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On December 12 2012 16:09 FabledIntegral wrote:
Masters is an entire skillset in itself.
I can go pure reaper and beat pretty much any low masters in TvZ, TvT, or TvP.
I can do similar ridiculous strategies ZvX and PvX. Vs a low masters, I can completely dick around and throw units around at whim.
I'm not a GM either, just high masters.
There's a large skill gap between high masters and low masters. A very small skill gap between high masters (rank 1-3) and low GM (100-200). Once you eclipse 100 GM, there is once again a large skill gap.
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On December 12 2012 17:27 Defenestrator wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 16:03 Rickyvalle21 wrote:
The difference between a low master and a high master is about just as big as bronze to diamond. A low master literally has no chance vs a high master. With that being said if it took you 1 year to get from bronze to master then it will probably take you another year to get from master to gm. I don't think this is true at all. A diamond player can beat a bronze or even silver (possibly gold) player only using their mouse. I seriously doubt any non-pro could beat a low masters like that, and even then it would be very challenging. I think there's a difference in all areas, but the main difference is in unit control and multitask.
Look up lastshadow mouse only. He beats a masters with his mouse.
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There's really a massive knowledge difference between masters and gm. Most low-mid masters players really have a superficial (at best) understanding of the matchups and of the purpose of their builds, and how to react in various situations.
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Winning at a high level is primarily about:
(1) Efficient build orders down to the timing on every last unit and building, including great detail in all possible branches and responses,
(2) Executing that build order cleanly for maximum supply and crisp timing attacks, and
(3) Unit control and getting maximum efficiency in your engagements.
Players have different strengths and weaknesses, but the combination of skills that a GM brings to the table is going to be better than what a high Masters player offers.
For example, I'm a high Masters player and I know exactly what's holding me back. I'm slow on the keyboard and innacurate with my mouse, I don't use camera hotkeys which slows me down further, I have poor micro including bad forcefielding instincts, no ability to micro a warp prism, pathetic blink micro, and merely passable multi-tasking. I also tend to rush into attacks rather than focusing on positioning and taking perfect engagements.
I'm just as strong as many GM players in terms of build order efficiency because that's an aspect that I really focus on. My execution for the first 10 minutes or so is usually close to perfect, and my late-game transitions are timely. But when you look at my forcefields as compared to a player like Minigun or my warp prism control as compared to a player like Leiya, it's not even close. They consistently win fights that I would lose.
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Pretty high masters here, I have played both high masters and low masters fairly recently and in general it is just that high masters know how to respond and will dictate the flow of the game as they wish. It's possible to be low masters and still be around the level of high diamond, twas the case for me for a while. From games I have played vs pro players and GM's (not many tbh) the difference is quite large however if the GM player messes up he can easily lose to a mid master. In a macro game the higher skilled player will dominate; similar to a diamond vs a gold (bronze is a bit extreme). When you reach mid masters improvement is a whole new thing than before. Until there you can improve just by making less mistakes but to improve past there you need too make nearly no mistakes, capitalize on your opponents mistakes and have solid mechanics to improve on. I think Grand masters have just developed every skill to a greater level generally, the most important of which is decision making some of their mechanics are the same as high masters. But to get to gsl standard..... ye you need pretty flawless mechanics and know the best decisions to make. I made it from low masters to a 900 point master with a really good w/l fairly quick so contrary to what some people say i think low masters to high masters is not gonna take you a year if you play allot.... but after you reach high masters you will progress slowly; very slowly. Be prepared for a long haul 
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On December 15 2012 03:15 figaro wrote:Pretty high masters here, I have played both high masters and low masters fairly recently and in general it is just that high masters know how to respond and will dictate the flow of the game as they wish. It's possible to be low masters and still be around the level of high diamond, twas the case for me for a while. From games I have played vs pro players and GM's (not many tbh) the difference is quite large however if the GM player messes up he can easily lose to a mid master. In a macro game the higher skilled player will dominate; similar to a diamond vs a gold (bronze is a bit extreme). When you reach mid masters improvement is a whole new thing than before. Until there you can improve just by making less mistakes but to improve past there you need too make nearly no mistakes, capitalize on your opponents mistakes and have solid mechanics to improve on. I think Grand masters have just developed every skill to a greater level generally, the most important of which is decision making some of their mechanics are the same as high masters. But to get to gsl standard..... ye you need pretty flawless mechanics and know the best decisions to make. I made it from low masters to a 900 point master with a really good w/l fairly quick so contrary to what some people say i think low masters to high masters is not gonna take you a year if you play allot.... but after you reach high masters you will progress slowly; very slowly. Be prepared for a long haul
I agree with everything you say, but 900 points isn't high masters, it's mid. I'm 2000 MMR and 900 points (if I spent bonus pool haha). And 2000 MMR is actually below the halfway point between Master<->GM. And I have a good winrate (nearly 60% last time I checked).
High masters is like 2400+ MMR, or >~1.2k points I believe. Other than that your post is most true 
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On December 15 2012 03:32 Mavvie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 03:15 figaro wrote:Pretty high masters here, I have played both high masters and low masters fairly recently and in general it is just that high masters know how to respond and will dictate the flow of the game as they wish. It's possible to be low masters and still be around the level of high diamond, twas the case for me for a while. From games I have played vs pro players and GM's (not many tbh) the difference is quite large however if the GM player messes up he can easily lose to a mid master. In a macro game the higher skilled player will dominate; similar to a diamond vs a gold (bronze is a bit extreme). When you reach mid masters improvement is a whole new thing than before. Until there you can improve just by making less mistakes but to improve past there you need too make nearly no mistakes, capitalize on your opponents mistakes and have solid mechanics to improve on. I think Grand masters have just developed every skill to a greater level generally, the most important of which is decision making some of their mechanics are the same as high masters. But to get to gsl standard..... ye you need pretty flawless mechanics and know the best decisions to make. I made it from low masters to a 900 point master with a really good w/l fairly quick so contrary to what some people say i think low masters to high masters is not gonna take you a year if you play allot.... but after you reach high masters you will progress slowly; very slowly. Be prepared for a long haul I agree with everything you say, but 900 points isn't high masters, it's mid. I'm 2000 MMR and 900 points (if I spent bonus pool haha). And 2000 MMR is actually below the halfway point between Master<->GM. And I have a good winrate (nearly 60% last time I checked). High masters is like 2400+ MMR, or >~1.2k points I believe. Other than that your post is most true
I'm 2385 and 1.25k so I think you're about right on the translation, I consider myself mid masters though. Not really "high" if I'm still 300 points away from GM.
Theres about a 1100 MMR gap between masters and GM, and I have a theory that the skill gap between each league bronze to diamond is worth about 100MMR and diamond to masters about 150MMR.
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On December 13 2012 17:39 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 17:03 Keilkan wrote:
I'd also like to ask the question; When are you High Master? - When are you TOP master? When are you Mid Master?
Its been a bit hard to pry out information about how many Masters league players there actually are, yet a sound number ranges from 8-9000 per server. Cutting the number down severely, we'll have a good safety net I recon. Since there's 5 servers total, we can assume that at least 30.000 accounts are currently in Masters or GrandMasters.
So are you Mid-Master when you're top 15.000 in the world, or do you need to go higher?
When are you High Masters?
Currently SC2 ranks lists me as ~3800 in the world with ~840 points.
You're Low Masters if you can lose a few games in a row and start seeing diamond leaguers. This is where I am. You're Mid Master when you stop seeing Diamond Leaguers on the ladder, ever, even when you lose some games. You're High or Top Master when you play against GM players on the ladder.
With the expanded match-making which increased the level of variance in opponent MMRs, mid masters players can still see high diamond opponents pretty frequently. It's really only top masters that will see frequent GM players, where its otherwise fairly rare for high masters. And top masters really are just low GM players barely out of range of promotion.
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The Low-Mid-High master lines are really hard to draw out. Some go by MMR, some go by just who they get matched vs. Almost everyone's definition will be similar but also have differences. I usually consider low masters almost no different from high diamonds as they make a lot of mistakes, can't handle more than 1 battle-front and usually lack in macro.
Mid-masters is when I feel you're really on your way up. Mid-masters already will win a great deal of the time vs lower masters and are probably sitting around 700-1000 points on ladder right now. Top ones right now have between 1200-1500. Most all "top" or "high" masters are facing a decent amount of GMs because they're literally in the same MMR pool and thusly of comparable rank. You could really consider bottom 100 GM ranking to just be "The First 100" to hit that MMR rating. A lot of people don't ladder hardcore at the beginning of the season and thusly don't get into GM league right away (sometimes later if a spot opens) but once its locked, a lot of people who are otherwise perfectly capable of playing at that level get stuck in Masters instead.
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EPT
