EPTwill be going ling/viper into infestor into ultra. thinking it will go pretty well.
The (HotS) Zerg Help Me Thread Beta - Page 4
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dragoon
United States695 Posts
will be going ling/viper into infestor into ultra. thinking it will go pretty well. | ||
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nonsequitur
384 Posts
On November 20 2012 06:01 joon wrote: I'm thinking on working on a zvz strat that goes much like the old ling/infestor into ultra build. will be going ling/viper into infestor into ultra. thinking it will go pretty well. I don't see the point of vipers when you will be fighting in melee range anyway. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10645 Posts
What is the best opening composition? I feel like Roach hydra to deflect the widowmines, hellions, banshee, while you expand then into swarmhost with infestor, then eventually into broodlords, but I am beginning to feel like BL tech is pretty pointless if all the terrans are just going BC with vikings and ravens ect, a lot of air units which BL are pointless vs, so maybe it would just be better to skip Broodlords all together when you know terran is going to go air...I'd like to hear some other Zerg's point of views on the best openings and best way to win vs terran mech in ZvT, because 90+ % of all ZvT I play the terran goes mech and I lose. | ||
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PineapplePizza
United States749 Posts
How are you opening? Are you having trouble taking a third somehow? You really, really need to give us a replay. You should be aiming for Broodlord / Infestor, since it still shuts down Terran super hard. Vipers should only be used as a stop-gap to hold off pre-hive timing pushes, since they build super fast and don't take too long to juice up. Don't bother being aggressive before you have broods, since mines are not fun to deal with when they're in front of tanks. | ||
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Zeon0
Austria2995 Posts
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Decendos
Germany1338 Posts
SH is very good in midgame ZvP and ZvZ but is way too expensive. you will need to go completely all in with SHs because they take all your minerals AND gas AND the upgrade is 200 200 and 120 (!!) seconds, so a lot of time you have a shitty unit for which you need to use all your ressources. they need to adjust their costs to sth. like 150/75 and 2 supply so they are actually useful in later game stages. and they suck overall in ZvT since basically every T unit is good vs SHs. dont know how to fix them ZvT. maybe the cheaper 2 supply hosts makes it more viable to do more multipronged attacks which would make them better vs tanks etc. | ||
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LOLItsRyann
England551 Posts
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TibblesEvilCat
United Kingdom766 Posts
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dragoon
United States695 Posts
i was trying a ling/infestor into viper/ultra style and the widowmines are such a fucking pain in the ass to deal with. you can't attack into a terran army because they'll have mines under the army and you can't kill them with your melee army? help please, im getting insanely frustrated with all this.... | ||
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ultrakiss
97 Posts
I open roach into hydra at lair tech and then (obviously) I want to transition to hive and vipers. I know im going to need corruptors for collosi, but I need the infestation pit for hive. Plus swarm hosts seem to be a pretty strong addition to the comp. Im pretty sure Im weakest when morphing hive because 1) I dont have hydra speed 2) I dont have vipers. Which allows me to play safer so I can get the other tech building after? Infestation pit tech or Spire tech? | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On December 06 2012 01:43 ultrakiss wrote: If I'm going roach hydra viper in ZvP should I be getting my infestation pit or spire first? I open roach into hydra at lair tech and then (obviously) I want to transition to hive and vipers. I know im going to need corruptors for collosi, but I need the infestation pit for hive. Plus swarm hosts seem to be a pretty strong addition to the comp. Im pretty sure Im weakest when morphing hive because 1) I dont have hydra speed 2) I dont have vipers. Which allows me to play safer so I can get the other tech building after? Infestation pit tech or Spire tech? You don't need corruptors for colossi. Vipers work very well vs this just get infestation pit first and go hive. I am having good success with this atm. | ||
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ultrakiss
97 Posts
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Kambing
United States1176 Posts
On December 06 2012 10:39 ultrakiss wrote: thank you blade55555. Is this because the collosus count wont get high enough to roll me if I go straight hive? It actually takes the same time to morph a hive and make a viper as it does to build a spire and make a corruptor (100 + 40s). The viper has to chomp on a building for an extra couple of seconds to have the energy to abduct, but that's not that big of a deal. | ||
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ultrakiss
97 Posts
 Not that beta rank is that indicative of anything, but Im still super pumped | ||
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SirPsychoMantis
United States180 Posts
EDIT: Thinking about it a bit more, what real viable strategies do we have against T now? Ling / Hydra to clear out mines? Might be ok with lair speed. Pure mutas vs mines seem like a lost cause. Infestors severely nerfed. I'm kind of at a loss for mid game strategies. | ||
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Drunken.Jedi
Germany446 Posts
Between stronger Reapers, Hellbats, Widow Mines and extra fast Medivacs, Terran early game has become a lot stronger, while all we got is the ability to make Spores without an Evo. Therefore I don't think fast gasless 3rd base is viable any more, whereas Terran can go fast 3 Orbitals even more easily thanks to the buffs to their early game. Am I right in this assessment, or is there some way to make fast 3rd base viable in HotS or to reliably punish fast 3 OC? But even if I make it out of the early game in decent shape, I have no idea what to go for. Roach based compositions are just ineffective against bio and the new Medivac upgrade makes it even worse. Muta Ling Bling seems really weak now because Widow Mines make Muta harassment much more difficult (and they're also really good against Lings and Banes) and Lings just melt away if the Terran makes some Hellbats. Ling Infestor midgame again suffers from Lings getting easily roasted and Infestors were heavily nerfed. This is not meant as a balance complaint, I'm just honestly at my wits end with this matchup. I had trouble with HotS ZvT even before the last patch, but now it just feels like late WoL beta all over again. Anyone have any advice on how to play this matchup against pure bio or bio-mech? | ||
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Tif
Germany19 Posts
On December 09 2012 08:53 Drunken.Jedi wrote: I'm at a bit of a loss against Terran right now. Playing against mech is tough, but I have a pretty good idea of what to do. However, I just have no idea how to handle bio and bio-mech. Between stronger Reapers, Hellbats, Widow Mines and extra fast Medivacs, Terran early game has become a lot stronger, while all we got is the ability to make Spores without an Evo. Therefore I don't think fast gasless 3rd base is viable any more, whereas Terran can go fast 3 Orbitals even more easily thanks to the buffs to their early game. Am I right in this assessment, or is there some way to make fast 3rd base viable in HotS or to reliably punish fast 3 OC? But even if I make it out of the early game in decent shape, I have no idea what to go for. Roach based compositions are just ineffective against bio and the new Medivac upgrade makes it even worse. Muta Ling Bling seems really weak now because Widow Mines make Muta harassment much more difficult (and they're also really good against Lings and Banes) and Lings just melt away if the Terran makes some Hellbats. Ling Infestor midgame again suffers from Lings getting easily roasted and Infestors were heavily nerfed. This is not meant as a balance complaint, I'm just honestly at my wits end with this matchup. I had trouble with HotS ZvT even before the last patch, but now it just feels like late WoL beta all over again. Anyone have any advice on how to play this matchup against pure bio or bio-mech? My expireance is that the mass queen expand still deals with most of the threats terran has in the early game. If T gets Banshees or mines you ofc. need about 1 spore per expansion. I did not tryed it out since the last patch, but I think its thil viable. | ||
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SoFrOsTy
United States525 Posts
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NeonFox
2373 Posts
On December 09 2012 10:39 SoFrOsTy wrote: How are you guys dealing with spider mines early game? I am finding that I can't even compete vs terran because spider mines have so much map control and deal so much damage. What unit am I supposed to use? I tried teching to hydras, but they just put me too far behind because of how gas intense they are. It depends if it is gas first mines or mines after a rax expand. I'm not sure about the first but you can deal pretty easily with the later. In fact I'm happy if I see mines coming early, it means the reactor factory time has not been used for hellions and that banshees are delayed. You can build less lings because of this, a single spore at the ramp and a single one at the third (if going for early third) and a sacrificial ling should be enough to clear the way for the queens (considering 4 queen opener, 2 queens clear mines decently fast). It's important to clear them as soon as possible, or else they can kite once hellions and banshees come. | ||
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SoFrOsTy
United States525 Posts
On December 09 2012 10:47 NeonFox wrote: It depends if it is gas first mines or mines after a rax expand. I'm not sure about the first but you can deal pretty easily with the later. In fact I'm happy if I see mines coming early, it means the reactor factory time has not been used for hellions and that banshees are delayed. You can build less lings because of this, a single spore at the ramp and a single one at the third (if going for early third) and a sacrificial ling should be enough to clear the way for the queens (considering 4 queen opener, 2 queens clear mines decently fast). It's important to clear them as soon as possible, or else they can kite once hellions and banshees come. I am sorry, I should have been more clear. Past the early game.. I am finding most GM's I am facing are putting widow mines all along the path from my base to their's. It is dealign so much damage and killing entire packs of lings. I don't know what to do to combat this. The onyl 2 units I can think of that don't suicide when fighting them is the Hydra and the Queen. The Hydra is fine, except it cost too much to keep a good army comp alive that is solid vs Bio. Queens do well vs widow mines close to your base, but past that they are useless as you're not going to slow move them across the map. So what are you guys doing past 9 mins to deal with widow mines planted all over the map? | ||
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