• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 07:13
CEST 13:13
KST 20:13
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall9HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles0[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China7Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL64Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?13FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event22
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles Program: SC2 / XSplit / OBS Scene Switcher The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Statistics for vetoed/disliked maps Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays Korean Starcraft League Week 77
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
ASL20 Preliminary Maps Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL SC uni coach streams logging into betting site Player “Jedi” cheat on CSL BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Summer Games Done Quick 2024! Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Blogs
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 759 users

The (HotS) Zerg Help Me Thread Beta - Page 25

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 23 24 25 26 27 Next All
Zerum
Profile Joined February 2008
Sweden348 Posts
February 17 2013 14:36 GMT
#481
You are not supposed to go pure muta. Even more so if your opponent doesn't go muta. When I have been against a heavy ground army I have gone fore big ling/bling armies with my muta and I always get upgrades for melee/carapace. You also get the attack upgrade instead carapace on your mutas when against a ground army. It can be a bit hard to make sure your blings hit the hydras and you have to spread your mutas so not all get caught in a fungal. You must also play very aggressive when you go mutas. It is not that important that you do damage as long as you force spores and can expand behind it but you have to push his army back as son as he tries to move out or setup good flanks and burrows.
Forikorder
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada8840 Posts
February 17 2013 17:38 GMT
#482
On February 17 2013 17:07 Spyridon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2013 14:16 Zerum wrote:
I have only gotten to to super lategame in ZvZ once so far but I think you should aim ultra/queen/muta or brood. If you can get air superiority you can start getting some broods. The match up is very fragile right now, you can make huge swings in army composition after close battles and go at your opponent wit a air superiority or army superiority and just ignore the air for a short time. What I feel is the most important right now is to establish mapcontroll with multitasking no matter what army style you go for. keep your enemy contained and keep eyes all over the map so you don't miss any counter attacks as it will be a war for expansions. It is a very hard to straight up kill your opponent in ZvZ you have to out live him.


The last 2 lategame ZvZ's I've had ended with my opponent going Ultras, and me getting Broodlords out just in the nick of time, at which he didn't have time to tech switch to take them out before they slowly moved over his base.

It does seem to get to late game easier though. Mutas haven't been as efficient either, 2 Spores cover the harass perfectly, and by the time they reach critical mass you can just push their base with Hydras and they will be forced to defend.

mutas are more to prevent them from getting 3 bases easily and stop temf rom ever taking a 4th plus the extra damage on spores isnt a big deal once your ball is big enough to make spores evaportate
Spyridon
Profile Joined April 2010
United States997 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-18 03:41:01
February 18 2013 03:38 GMT
#483
On February 18 2013 02:38 Forikorder wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2013 17:07 Spyridon wrote:
On February 17 2013 14:16 Zerum wrote:
I have only gotten to to super lategame in ZvZ once so far but I think you should aim ultra/queen/muta or brood. If you can get air superiority you can start getting some broods. The match up is very fragile right now, you can make huge swings in army composition after close battles and go at your opponent wit a air superiority or army superiority and just ignore the air for a short time. What I feel is the most important right now is to establish mapcontroll with multitasking no matter what army style you go for. keep your enemy contained and keep eyes all over the map so you don't miss any counter attacks as it will be a war for expansions. It is a very hard to straight up kill your opponent in ZvZ you have to out live him.


The last 2 lategame ZvZ's I've had ended with my opponent going Ultras, and me getting Broodlords out just in the nick of time, at which he didn't have time to tech switch to take them out before they slowly moved over his base.

It does seem to get to late game easier though. Mutas haven't been as efficient either, 2 Spores cover the harass perfectly, and by the time they reach critical mass you can just push their base with Hydras and they will be forced to defend.


mutas are more to prevent them from getting 3 bases easily and stop temf rom ever taking a 4th plus the extra damage on spores isnt a big deal once your ball is big enough to make spores evaportate


The timings on that is screwy now. By the time the Mutas are out you can easily have your bases ready, spores up, some Hydras as backup, and an upgrade lead on the Hydras at least 1/1 by then. Even if you stick to 2 bases instead of three (even though you can normally take 3 early safely) you can beat 3 bases of Mutas due to the gas difference. Just having Hydras usually discourage the Muta play and bring you ahead, and if not force an attack on the enemy and they HAVE to use the Mutas for defense, or else they lose.
reapsen
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany559 Posts
February 19 2013 11:07 GMT
#484
Has anyone found a hellbat-safe opening that transitions well into 3base muta?

I either end up with way to many roaches from 2 bases, that delay my muta production waaay to much. So much that it isn't even worth going mutas at all.

Or i have a very weak zergling + spinecrawler defense, that can safe a lot of gas for sure, but is very risky to die against a hellbat+marine push (or drop).
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
February 19 2013 13:59 GMT
#485
On February 19 2013 20:07 reapsen wrote:
Has anyone found a hellbat-safe opening that transitions well into 3base muta?

I either end up with way to many roaches from 2 bases, that delay my muta production waaay to much. So much that it isn't even worth going mutas at all.

Or i have a very weak zergling + spinecrawler defense, that can safe a lot of gas for sure, but is very risky to die against a hellbat+marine push (or drop).

Didn't try it, but maybe open with Banelings instead of Roaches? Hellbats still take extra damage from Banelings, same as Marines, since they are all light. So you can go as you described, Lings and Spine Crawlers, but add a bit of Banelings in the mix, and you can always add more if you scout the timing attack.
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
rustypipe
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada206 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-19 16:44:54
February 19 2013 16:42 GMT
#486
On February 19 2013 22:59 Ramiz1989 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 19 2013 20:07 reapsen wrote:
Has anyone found a hellbat-safe opening that transitions well into 3base muta?

I either end up with way to many roaches from 2 bases, that delay my muta production waaay to much. So much that it isn't even worth going mutas at all.

Or i have a very weak zergling + spinecrawler defense, that can safe a lot of gas for sure, but is very risky to die against a hellbat+marine push (or drop).

Didn't try it, but maybe open with Banelings instead of Roaches? Hellbats still take extra damage from Banelings, same as Marines, since they are all light. So you can go as you described, Lings and Spine Crawlers, but add a bit of Banelings in the mix, and you can always add more if you scout the timing attack.


I've managed to handle this with lings / banes / and spines with good creep spread. Also I've been setting up a trap where I leave enough space for their 6-8 hellions to run into my base just to get surrounded by lings / banes. Most Terran can't pass up this good opportunity and shoot for it. After the early stages I tech switch to muta to drop tank / hellbat numbers and horras as I secure a 4th and transition into swarm hosts. Swarm hosts can handle mech well as long as siege numbers are not in huge numbers. With the last transition into viper / Ultra to help pull thors and tank into locus. Its been working pretty well for the most part, still working out the exact timings tho.

I find this transition better for a few reasons.

1.) Roach hydra is very good and strong in the mid game, however you have little way to reduce tank numbers if the Terran are smart, and you have little to no way to horass other then drops. Without reduction of tank numbers the end game gets ugly as a good terran will mix in a few ravens and thors with 7+ seige. The Ravens prevent hydra's from shooting cutting out a LARGE number of your DPS while siege rape your roach hydra line.

2.) If you upgrade your melee and carapace with the plan to finally transition into Ultra I find it gives more tech switch abilities. For instance since your muta will be forcing turrets and droping hellbat / tank numbers locus and ultra will be more effective in the final switch. Plus if you see the terran is going no vikings because he doesn't think a BL switch will happen you can quickly transition into Broodlords and your broodlings are 3-3 cracklings to help reduce tank numbers or break Terran defensive lines, then switch back to a ling bane ultra or whatever other composition is required. I've even had games where I had broodlord, swarmhost, ling ultra to clean up the last wave of terran units which worked out well because I was spawning a sick amount of free units

I find this effective because vs Mech there is no 1 unit composition answer per say, its about constant trading and tech switching to have the best unit composition to match his at the time. Hope this helps

The beatings will continue until moral improves!
SirPsychoMantis
Profile Joined December 2011
United States180 Posts
February 19 2013 22:35 GMT
#487
Has anyone tried using the pre-lair burrow for anything yet? Even cheesy, moderately effective builds I'd be interested to hear.
Zerg #1
JDub
Profile Joined December 2010
United States976 Posts
February 19 2013 22:53 GMT
#488
On February 20 2013 07:35 SirPsychoMantis wrote:
Has anyone tried using the pre-lair burrow for anything yet? Even cheesy, moderately effective builds I'd be interested to hear.

I have tried using it in ZvZ for a pretty lame trick -- get burrow, speedling run-by, burrow pairs of lings here and there in the corner of their base, then wait for a little bit, unburrow them, morph banelings, and blow up their drones.

I don't think it's actually a good tactic at all, but it also allows you to burrow a ling at their 3rd to deny that and use burrowed banelings to defend yourself against later ling aggression.
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
February 19 2013 23:41 GMT
#489
On February 20 2013 01:42 rustypipe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 19 2013 22:59 Ramiz1989 wrote:
On February 19 2013 20:07 reapsen wrote:
Has anyone found a hellbat-safe opening that transitions well into 3base muta?

I either end up with way to many roaches from 2 bases, that delay my muta production waaay to much. So much that it isn't even worth going mutas at all.

Or i have a very weak zergling + spinecrawler defense, that can safe a lot of gas for sure, but is very risky to die against a hellbat+marine push (or drop).

Didn't try it, but maybe open with Banelings instead of Roaches? Hellbats still take extra damage from Banelings, same as Marines, since they are all light. So you can go as you described, Lings and Spine Crawlers, but add a bit of Banelings in the mix, and you can always add more if you scout the timing attack.


I've managed to handle this with lings / banes / and spines with good creep spread. Also I've been setting up a trap where I leave enough space for their 6-8 hellions to run into my base just to get surrounded by lings / banes. Most Terran can't pass up this good opportunity and shoot for it. After the early stages I tech switch to muta to drop tank / hellbat numbers and horras as I secure a 4th and transition into swarm hosts. Swarm hosts can handle mech well as long as siege numbers are not in huge numbers. With the last transition into viper / Ultra to help pull thors and tank into locus. Its been working pretty well for the most part, still working out the exact timings tho.

I find this transition better for a few reasons.

1.) Roach hydra is very good and strong in the mid game, however you have little way to reduce tank numbers if the Terran are smart, and you have little to no way to horass other then drops. Without reduction of tank numbers the end game gets ugly as a good terran will mix in a few ravens and thors with 7+ seige. The Ravens prevent hydra's from shooting cutting out a LARGE number of your DPS while siege rape your roach hydra line.

2.) If you upgrade your melee and carapace with the plan to finally transition into Ultra I find it gives more tech switch abilities. For instance since your muta will be forcing turrets and droping hellbat / tank numbers locus and ultra will be more effective in the final switch. Plus if you see the terran is going no vikings because he doesn't think a BL switch will happen you can quickly transition into Broodlords and your broodlings are 3-3 cracklings to help reduce tank numbers or break Terran defensive lines, then switch back to a ling bane ultra or whatever other composition is required. I've even had games where I had broodlord, swarmhost, ling ultra to clean up the last wave of terran units which worked out well because I was spawning a sick amount of free units

I find this effective because vs Mech there is no 1 unit composition answer per say, its about constant trading and tech switching to have the best unit composition to match his at the time. Hope this helps



Would you mind sharing a replay? I need to completely relearn zvt and your style sounds very cool.
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
reapsen
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany559 Posts
February 20 2013 17:15 GMT
#490
On February 20 2013 07:35 SirPsychoMantis wrote:
Has anyone tried using the pre-lair burrow for anything yet? Even cheesy, moderately effective builds I'd be interested to hear.


If you delay a 7RR or 5RR cheese, you can boost with early burrow in ZvZ or ZvP. It gets micro intense, as you have to single burrow roaches, just like blink stalkers or in that micro trainers.
Siggeh
Profile Joined January 2012
Norway71 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-20 19:54:32
February 20 2013 19:52 GMT
#491
Oh my fucking GOD !
How the fuck do u finish obnoxius protosses who decides to camp with 200 maxed tempest / void ray / HT army behind one million cannons in a corner?????
I was so far ahead...
At the end I realized he was not going to quit, he said he could kill me after some time with his tempest.... what could I do to win??? He was slowly killing my spines / spores .. I had a bank of 8k and could make the game least for like 3 more hours but decided to suicide my army and lost.. (I would have lost anyway after about 3 hours as he would chop down my stuff with his tempests)

Replay:
http://drop.sc/305941

I'm GM in hots, this dude was top masters.....if it matters. (Master in WoL tho)

Edit: sorry if I'm being mean, but this was like the first time I was close to take down a skytoss player..... then he decides to do this shit T_T

Edit2: btw anyone who suggests brood lords deserves a kick in his butt.
rustypipe
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada206 Posts
February 20 2013 20:57 GMT
#492
On February 20 2013 08:41 Musicus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 20 2013 01:42 rustypipe wrote:
On February 19 2013 22:59 Ramiz1989 wrote:
On February 19 2013 20:07 reapsen wrote:
Has anyone found a hellbat-safe opening that transitions well into 3base muta?

I either end up with way to many roaches from 2 bases, that delay my muta production waaay to much. So much that it isn't even worth going mutas at all.

Or i have a very weak zergling + spinecrawler defense, that can safe a lot of gas for sure, but is very risky to die against a hellbat+marine push (or drop).

Didn't try it, but maybe open with Banelings instead of Roaches? Hellbats still take extra damage from Banelings, same as Marines, since they are all light. So you can go as you described, Lings and Spine Crawlers, but add a bit of Banelings in the mix, and you can always add more if you scout the timing attack.


I've managed to handle this with lings / banes / and spines with good creep spread. Also I've been setting up a trap where I leave enough space for their 6-8 hellions to run into my base just to get surrounded by lings / banes. Most Terran can't pass up this good opportunity and shoot for it. After the early stages I tech switch to muta to drop tank / hellbat numbers and horras as I secure a 4th and transition into swarm hosts. Swarm hosts can handle mech well as long as siege numbers are not in huge numbers. With the last transition into viper / Ultra to help pull thors and tank into locus. Its been working pretty well for the most part, still working out the exact timings tho.

I find this transition better for a few reasons.

1.) Roach hydra is very good and strong in the mid game, however you have little way to reduce tank numbers if the Terran are smart, and you have little to no way to horass other then drops. Without reduction of tank numbers the end game gets ugly as a good terran will mix in a few ravens and thors with 7+ seige. The Ravens prevent hydra's from shooting cutting out a LARGE number of your DPS while siege rape your roach hydra line.

2.) If you upgrade your melee and carapace with the plan to finally transition into Ultra I find it gives more tech switch abilities. For instance since your muta will be forcing turrets and droping hellbat / tank numbers locus and ultra will be more effective in the final switch. Plus if you see the terran is going no vikings because he doesn't think a BL switch will happen you can quickly transition into Broodlords and your broodlings are 3-3 cracklings to help reduce tank numbers or break Terran defensive lines, then switch back to a ling bane ultra or whatever other composition is required. I've even had games where I had broodlord, swarmhost, ling ultra to clean up the last wave of terran units which worked out well because I was spawning a sick amount of free units

I find this effective because vs Mech there is no 1 unit composition answer per say, its about constant trading and tech switching to have the best unit composition to match his at the time. Hope this helps



Would you mind sharing a replay? I need to completely relearn zvt and your style sounds very cool.


Sure thing, when I get home today I'll try and post a replay for you. If you play on the NA server at all let me know and I can do some custom games with people and show you.

I've also been playing around with Ling, Bane > into Swarm hosts > Into Ultra Viper or other transitions when facing mech. This was due to a game where the terran went heavy mines and kept killing all my muta / lings with them. The Swarm Hosts where used specifically to just contain while I took 4th/5th and teched to ultra and other transitions required to prevent his 4th.


The beatings will continue until moral improves!
Merikh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States918 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-21 01:35:27
February 21 2013 01:28 GMT
#493
On February 21 2013 04:52 Siggeh wrote:
Oh my fucking GOD !
How the fuck do u finish obnoxius protosses who decides to camp with 200 maxed tempest / void ray / HT army behind one million cannons in a corner?????
I was so far ahead...
At the end I realized he was not going to quit, he said he could kill me after some time with his tempest.... what could I do to win??? He was slowly killing my spines / spores .. I had a bank of 8k and could make the game least for like 3 more hours but decided to suicide my army and lost.. (I would have lost anyway after about 3 hours as he would chop down my stuff with his tempests)

Replay:
http://drop.sc/305941

I'm GM in hots, this dude was top masters.....if it matters. (Master in WoL tho)

Edit: sorry if I'm being mean, but this was like the first time I was close to take down a skytoss player..... then he decides to do this shit T_T

Edit2: btw anyone who suggests brood lords deserves a kick in his butt.


I'm no pro, but why didn't you kill him at the 15 minute mark. Only had stalkers and a handful of phoenix. Felt like ling/bane/muta should have just destroyed him.

Edit: He had 4 phoenix, 21 stalkers. You had 2k minerals 1k gas. I think you could have took that.
Edit: 25 minute mark he was focusing on pure tempest, you destroyede his collosus, i feel like hydra/viper/ultra should be able to deal w/ templar/stalker/tempest -> ultras to tank -> vipers to pull back tempest -> hydras clean up tempest and just keep replenishing from there. You had the bank.

Edit: You seemed like you tried to do that, but corruptors get destroyed by void rays now, try hydra instead of corruptor mixed with vipers in that ultra/swarm host composition and see if that helps.
G4MR | I mod day9, djwheat and GLHF's stream
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
February 21 2013 12:57 GMT
#494
On February 21 2013 05:57 rustypipe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 20 2013 08:41 Musicus wrote:
On February 20 2013 01:42 rustypipe wrote:
On February 19 2013 22:59 Ramiz1989 wrote:
On February 19 2013 20:07 reapsen wrote:
Has anyone found a hellbat-safe opening that transitions well into 3base muta?

I either end up with way to many roaches from 2 bases, that delay my muta production waaay to much. So much that it isn't even worth going mutas at all.

Or i have a very weak zergling + spinecrawler defense, that can safe a lot of gas for sure, but is very risky to die against a hellbat+marine push (or drop).

Didn't try it, but maybe open with Banelings instead of Roaches? Hellbats still take extra damage from Banelings, same as Marines, since they are all light. So you can go as you described, Lings and Spine Crawlers, but add a bit of Banelings in the mix, and you can always add more if you scout the timing attack.


I've managed to handle this with lings / banes / and spines with good creep spread. Also I've been setting up a trap where I leave enough space for their 6-8 hellions to run into my base just to get surrounded by lings / banes. Most Terran can't pass up this good opportunity and shoot for it. After the early stages I tech switch to muta to drop tank / hellbat numbers and horras as I secure a 4th and transition into swarm hosts. Swarm hosts can handle mech well as long as siege numbers are not in huge numbers. With the last transition into viper / Ultra to help pull thors and tank into locus. Its been working pretty well for the most part, still working out the exact timings tho.

I find this transition better for a few reasons.

1.) Roach hydra is very good and strong in the mid game, however you have little way to reduce tank numbers if the Terran are smart, and you have little to no way to horass other then drops. Without reduction of tank numbers the end game gets ugly as a good terran will mix in a few ravens and thors with 7+ seige. The Ravens prevent hydra's from shooting cutting out a LARGE number of your DPS while siege rape your roach hydra line.

2.) If you upgrade your melee and carapace with the plan to finally transition into Ultra I find it gives more tech switch abilities. For instance since your muta will be forcing turrets and droping hellbat / tank numbers locus and ultra will be more effective in the final switch. Plus if you see the terran is going no vikings because he doesn't think a BL switch will happen you can quickly transition into Broodlords and your broodlings are 3-3 cracklings to help reduce tank numbers or break Terran defensive lines, then switch back to a ling bane ultra or whatever other composition is required. I've even had games where I had broodlord, swarmhost, ling ultra to clean up the last wave of terran units which worked out well because I was spawning a sick amount of free units

I find this effective because vs Mech there is no 1 unit composition answer per say, its about constant trading and tech switching to have the best unit composition to match his at the time. Hope this helps



Would you mind sharing a replay? I need to completely relearn zvt and your style sounds very cool.


Sure thing, when I get home today I'll try and post a replay for you. If you play on the NA server at all let me know and I can do some custom games with people and show you.

I've also been playing around with Ling, Bane > into Swarm hosts > Into Ultra Viper or other transitions when facing mech. This was due to a game where the terran went heavy mines and kept killing all my muta / lings with them. The Swarm Hosts where used specifically to just contain while I took 4th/5th and teched to ultra and other transitions required to prevent his 4th.




Sounds good, thanks. Doing games on NA should be no problem with global play too .
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
Merikh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States918 Posts
February 22 2013 09:55 GMT
#495
Alright I'm struggling, ZvT. Anyone have any replays of terrans going mech, taking little to no damage while taking their fourth and how to deal with that mid to late game situation as a zerg when they start transitioning into skyterran? Is there a way to deal with this before bc's?

The siege tanks and widow mines that support this makes it so difficult to engage. Vipers seem difficult to use when vikings are in play and PDD vs zerg is just .

I would love to check out some replays of Z v Mech where the game goes past 30 minutes.
G4MR | I mod day9, djwheat and GLHF's stream
ThePastor
Profile Joined February 2012
New Zealand380 Posts
February 22 2013 19:40 GMT
#496
On February 22 2013 18:55 Merikh wrote:
Alright I'm struggling, ZvT. Anyone have any replays of terrans going mech, taking little to no damage while taking their fourth and how to deal with that mid to late game situation as a zerg when they start transitioning into skyterran? Is there a way to deal with this before bc's?

The siege tanks and widow mines that support this makes it so difficult to engage. Vipers seem difficult to use when vikings are in play and PDD vs zerg is just .

I would love to check out some replays of Z v Mech where the game goes past 30 minutes.


I have zero replays going past 30 minutes sorry, but I find the best plan is to kill them before they get to that death ball. Generally, when I see a meching player (which I scout with early O/l speed) I will drone like a beast up to 4 base saturation asap. Upgrading roach/hydra 1+/1+. Get drops and go for a huge drop if they don't move out. As soon as the drop finishes I remax on mutas, generally at this stage they are building zero thors because of all the ground force they are dealing with. When doing the drop make sure you try to target any thors you see. After muta ball switch back again into roach/hydra if needed but tbh, all of my mech games I destroy them with this tactic.

Here are two replays of me doing this strat, one of which is against a GM (if I remember correctly).

http://drop.sc/306400
http://drop.sc/306399
Neverblink
Profile Joined August 2012
United States31 Posts
February 22 2013 23:35 GMT
#497
On February 22 2013 18:55 Merikh wrote:
Alright I'm struggling, ZvT. Anyone have any replays of terrans going mech, taking little to no damage while taking their fourth and how to deal with that mid to late game situation as a zerg when they start transitioning into skyterran? Is there a way to deal with this before bc's?

The siege tanks and widow mines that support this makes it so difficult to engage. Vipers seem difficult to use when vikings are in play and PDD vs zerg is just .

I would love to check out some replays of Z v Mech where the game goes past 30 minutes.




Terran is played the same way throughout and I will not switch until a better method is found.

Corrupter/Hydralisk/Viper/Ling/Speed Bane's/Oversteer's

Very micro intensive.


Vs. Mech
Corrupter/Hydralisks/Oversteer will push the Viking's back and snipe mines (Hot key together, if you need to)
Viper's move in with a quick blinding cloud on tanks
Speed Banes vs Hellbats

When they get SkyTerran going..Corrupters with Infestors tends to work. Just make sure you position your battles well & his army is very immobile if it has Battle Cruisers. Ultralisks attacking his lines would delay his push.
learning88
Profile Joined April 2005
United States160 Posts
February 23 2013 03:47 GMT
#498
Well since we're switching over from WoL to HotS, I was wondering how do the opening builds differ from the 2 games?

So far:

ZvT (4 queen)
15 hatch
16 pool
2 queens
2 queens
@ ~5:00 double gas
take 3rd when minerals are available
upgrade: ling speed, lair, 1/1

ZvP
14 pool
16 hatch
21 hatch
@ 6:00 double gas
@ 7:00 evo + roach

ZvZ
15 pool
16 hatch
15 ovie
15 gas
-iNko
Profile Joined August 2010
Lithuania160 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-23 10:14:58
February 23 2013 10:12 GMT
#499
What am i supposed to max out on vs very late game t or p? Anything i throw at lategame t or p just melts doing barely any damage. I end up leaving games with 10k or more resources banked, having all tech paths all upgrades but anything i build just gets destroyed.. I feel like i just have to do some lame aggression with t1/t2 units and end the game there before it gets to late game..
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
February 23 2013 10:47 GMT
#500
On February 23 2013 19:12 -iNko wrote:
What am i supposed to max out on vs very late game t or p? Anything i throw at lategame t or p just melts doing barely any damage. I end up leaving games with 10k or more resources banked, having all tech paths all upgrades but anything i build just gets destroyed.. I feel like i just have to do some lame aggression with t1/t2 units and end the game there before it gets to late game..

Right now, every Zerg I see plays almost the same in the late game. 5-6 Ultras, a lot of Zerglings and Banelings, with few Vipers and ~10 Infestors. If he has committed a bit more to the Air(mixing Air and ground), you can add more Hydras and less Infestors. I barely see people using Brood Lords these days(to some effect), but you have to be able to re-max. Zerg is a lot more like in the Brood War days, where you aren't using the Deathball, but a tons of cheaper units(except the Ultras), where you throw them at the enemy to be able to deal damage, and then try to re-max.

About Skytoss, you can't really do much. :/
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
Prev 1 23 24 25 26 27 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
11:00
#43
WardiTV228
OGKoka 182
Rex96
CranKy Ducklings26
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
OGKoka 182
Lowko154
RotterdaM 102
Rex 90
Harstem 90
Creator 59
IndyStarCraft 11
StarCraft: Brood War
Jaedong 1074
Flash 1043
Pusan 512
Hyuk 498
Soma 473
Stork 374
Larva 357
Soulkey 208
Sharp 168
actioN 161
[ Show more ]
Bisu 149
Snow 126
EffOrt 119
ZerO 119
sSak 71
sorry 45
Mind 44
JulyZerg 42
Aegong 34
Free 29
yabsab 26
zelot 25
Shine 24
Barracks 13
GoRush 13
HiyA 13
Icarus 13
hero 11
Movie 10
IntoTheRainbow 9
Sea.KH 6
ivOry 5
Dota 2
qojqva856
XcaliburYe610
XaKoH 572
syndereN364
League of Legends
singsing1506
rGuardiaN53
Counter-Strike
x6flipin510
allub137
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King254
Other Games
Happy307
Pyrionflax290
crisheroes279
B2W.Neo215
SortOf160
ZerO(Twitch)18
ArmadaUGS10
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick29062
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2215
Other Games
• WagamamaTV197
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
12h 47m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
22h 47m
WardiTV European League
1d 4h
MaNa vs sebesdes
Mixu vs Fjant
ByuN vs HeRoMaRinE
ShoWTimE vs goblin
Gerald vs Babymarine
Krystianer vs YoungYakov
PiGosaur Monday
1d 12h
The PondCast
1d 22h
WardiTV European League
2 days
Jumy vs NightPhoenix
Percival vs Nicoract
ArT vs HiGhDrA
MaxPax vs Harstem
Scarlett vs Shameless
SKillous vs uThermal
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs Reynor
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
3 days
Classic vs Cure
FEL
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
FEL
5 days
FEL
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
FEL
6 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Season 20
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.