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On February 15 2013 01:56 OneObsession wrote:
Hey, i don't see any way to play ling bling mutalisks in zvt anymore and i hate it -.- Hellbat too strong :DD
Do you guys have the same problem with playing ling heavy in zvt?
if they have hellbats then there probably going mech in which case you want roach/hydra/viper
if thy go pure bio (imo the stronger army) then ling/bling/muta still works fine
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On February 15 2013 02:40 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 01:56 OneObsession wrote:
Hey, i don't see any way to play ling bling mutalisks in zvt anymore and i hate it -.- Hellbat too strong :DD
Do you guys have the same problem with playing ling heavy in zvt? if they have hellbats then there probably going mech in which case you want roach/hydra/viper if thy go pure bio (imo the stronger army) then ling/bling/muta still works fine
Yes this is mostly the case. In WoL you used to be able to go for Muta fairly blindly, but I don't suggest this anymore. You should only go Muta on a tech switch after scouting the enemy to make sure they would work and don't have defenses setup, or that they are going heavy bio + hellbats. You know Hellbats are still light units, right? In this case you can blow them the hell up with Banelings, just make sure you get Baneling speed trained.
Otherwise go Roach/Hydra/Viper. Especially if you see they are mech you typically want Roach/Hydra/Viper.
If you see they start massing tanks instead of going tank heavy, you have two options. You can either get Overlord Drops if you have Overlord Speed researched already, and drop some blings/roaches on top of the tanks. Or if you have the time you can try to tech to Broodlords and it will become a micro battle where you have to make sure you blind all thors and focus fire them with ground units while taking out the Tanks with the BL.
But Roach/Hydra/Viper is a much stronger "base" composition in HotS than it was in WoL. Muta - while performed well can do some huge damage - has many more weaknesses and longer tech switches if you need to get out of it. You need to play a bit more wisely if you want to use Mutas now, even with their buffs.
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On February 15 2013 03:27 Spyridon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 02:40 Forikorder wrote:On February 15 2013 01:56 OneObsession wrote:
Hey, i don't see any way to play ling bling mutalisks in zvt anymore and i hate it -.- Hellbat too strong :DD
Do you guys have the same problem with playing ling heavy in zvt? if they have hellbats then there probably going mech in which case you want roach/hydra/viper if thy go pure bio (imo the stronger army) then ling/bling/muta still works fine Yes this is mostly the case. In WoL you used to be able to go for Muta fairly blindly, but I don't suggest this anymore. You should only go Muta on a tech switch after scouting the enemy to make sure they would work and don't have defenses setup, or that they are going heavy bio + hellbats. You know Hellbats are still light units, right? In this case you can blow them the hell up with Banelings, just make sure you get Baneling speed trained. Otherwise go Roach/Hydra/Viper. Especially if you see they are mech you typically want Roach/Hydra/Viper. If you see they start massing tanks instead of going tank heavy, you have two options. You can either get Overlord Drops if you have Overlord Speed researched already, and drop some blings/roaches on top of the tanks. Or if you have the time you can try to tech to Broodlords and it will become a micro battle where you have to make sure you blind all thors and focus fire them with ground units while taking out the Tanks with the BL. But Roach/Hydra/Viper is a much stronger "base" composition in HotS than it was in WoL. Muta - while performed well can do some huge damage - has many more weaknesses and longer tech switches if you need to get out of it. You need to play a bit more wisely if you want to use Mutas now, even with their buffs.
so sad that lings are kinda useless in zvt T.T
and i miss my muta ling bling play in wol i mean it was dynamic and mobil and more of a micro battle vs terran
now it is just mass roach xD
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On February 15 2013 04:39 OneObsession wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 03:27 Spyridon wrote:On February 15 2013 02:40 Forikorder wrote:On February 15 2013 01:56 OneObsession wrote:
Hey, i don't see any way to play ling bling mutalisks in zvt anymore and i hate it -.- Hellbat too strong :DD
Do you guys have the same problem with playing ling heavy in zvt? if they have hellbats then there probably going mech in which case you want roach/hydra/viper if thy go pure bio (imo the stronger army) then ling/bling/muta still works fine Yes this is mostly the case. In WoL you used to be able to go for Muta fairly blindly, but I don't suggest this anymore. You should only go Muta on a tech switch after scouting the enemy to make sure they would work and don't have defenses setup, or that they are going heavy bio + hellbats. You know Hellbats are still light units, right? In this case you can blow them the hell up with Banelings, just make sure you get Baneling speed trained. Otherwise go Roach/Hydra/Viper. Especially if you see they are mech you typically want Roach/Hydra/Viper. If you see they start massing tanks instead of going tank heavy, you have two options. You can either get Overlord Drops if you have Overlord Speed researched already, and drop some blings/roaches on top of the tanks. Or if you have the time you can try to tech to Broodlords and it will become a micro battle where you have to make sure you blind all thors and focus fire them with ground units while taking out the Tanks with the BL. But Roach/Hydra/Viper is a much stronger "base" composition in HotS than it was in WoL. Muta - while performed well can do some huge damage - has many more weaknesses and longer tech switches if you need to get out of it. You need to play a bit more wisely if you want to use Mutas now, even with their buffs. so sad that lings are kinda useless in zvt T.T and i miss my muta ling bling play in wol i mean it was dynamic and mobil and more of a micro battle vs terran now it is just mass roach xD
They aren't useless, but they definitely arent the go-to unit at all times.
They are still really strong if you use them in the right situations. Even if they go Hellbats, remember they are some of the less mobile units, so that makes the enemy more vulnerable to runbys.
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it is not just that hellbats hard counter lings also the widow mines hard counter lings and perhaps mutas i dont know for sure
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On February 15 2013 04:51 OneObsession wrote:
it is not just that hellbats hard counter lings also the widow mines hard counter lings and perhaps mutas i dont know for sure
You are right. Going pure lings you will die to certain timings because lings absolutely blow zvt if there are hellbats/widow mines. You definitely need roaches out and what not or you will just die to simple bio + some hellbat pushes.
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On February 15 2013 05:02 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 04:51 OneObsession wrote:
it is not just that hellbats hard counter lings also the widow mines hard counter lings and perhaps mutas i dont know for sure You are right. Going pure lings you will die to certain timings because lings absolutely blow zvt if there are hellbats/widow mines. You definitely need roaches out and what not or you will just die to simple bio + some hellbat pushes.
Banelings completely demolish both the units you mentioned, don't forget that, while Lings are weaker, Banelings are much more powerful if they are using the new units.
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On February 15 2013 09:07 Spyridon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 05:02 blade55555 wrote:On February 15 2013 04:51 OneObsession wrote:
it is not just that hellbats hard counter lings also the widow mines hard counter lings and perhaps mutas i dont know for sure You are right. Going pure lings you will die to certain timings because lings absolutely blow zvt if there are hellbats/widow mines. You definitely need roaches out and what not or you will just die to simple bio + some hellbat pushes. Banelings completely demolish both the units you mentioned, don't forget that, while Lings are weaker, Banelings are much more powerful if they are using the new units.
Banelings get 1 shot by widow mines dude, and hellbats have fairly big unit size and if the terran does some good splitting then banelings are EXTREMELY cost inefficient.
But you were probably being sarcastic, or you havent played HotS ZvT yet.
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On February 15 2013 09:18 PaperPrinter wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 09:07 Spyridon wrote:On February 15 2013 05:02 blade55555 wrote:On February 15 2013 04:51 OneObsession wrote:
it is not just that hellbats hard counter lings also the widow mines hard counter lings and perhaps mutas i dont know for sure You are right. Going pure lings you will die to certain timings because lings absolutely blow zvt if there are hellbats/widow mines. You definitely need roaches out and what not or you will just die to simple bio + some hellbat pushes. Banelings completely demolish both the units you mentioned, don't forget that, while Lings are weaker, Banelings are much more powerful if they are using the new units. Banelings get 1 shot by widow mines dude, and hellbats have fairly big unit size and if the terran does some good splitting then banelings are EXTREMELY cost inefficient. But you were probably being sarcastic, or you havent played HotS ZvT yet.
Not being sarcastic, and been playing HotS for awhile.
Banelings w/ speed blow up Widows (assuming you have detection) before they trigger, and they work very well on Hellbats. You just need bane speed and its a massacre.
I've been using Bane/Roach/Hydra as a core early-mid composition and It's not a problem until they start reaching critical mass of tanks.
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is this true? if I have detection I can just roll banelings over the mines and they wont have time to detonate? Because I was having alot of trouble engaging a bio army with more than a handful of mines mixed in and was wondering what the correct response was.
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United States1176 Posts
On February 15 2013 10:33 ultrakiss wrote:
is this true? if I have detection I can just roll banelings over the mines and they wont have time to detonate? Because I was having alot of trouble engaging a bio army with more than a handful of mines mixed in and was wondering what the correct response was.
Three banes kill a window mine. Off creep, a bane will touch a widow mine right as the mine fires its missile. You can get the mine before the missile fires if you manually detonate the bane. On creep, the bane will pop the widow mine before it can fire.
In practice, heavy bane play is nice in that even if the widow mine pops, you're at least guaranteed to kill the mines as the banes will get on top of them before they die.
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Does anybody here scout the Terran's base to see if he's still running a reactor factory?
I can't count how many times I've seen zergs go pure roach / hydra vs bio and then die in a fire because they can't defend their creep and their base, and then can't fight the army because they have marauders. Honestly, you need gas units more than ever to defend against millennium medivacs, and mine splash works both ways if you flank instead of just a-moving a glob of lings head-on.
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On February 15 2013 14:02 Ooshmagoosh wrote:
Does anybody here scout the Terran's base to see if he's still running a reactor factory?
I can't count how many times I've seen zergs go pure roach / hydra vs bio and then die in a fire because they can't defend their creep and their base, and then can't fight the army because they have marauders. Honestly, you need gas units more than ever to defend against millennium medivacs, and mine splash works both ways if you flank instead of just a-moving a glob of lings head-on.
I've fit Overlord speed in my build order most the time lately, and it's actually working out quite a bit better than I expected. I end up going Roach/Hydra/Bane, and with that combo you have time to prepare and counter nearly any aggression that comes at you in the early game, as long as you don't let yourself get out macroed.
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In HotS it seems I cant select my larvae individually, for instance to hotkey them before building something or do use the one closest to a mineral platch. I can only select eggs and hotkey them. This is different from in WoL. Have no idea why it was changed, it's annoying.
Does anybody know if I can turn this off?
I have already turned of "can't select enemy units" etc but it does not effect larvae selection.
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On February 16 2013 04:10 LoveTool wrote:
In HotS it seems I cant select my larvae individually, for instance to hotkey them before building something or do use the one closest to a mineral platch. I can only select eggs and hotkey them. This is different from in WoL. Have no idea why it was changed, it's annoying.
Does anybody know if I can turn this off?
I have already turned of "can't select enemy units" etc but it does not effect larvae selection.
Go to options there is one option about selecting individual larva or not.
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Haven't tried using banes against mines but won't the splash make them really ineffective? Even I kill the mine and some marines or firebats won't the splash from the mines be even worse than tanks? banelings will probably still be a main unit in ZvT but good mine placement will make them hard to micro... Might be good in the end that Zerg gets more micro.
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What is the Ideal late game (20min+) unit composition for ZvZ? I know it used to be Roach/ Hydra/ Infestor, but with the addition of the new units, would it affect it at all?
I ask because I have started to use Catz's Queen + SH + Nydus push... But then i just have no clue where to go from there!
Cheers TL!
~Dizzy
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On February 17 2013 10:42 Dizzywitch wrote:
What is the Ideal late game (20min+) unit composition for ZvZ? I know it used to be Roach/ Hydra/ Infestor, but with the addition of the new units, would it affect it at all?
I ask because I have started to use Catz's Queen + SH + Nydus push... But then i just have no clue where to go from there!
Cheers TL!
~Dizzy
its mutas mutas and more mutas
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I have only gotten to to super lategame in ZvZ once so far but I think you should aim ultra/queen/muta or brood. If you can get air superiority you can start getting some broods. The match up is very fragile right now, you can make huge swings in army composition after close battles and go at your opponent wit a air superiority or army superiority and just ignore the air for a short time. What I feel is the most important right now is to establish mapcontroll with multitasking no matter what army style you go for. keep your enemy contained and keep eyes all over the map so you don't miss any counter attacks as it will be a war for expansions. It is a very hard to straight up kill your opponent in ZvZ you have to out live him.
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On February 17 2013 14:16 Zerum wrote:
I have only gotten to to super lategame in ZvZ once so far but I think you should aim ultra/queen/muta or brood. If you can get air superiority you can start getting some broods. The match up is very fragile right now, you can make huge swings in army composition after close battles and go at your opponent wit a air superiority or army superiority and just ignore the air for a short time. What I feel is the most important right now is to establish mapcontroll with multitasking no matter what army style you go for. keep your enemy contained and keep eyes all over the map so you don't miss any counter attacks as it will be a war for expansions. It is a very hard to straight up kill your opponent in ZvZ you have to out live him.
The last 2 lategame ZvZ's I've had ended with my opponent going Ultras, and me getting Broodlords out just in the nick of time, at which he didn't have time to tech switch to take them out before they slowly moved over his base.
It does seem to get to late game easier though. Mutas haven't been as efficient either, 2 Spores cover the harass perfectly, and by the time they reach critical mass you can just push their base with Hydras and they will be forced to defend.
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EPT
