EPTAlso when I go viper I see a lot more people using blinding cloud than abduct, when do I use each? I'm guessing abduct vs. protoss, cloud vs. terran since abducting colossi smashes forcefields and protoss doesn't have long range air aoe.
The (HotS) Zerg Help Me Thread Beta - Page 7
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strobeLite
United States37 Posts
Also when I go viper I see a lot more people using blinding cloud than abduct, when do I use each? I'm guessing abduct vs. protoss, cloud vs. terran since abducting colossi smashes forcefields and protoss doesn't have long range air aoe. | ||
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Decendos
Germany1338 Posts
On December 16 2012 07:23 blade55555 wrote: Well I am currently trying to go mutalisk in zvt but tbh I think I am having mixed results. So far I am having the most success with roach/ling/bane and starting hive at 10:45 - 11 minutes (pretty much as soon as infestation pit finishes). Then I go into ultra/ling/bane/viper with a few hydras to kill medivacs. To deal with drop play I have some static D at bases and at my main I will leave a group of ling/bane as well. This is what I have the best results with at the moment. thanks. i had the "best" results so far with ling bling hydra into ling bling viper hydra ultra now. but "best" is not really good because if he microes well i still have the feeling that its completely impossible to deal with the new MMM in a halfway efficient way. mutas are a complete waste in ZvT imo though. you said kill medivacs with hydras. well i know you play at very high level but i think then T start to pull their medivacs back (which is very easy now thx to speedboost) the medivaccount gets out of hand very fast. and thats where i think Z has nothing to deal with once T reaches 10+ of the supervacs. | ||
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Azoryen
Portugal242 Posts
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Azoryen
Portugal242 Posts
On December 14 2012 08:53 blade55555 wrote: You should first off not let him get that composition if at all possible. Being aggressive with roach/hydra/viper and making sure not to give him the time to get that composition is key. You do need corruptors for the carriers and hydras for the void rays so if he's getting that composition and he's getting it in mass you can not kill it. You are dead now that void rays crush corruptors hardcore now. So you have to prevent it by never letting him get that composition in mass. How do you feel about this kind of game flow? I hate lategame invincible maxed compositions, I think Blizzard should have learned from broodlord/infestor that they ruin game flow by giving both sides obvious game plans from which you can't really escape. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On December 17 2012 05:34 Azoryen wrote: How do you feel about this kind of game flow? I hate lategame invincible maxed compositions, I think Blizzard should have learned from broodlord/infestor that they ruin game flow by giving both sides obvious game plans from which you can't really escape. It's dumb, but it's also hard to avoid for the most part. Even in BW protoss could eventually get this unkillable army, but it was way way harder to get in bw and I think it may have stopped being the strongest, I can't remember, but I know it wasn't very common like in sc2 pvz where deathballs are normal. I hope if it does end up being to powerful that blizzard will balance it, but as of right now it is very possible to stop protoss from ever getting that composition due to everything not being figured out. | ||
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PineapplePizza
United States749 Posts
I don't see how you're supposed to handle lategame 3/3 cadaceus reactor bio without chain fungals, yet people are theorycrafting using shit like hydras. Does nobody here know what happened in the WoL beta? Zergs stopped using roach/hydra because of MMM, and the viper is not going to make that army any easier to fight. | ||
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Azoryen
Portugal242 Posts
On December 17 2012 07:15 Ooshmagoosh wrote: Does nobody here use infestors anymore? They still look incredibly strong, except you can't use more than 10, since IT's don't scale, and their eggs are easy to destroy. I don't see how you're supposed to handle lategame 3/3 cadaceus reactor bio without chain fungals, yet people are theorycrafting using shit like hydras. Does nobody here know what happened in the WoL beta? Zergs stopped using roach/hydra because of MMM, and the viper is not going to make that army any easier to fight. Under usage is a natural reaction to a nerf and so is over usage after a buff. However, if hydras ever get more widely use than infestors, then the hydra den should be the requirement for hive. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
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Azoryen
Portugal242 Posts
Blizzard already got rid of ramp blocks by introducing unbuildable plates. I believe the next step is to do something about natural blocks, and I have a small suggestion that could take care of that: 1) place unbuildable rocks at naturals 2) make those unbuildable rocks removable when you put down a CC/nexus/hatch (assume they get burried under the the structure). SC2 has become a game where Fast Expands are the standard openings for every race in every MU. Imo, this makes the natural almost a right the players have that shouldn't be so easily denied/delayed. | ||
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Tif
Germany19 Posts
On December 16 2012 07:23 blade55555 wrote: Well I am currently trying to go mutalisk in zvt but tbh I think I am having mixed results. So far I am having the most success with roach/ling/bane and starting hive at 10:45 - 11 minutes (pretty much as soon as infestation pit finishes). Then I go into ultra/ling/bane/viper with a few hydras to kill medivacs. To deal with drop play I have some static D at bases and at my main I will leave a group of ling/bane as well. This is what I have the best results with at the moment. I´m also struggling agains mass bio + new Medivac.I think the bigest problem is that a good T player can out micro most unit combination. I also had the most success with Ultra, hydra, ling/bling and a few infestor to hold the bio down. But hiting the fungle agains a good player is realy realy realy hard. I also tried to use Viper instad of Infestors. But I think that they only work if you can somehow force a engagment and i duno how to do that on a big map. I mean, it is not like the bio will keep staying under the cloud and the Viper energy is limited. | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
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tzui
Germany60 Posts
On December 17 2012 18:21 Tif wrote: I also tried to use Viper instad of Infestors. But I think that they only work if you can somehow force a engagment and i duno how to do that on a big map. I mean, it is not like the bio will keep staying under the cloud and the Viper energy is limited. on open space you crush terra bio anyway with ultra ling bling, blinding cloud ist for this ugly narrow chokes where clunky ultras bugged to death | ||
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Tif
Germany19 Posts
On December 17 2012 20:24 tzui wrote: on open space you crush terra bio anyway with ultra ling bling, blinding cloud ist for this ugly narrow chokes where clunky ultras bugged to death First of big maps do not necessarily mean open space. I do not see how you "crush" a terran bio army with this combo on open field. If T kit micro is good he ca trade quiet efficent for a long time and trade quiet efficent this way. If you get a suround (what is hard to do and quiet often related to a mistake on the terran side) or terran sees that he is on a disadvantage and just needs to lift up und "boostaway". I do not think that you can engage the new medivac without some anti air, thats why most people try out Hydralisks. In my opinion you also need some high dps/splash dmg units in order to beat the high medivac regeneration which are namely: Infestor, Baneling, Hydralisk, Ultralisk. | ||
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Azoryen
Portugal242 Posts
This could save apm from adding eggs to hotkeys, but if you have mutas or infestors in a separate hotkey, you often have to give them a different command after using the global hotkey. Not sure if it's worth it. | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On December 17 2012 20:06 [F_]aths wrote: Blade, I watched the stream the day you played 5 Hots zvz in a row and saw that you like to open hatch-first. How do you defend a ling all-in? ling/bane myself if he does 14/14 ling/bane all in you just make a spine or 2, get baneling nest first and use queens. Just have to make sure you use your queens + lings to do it. | ||
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zergrushkekeke
Australia241 Posts
 In seriousness I'll try a queen and overlord planting a creep tumor next to a tower tonight and see if that works for vision. then you can deny unitless vision (creep blocking buildings) and force some detection too for watchtower control. Otherwise it feels too easy for T and P compared to Z, unless there is a gas geyser at each tower. | ||
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tzui
Germany60 Posts
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nomyx
United States2205 Posts
On December 17 2012 07:15 Ooshmagoosh wrote: Does nobody here use infestors anymore? They still look incredibly strong, except you can't use more than 10, since IT's don't scale, and their eggs are easy to destroy. I don't see how you're supposed to handle lategame 3/3 cadaceus reactor bio without chain fungals, yet people are theorycrafting using shit like hydras. Does nobody here know what happened in the WoL beta? Zergs stopped using roach/hydra because of MMM, and the viper is not going to make that army any easier to fight. Vipers can abduct and pick off medivacs, keeping the medivac's numbers down through out the entire game will be critical imo. | ||
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BigRedDog
461 Posts
On December 18 2012 12:31 tzui wrote: i wish units in patrol mode would not get selected, then you can patrol at watchtowers and vs drops in your mineral line and use F2 instead of str-1 | ||
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