EPTOther than viper's blight timing against mech it's hard to find anything new for zerg in hots.
It's hard to use lings at lategame or any point of game against T which kills me a lot inside.
The (HotS) Zerg Help Me Thread Beta - Page 26
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Ryndika
1489 Posts
Other than viper's blight timing against mech it's hard to find anything new for zerg in hots. It's hard to use lings at lategame or any point of game against T which kills me a lot inside. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On February 24 2013 03:53 Ryndika wrote: Atm hots feels like playing wol against just better opponent races, cant realy allin them and they get insanely better lategame. Anyone figured how to use swarm host in macro game zvt or zvp (not allin)? And vipers seem to die ever time I engage to either feedbacks or thors. Other than viper's blight timing against mech it's hard to find anything new for zerg in hots. It's hard to use lings at lategame or any point of game against T which kills me a lot inside. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=397186 You should check the VODs, those are Swarm Hosts games, where he use them as mid game army, and he is aggressive(or defensive) with them, while expanding and teching to Ultras/Brood Lords. Blade also released like ~20 Replays against GM players, but they are from older versions, so I doubt that you will be able to see them. I don't know, from what I've seen, Zerg is pretty different with the Infestor nerfs, and I like it a lot. I've seen a lot of strategies and unit compositions that you didn't see at all in the WoL. | ||
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-iNko
Lithuania160 Posts
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Altsa
Finland990 Posts
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Glon
United States569 Posts
On February 24 2013 21:22 Altsa wrote: Is there someplace where I can find zerg build orders below 50 supply? Haven´t played sc2 for 7 months and I have no idea what im doing. Just throwing random stuff down and hoping for the best atm. Stream vods are generally the best place to go. Hyun streams (is listed right now), I stream (see signature if interested), Idra streams. Generally just go through the vods and write down the supply for build orders for a couple games in each matchup. | ||
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Glon
United States569 Posts
On February 24 2013 03:53 Ryndika wrote: Atm hots feels like playing wol against just better opponent races, cant realy allin them and they get insanely better lategame. Anyone figured how to use swarm host in macro game zvt or zvp (not allin)? And vipers seem to die ever time I engage to either feedbacks or thors. Other than viper's blight timing against mech it's hard to find anything new for zerg in hots. It's hard to use lings at lategame or any point of game against T which kills me a lot inside. Generally, swarm hosts are used as a gateway unit versus Protoss. They are the unit that allows zerg to constantly pressure protoss while expanding and teching up to hive tech. That being said, I feel that versus non-stargate play Mutalisk is the better option. Map dependent, defending against swarm hosts with a sim city/3-4 collosus is too easy for the protoss player while he gets his air/collosus/gateway ball up on 3-4 bases. Mutalisks allow for the zerg to harass everywhere, whereas swarm hosts are concentrated in 1 area of assault. Additionally, mutalisks translate into the late game better than swarm hosts. But remember: In games where the protoss player is all inning you, swarm hosts reign supreme. With their huge cost efficiency, swarm hosts are the way to go to defend gateway/gateway+robo all ins whereas the mutalisk player will struggle, a lot. | ||
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Glon
United States569 Posts
On February 20 2013 07:35 SirPsychoMantis wrote: Has anyone tried using the pre-lair burrow for anything yet? Even cheesy, moderately effective builds I'd be interested to hear. Generally, a timing with burrow on hatchery is only used in ZvT (although sometimes in ZvP coupled with an early pool to further delay the expansion, but ussually not). The build order: -15 hatchery -16 spawning pool -15 gas 2 queens upon the spawning pool completing. Start Roach warren when queens ~35% done. Begin burrow immediately after queens complete. Pre-prepare overlords for incoming 7-8 roaches. Remember, you're trying to force scans out of your opponent while harassing/attacking with roaches, so burrow micro weakened roaches (and move them back when the terran scans to prolong their lifespan as much as possible). I don't really find burrow roach timings that effective - if the terran properly deals with them (widow mine + bunker or fast siege tank) it will place you very far behind. But then again, with how ridiculously hard ZvT is right now, it may be a good thing to try out. | ||
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Tsubbi
Germany7997 Posts
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kmh
Finland351 Posts
On February 26 2013 00:34 Tsubbi wrote: ok guys how do you manage to not choke a kitten or even worse switch races going into hots? serious question, played 8 years of wc3 with undead and sticked to zerg through the darkest times of wol but hots is giving me serious nightmares in both zvp and zvt. dont even know where to start but honestly, current wol zerg seems stronger than hots zerg to me rofl Helps if you played WoL at release. ZvT feels really hard, I have no idea what to do against many compositions. I'm going to have to relearn a lot of stuff. Bio+WM in particular feels really hard to beat for some reason. ZvP late-game is really hard, but swarm hosts and speed hydras open up timings for zerg aggression so you can actually put some hurt on the protoss. It's definitively possible to prevent a skytoss ball from forming on many maps, and in general swarm hosts just make for interesting and fun play I feel. Vipers are really key in ZvP/ZvT, so it makes a lot of sense to go for hive ASAP. | ||
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GGY0UMAKE
United States24 Posts
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Savant.GL
Germany502 Posts
On February 26 2013 09:59 GGY0UMAKE wrote: What do you do vs Widows mines ???? they destory your economy and you cant have any early aggression need help Basically have to blindly make roach defense and spores at this point vs terran, Don't expect your roaches to even scare the terran though, it used to be that making roaches would force terran to worry about roach pressure but WM and siege tanks that start with siege remove any aggressive potential. ZvT is just stupid right now | ||
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Novacute
Australia313 Posts
On February 26 2013 01:13 kmh wrote: Helps if you played WoL at release. ZvT feels really hard, I have no idea what to do against many compositions. I'm going to have to relearn a lot of stuff. Bio+WM in particular feels really hard to beat for some reason. ZvP late-game is really hard, but swarm hosts and speed hydras open up timings for zerg aggression so you can actually put some hurt on the protoss. It's definitively possible to prevent a skytoss ball from forming on many maps, and in general swarm hosts just make for interesting and fun play I feel. Vipers are really key in ZvP/ZvT, so it makes a lot of sense to go for hive ASAP. Roach hydra performs well against Bio compositions with widow mines. The general approach is to snipe the mines first as they try to burrow and obtain a good concave with your army while kiting hellbats if they're too close. Overall this comp trades well if T doesn't go tanks. As tanks start appearing on the field, start deploying vipers and build a couple of ultras to soak damage. As for ZvP, been running into a wall lately, so can't advise you there. | ||
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Novacute
Australia313 Posts
On February 26 2013 09:59 GGY0UMAKE wrote: What do you do vs Widows mines ???? they destory your economy and you cant have any early aggression need help Hey can you provide a replay? I'm not sure what sort of problem you're having without analysing your build vs theirs. As for dealing with mine drops, the general approach is to obviously remove your workers from the site, send a ling to soak the shot, while you reposition your spore to detect it. You have a 40 second window to kill each mine. After the shot goes off, you should continue mining immediately. The 4 mines should have 4 kills in total if you did it right. | ||
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SirPsychoMantis
United States180 Posts
Basic strategy I've been following is a regular 2 base opening with a tech to lair @100 gas and pump out swarm hosts and queens. Once you make the nidus, I'm not sure if you need both injecting queens, since swarm hosts are pretty expensive. Send the queens, SHs, and a few drones through and build the nidus in a safe place outside the enemy base. Follow up if you don't kill them is typically expand + spire since air and colo are the best ways to push back SHs. | ||
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Glon
United States569 Posts
On February 27 2013 03:22 SirPsychoMantis wrote: I've been playing a bit more and I've really taken a liking to the swarm host nidus attack. The holds I've seen against it are stargate openers, but I have started to incorporate more spores and queens in the build. Has anyone else been trying this out? What problems are you running in to? Basic strategy I've been following is a regular 2 base opening with a tech to lair @100 gas and pump out swarm hosts and queens. Once you make the nidus, I'm not sure if you need both injecting queens, since swarm hosts are pretty expensive. Send the queens, SHs, and a few drones through and build the nidus in a safe place outside the enemy base. Follow up if you don't kill them is typically expand + spire since air and colo are the best ways to push back SHs. So you're trying to go for a 2 base swarmhost/queen nydus allin? Seems really fishy. I would think that off of 3 bases (it would hit ~ 2 minutes later) the attack would be much more powerful. I just don't see you having enough $$ (minerals and gas) to afford a good number of swarm hosts + constant queen production that are needed for such an attack. | ||
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SirPsychoMantis
United States180 Posts
On February 27 2013 03:30 Glon wrote: So you're trying to go for a 2 base swarmhost/queen nydus allin? Seems really fishy. I would think that off of 3 bases (it would hit ~ 2 minutes later) the attack would be much more powerful. I just don't see you having enough $$ (minerals and gas) to afford a good number of swarm hosts + constant queen production that are needed for such an attack. Yeah I've been doing it as a 2 base all in to get a feel for the build, definitely feels a bit short on money but it has worked alright at a plat-diamond level. I think I may try a 3 base variant today with a better late game plan. | ||
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EdgeSC
119 Posts
Key units : Swarm hosts, Vipers, Hydras, Spores. Check out the units lost tab. 1. http://drop.sc/307297 - vs 1650 masters toss 2. http://drop.sc/307335 - vs 1750 masters toss 3. http://drop.sc/307371 - vs 1800 masters toss | ||
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raybasto
United States151 Posts
On February 26 2013 01:13 kmh wrote: Vipers are really key in ZvP/ZvT, so it makes a lot of sense to go for hive ASAP. Would you compensate upgrades for Hive? Also what is the best compositions to stall until Hive, whenever I try Ling/Hydra into Swarm Hosts in ZvP I get hit with a timing Collosi Stalker Stargate timing and if I use Mutas to stall in ZvT, Widow Mines don't allow for harass/attacks which lets them build up for a strong midgame attack. Also tried mass Roach Hyun style ZvT and I get dropped to death even with units at each base What unit compositions are you guys using for each match up? Unrelated question: In ZvZ Muta v Muta late game, is it better to mix in Corruptors for Corruption or just straight Muta? | ||
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EdgeSC
119 Posts
On February 28 2013 14:27 raybasto wrote: Would you compensate upgrades for Hive? Also what is the best compositions to stall until Hive, whenever I try Ling/Hydra into Swarm Hosts in ZvP I get hit with a timing Collosi Stalker Stargate timing and if I use Mutas to stall in ZvT, Widow Mines don't allow for harass/attacks which lets them build up for a strong midgame attack. Also tried mass Roach Hyun style ZvT and I get dropped to death even with units at each base What unit compositions are you guys using for each match up? Unrelated question: In ZvZ Muta v Muta late game, is it better to mix in Corruptors for Corruption or just straight Muta? Right now, for Zvp Hydra ling Corruptor Swarm Host or Hydra Swarm Host ling is the best composition to stall until hive. Try not to make more than 20 hydras unless really needed to defend. Go hive after you have around 12--14 Swarm Hosts. For ZvT, Ling Bling Hydra Roach or Ling Bling Mutalisks or Ling Roach Bling Swarm host or Ling Bling Roach Infestor is played often until hive. Try to use speedlings to stay under drops, keep your overlord spread to see incoming dropships if terran doesn't make vikings. Zvz Muta late game, all your gas should be spent on muta and muta upgrades, unless you're both not engaging which is only if static defense is made. Ultralisks are the best late game units in ZvZ if mutalisks are excluded. | ||
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EdgeSC
119 Posts
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