On December 13 2012 06:52 WGT-Baal wrote: For me, the problem lies more with ZvT once T gets one three bases and attacks with thors/hellbats/vikings and a couple banshees all with 3 3 upgrades obviously
I tried multi drops, ling runbys, muta harass but I always seem to die in the end. My BL and viper die in a matter of seconds against 3 3 vikings and if I go ultra vs thors it s usually not pretty.
I havent tried many hydras based builds though. Any hints on a late game army composition I d like to have against that particular T army?
Um if he's going mech roach/hydra/viper is really strong vs that composition. Mutas are just going to get crushed and yeah. VS mech do roach/hydra/viper a lot stronger then going bl's to ^_^.
blade? you do blinding cloud? so i think you go hydra heavy (since roaches are "not that optimal" cause they must go under the cloud also). how can you afford a big hydra army combined with 3-4 vipers vs a 200 mech army? you need 8-10 gas asap?
how you can protect your gas expos, since 3-4 bf battle hellions can kill all your drones, even you protect them with 3-5! spine crawlers?
On December 13 2012 10:23 tzui wrote: blade? you do blinding cloud? so i think you go hydra heavy (since roaches are "not that optimal" cause they must go under the cloud also). how can you afford a big hydra army combined with 3-4 vipers vs a 200 mech army? you need 8-10 gas asap?
how you can protect your gas expos, since 3-4 bf battle hellions can kill all your drones, even you protect them with 3-5! spine crawlers?
You want some roaches trust me their a good meat shield and yes I do blinding cloud.
Out of the many games I have played vs mech I have only lost 2, and I have played mech at least 20+ times.
Have to put spines in all bases, sure they still kill most of the drones but if you can split or burrow sometimes you get lucky and they don't realize it and you lose none.
I was able to kill 4th base more than once, In addition I had 4 Bases of my own, Plus I held the 5th and 6th bases. Turtling till BC production is possible, I ended up facing this compition. Raven, Viking, BC, thor, tank.
My air upgrades are 3-2 which are pretty good for upgrading 3/3 melee and armour. But still i'm easily matched. I don't even know where to begin.
Blade, is it just me or are bio based comps insanely good at this point? I haven't run into any good terrans yet but I find infestors useless and I'm not convinced mutas are worth it vs mines even with good control.
-The medivac upgrade makes lings worse in fights -Drops are faster or can escape from mutas after picking up -Reaper openings are better -As said above, infestors are terrible -Simply moving mutas around the map becomes a risk with the threat of mines -You need an overseer to travel with mutas, which slows down muta harass -If you don't check first with an overseer you have to harass with spread mutas, meaning much lower dps on a single target -I don't find swarm hosts particularly good against bio and you don't have a way to shut down medivacs -Hellbats are immortal vs lings
I'm also not sure what you want for a late game comp with infestor bl being so much worse. Ultras are much better vs marines and vipers are okay in some situations, but vipers still don't feel very reliable unless they're very heavy on tanks and have them clumped and I don't see the broolord techswitch being anywhere near as good.
I've been considering opening ling/bane/hydra into quick hive but I haven't tried it yet.
I do also have big problems with Terran since the last patch. Formerly my best matchup (even before BL/Infestor) it transitioned into my worst MU.
Those mech compositions are shredding my Roach/Hydra/Ling (+Viper) very fast, especially if there are some Vikings mixed in. Blinding Cloud helps but in most cases it is just of small use. The only time i can really beat mech is when I do some Nydus/Drop all-in and catch him off-guard.
Bio seems also pretty strong with the new Medivac. I haven't played against a lot of Bio thus far but when I face pure Bio it is pretty hard to face the better healing and also pretty hard to use Infestors properly which I think should be the exact counter to Bio.
Now I'll watch the guide and see if I can improve.
On December 13 2012 10:23 tzui wrote: blade? you do blinding cloud? so i think you go hydra heavy (since roaches are "not that optimal" cause they must go under the cloud also). how can you afford a big hydra army combined with 3-4 vipers vs a 200 mech army? you need 8-10 gas asap?
how you can protect your gas expos, since 3-4 bf battle hellions can kill all your drones, even you protect them with 3-5! spine crawlers?
You want some roaches trust me their a good meat shield and yes I do blinding cloud.
Out of the many games I have played vs mech I have only lost 2, and I have played mech at least 20+ times.
Have to put spines in all bases, sure they still kill most of the drones but if you can split or burrow sometimes you get lucky and they don't realize it and you lose none.
Blinding cloud DEMOLISHES tanks. It's hilarious how places where normally a defensive tank formation would be super hard to break becomes nothing to your hydras.
I should enjoy this before terrans start blindly making vikings in beta.
Can someone tell me what should i do if toss is going mass air, not oracles this time, just massing tempests , carriers and void rays. Because if i go hydra, that dies, if i go corruptor the void rays and carriers kill them. I even killed a toss's third and still couldn't win. I had so much money, why hydras, corruptors died i made 14 infestors, still didnt work.
What's good vs mine heavy mech with the mine upgrade that makes them instant burrow? Like say the T has some thors/battle helions, maybe a few tanks, and like 10+ mines with their army. Say if they go to engage with mines unburrowed then run them into your army and do the instant burrow by your roach/hydra.
On December 14 2012 08:31 hunts wrote: What's good vs mine heavy mech with the mine upgrade that makes them instant burrow? Like say the T has some thors/battle helions, maybe a few tanks, and like 10+ mines with their army. Say if they go to engage with mines unburrowed then run them into your army and do the instant burrow by your roach/hydra.
roach/hydra/viper is still the answer to it. Just have to be careful with your units, run them away, spread them, have overseers with you at all times.
On December 14 2012 04:31 phrenzy wrote: Can someone tell me what should i do if toss is going mass air, not oracles this time, just massing tempests , carriers and void rays. Because if i go hydra, that dies, if i go corruptor the void rays and carriers kill them. I even killed a toss's third and still couldn't win. I had so much money, why hydras, corruptors died i made 14 infestors, still didnt work.
Or is the answer there is nothing yet?
You should first off not let him get that composition if at all possible. Being aggressive with roach/hydra/viper and making sure not to give him the time to get that composition is key. You do need corruptors for the carriers and hydras for the void rays so if he's getting that composition and he's getting it in mass you can not kill it. You are dead now that void rays crush corruptors hardcore now.
So you have to prevent it by never letting him get that composition in mass.
Cheers blade, I was thinking that might be the answer. I don't feel very confident walking around with roaches and hydras, a few vipers. I seen that cool guide you did on ZvT, you lose your vipers a few times but after they did their damage, i lose them for free most of the time.
do you guys have a good and viable strat vs bio? i literally tried everything but well...medivac speedboost + new healing is just OP right now, especially since infestor has become a useless unit. they just can mass drop you everywhere, are now nearly invincible if they are behind a mineral line and if you have enough to defend they pick up, use boost and are gone. so basically T is now able to lets say 90% riskfree drops AND if you force a fight the new medivacs in combination with the sucky infestor makes bio not only incredibly awesome at harrassing but also in a fight.
would be very welcome if somebody got a viable standard strat vs bio.
Versus bio there are two compositions that seem to work for me. The first is ling/bane/muta and at hive add ultras+viper. The second is ling/bane/hydra and add ultras+viper at hive tech. I personally like muta better since it also scares the terran so they might not drop as much.
On December 15 2012 21:34 Decendos wrote: do you guys have a good and viable strat vs bio? i literally tried everything but well...medivac speedboost + new healing is just OP right now, especially since infestor has become a useless unit. they just can mass drop you everywhere, are now nearly invincible if they are behind a mineral line and if you have enough to defend they pick up, use boost and are gone. so basically T is now able to lets say 90% riskfree drops AND if you force a fight the new medivacs in combination with the sucky infestor makes bio not only incredibly awesome at harrassing but also in a fight.
would be very welcome if somebody got a viable standard strat vs bio.
Well I am currently trying to go mutalisk in zvt but tbh I think I am having mixed results.
So far I am having the most success with roach/ling/bane and starting hive at 10:45 - 11 minutes (pretty much as soon as infestation pit finishes). Then I go into ultra/ling/bane/viper with a few hydras to kill medivacs.
To deal with drop play I have some static D at bases and at my main I will leave a group of ling/bane as well. This is what I have the best results with at the moment.
EPT
