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There are no plans for a guide to other match-ups at this time. This guide was an entirely organic effort from TL community members of similar interests. |
On November 28 2012 17:43 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2012 17:40 Joneleth wrote:On November 28 2012 17:36 CecilSunkure wrote:On November 28 2012 17:32 Joneleth wrote:
There is an error in it, it says:
◦Double Evolution Chamber: No initial aggression
But thats far from always the case, exspecially Stephano has pioneered going double evo off 6:00 gas timings and then sevely delaying roach warren to primarily rely on lings. So if you scout a early macro hatchery (around 8:00) combined with double evo then it usually means early aggression, whereas if theres only the 3 hatcheries then its less likely. I believe that small bullet list is referring to 3 hatch play. That may be the case but i cant see that referenced anywhere, or atleast its vague enough that it warrants a elaboration to avoid misconceptions from people learning from the thread. I don't think it's vague at all, given that the section is called "Scouting" and includes this quote: Show nested quote +There are three distinct ways to play the early-mid game for Zerg from a 3 Hatch opening versus a FFE. They are characterized by the number of gasses they take and the timing at which they take them:
And the following section is called "two base play from zerg" it seems pretty clear that it's talking about three base play
Including a macro hatchery is also 3 base play, but a inexperienced protoss may interpret this,that if he scouts 2 evo chambers at 7:00 that it means the zerg is not attacking. He needs to scout around 8:00 - 8:30 to make sure theres no macro hatchery or it does mean aggression, all of which is still 3 base play.
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
I was under the impression that a macro hatchery explicitly isn't 3 base play, because instead of taking a third base, you make a hatchery in a base you already have.
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On November 28 2012 17:51 Blazinghand wrote:
I was under the impression that a macro hatchery explicitly isn't 3 base play, because instead of taking a third base, you make a hatchery in a base you already have.
"base" play refers to how many bases you have capable of mining, since the macro hatchery doesnt grow your potentiel for mining, it does not add to the number of base play your doing. 4 base play is only if you have taken your 3rd expansion, and having 2 macro hatcheries with that does not make it a 6 base play.
and im not talking about only taking your natural and then making a macro hatchery in your main, im talking about taking both your natural and your 3rd expansion as usual. But because you intend to have heavy ling aggression you build a 4th hatchery in your base.
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
So you're talking about making 4 hatcheries, 2 evolution chambers, and being aggressive with zerglings and a late roach warren? I think that still falls under 3 base play.
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On November 28 2012 18:02 Blazinghand wrote:
So you're talking about making 4 hatcheries, 2 evolution chambers, and being aggressive with zerglings and a late roach warren? I think that still falls under 3 base play.
I never said it wasnt 3 base play, I said double evolution chamber doesnt nessecarily mean that no aggression will come.
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Awesome guide, just thinking at the amount of work and dedication you guys put into this leaves me speechless. Thank you 
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Holy. Fucking. Shit. There is no word to describe how awesome this is.
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Italy12246 Posts
On November 28 2012 18:09 Joneleth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2012 18:02 Blazinghand wrote:
So you're talking about making 4 hatcheries, 2 evolution chambers, and being aggressive with zerglings and a late roach warren? I think that still falls under 3 base play. I never said it wasnt 3 base play, I said double evolution chamber doesnt nessecarily mean that no aggression will come.
Exactly, it just means that aggression will be delayed. Hence the "no initial aggression".
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This is so good that I would pay 9.99 for a pdf version of other match-ups.
LOL
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TY great post really good work!
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On November 28 2012 19:12 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2012 18:09 Joneleth wrote:On November 28 2012 18:02 Blazinghand wrote:
So you're talking about making 4 hatcheries, 2 evolution chambers, and being aggressive with zerglings and a late roach warren? I think that still falls under 3 base play. I never said it wasnt 3 base play, I said double evolution chamber doesnt nessecarily mean that no aggression will come. Exactly, it just means that aggression will be delayed. Hence the "no initial aggression".
No... the aggression wont be delayed. The aggression will actually hit earlier or same time as any other 3 base aggression, it can hit faster because it relies on speed lings rather than slow roaches.
Most zergs will finish their initial droning around 8:00 they will make their next inject round will then be pure lings combined with the double evo chamber, so it will hit around 8:30-9:00 which is earlier or same time as any other 3 base aggression.
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Italy12246 Posts
Do you have any vods of pro games with that build?
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On November 28 2012 19:57 Teoita wrote:
Do you have any vods of pro games with that build?
No I dont have any on the top of my head, and Im not keen on spending more time on the subject, just wanted to inform about it. But hey take it or leave it, I'll be more than happy to kill unsuspecting protoss who imagine I wont be aggressive.
PS. I copied the build directly of a Stephano game, so if you were interested you can try going through all his games.
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Nice work, but what would happen to this guide with the up-coming HOTS with a bunch of new units?
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Italy12246 Posts
On November 28 2012 19:59 Joneleth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2012 19:57 Teoita wrote:
Do you have any vods of pro games with that build? No I dont have any on the top of my head, and Im not keen on spending more time on the subject, just wanted to inform about it. But hey take it or leave it, I'll be more than happy to kill unsuspecting protoss who imagine I wont be aggressive.
Well the standard we set for the guide was to only include statements that can be backed by a relevant Vod or replay, so all we could do at this point is slightly reword that part.
We'll try to keep the guide updated for HotS afaik, but it will be a while until the game stabilizes so there will be a period in which it won't be too relevant.
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Excellent work, guys. Very well done.
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Russian Federation51 Posts
Omg, this is very nice article. Thank you TeamLiquid!
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I just have to thank everyone who compiled this guide again, PvZ went from a feared matchup for me to one I can enjoy more now. I feel so much more confident when I go up against a zerg and the results are really showing
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Impressive guide well done
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Nice to see that you release a PvZ guide now that a patch is coming soon and will certainly change PvZ forever. Your guide will be outdated in less than a month :/
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EPT
