them, the opposing army goes around them, or they can't deal with counterattacks back at home. It seems Hosts were made to use Nydus but Nydus have their own problems that prevent them from being cost-effective. I think the exception was Ret in IEM who barely eked out wins by covering them effectively with hydras.
You can say that Zergs need more time with them to learn how to use them effectively... its to early to tell, etc etc. But I can't help but feel that they are not quite where they need to be and that Blizz will eventually give them a buff.
I thought Ret used them in a really effective manner against his protoss opponents at IEM. TLO will be playing later today, I'm betting that he will use them too.
Zergs will definitely need more time to use them more effectively, because if you think about it, the swarm host brings a type of gameplay that is completely new to Starcraft. Its also a type of gameplay that's very positional, where you need to predict your opponents moves but its also very unforgiving.
The closest style we have to it is probably terran mech, and to this day most terran players still aren't comfortable playing mech. Especially korean terrans would just rather micro their marines all day instead of trying to play this thinking mans style. But every now and then you get amazing players like MVP showing that hey, this unit comp is actually amazing as long as you have the game sense to use it to perfection.
EPT
