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On October 27 2012 06:27 FortuneSyn wrote:
What do you guys think about swarm hosts in ZvZ? Ive dropped banelings on them when i encounter it, but almost nobody is going swarm host against me.
Maybe swarmhost could be useful as a stepping stone to ultras?
I've gone SH almost every zvz, I make a lot of queens and push out , reinforce with hydra/SH. Even when they maake roaches and do lots of counter attacks and do tons of damage I still just retain my SH count and win once I get set up in siege range. But, I think they could win with a decent roach army to do counters and buy time while rushing to broods.
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Are there viable builds as Terran to stop a 7 pool on Korhal City? I can't tell if I'm supposed to choose the good karma option and ignore the issue, or if I should choose the tough love option and 7 pool until terrans start using the first supply depot/barracks to sim-city their mineral lines vs early pools.
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is there any way to clean up some random placed mines in just a half decent way?
as i see it, i need to first send an overseer around the map, but babysit it so it does not fly into the mines. than i have to either build mutas/hyds only for killing mines, or i sacrifice lings in. and than i can kill them off with units.
so it is entirely impossible to use some automatic routine for it, like in bw? no waypoint stuff possible i guess, the overseer would just die...
to be honest i think it is a bad joke, the mines should not shoot overseers, and they should not outrange and 1 shot roaches... 
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On November 08 2012 07:16 Werezerg wrote:is there any way to clean up some random placed mines in just a half decent way? as i see it, i need to first send an overseer around the map, but babysit it so it does not fly into the mines. than i have to either build mutas/hyds only for killing mines, or i sacrifice lings in. and than i can kill them off with units. so it is entirely impossible to use some automatic routine for it, like in bw? no waypoint stuff possible i guess, the overseer would just die... to be honest i think it is a bad joke, the mines should not shoot overseers, and they should not outrange and 1 shot roaches...
Its not that big of a deal, just make a couple hydras to roam around and have an overseer follow them.
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On November 08 2012 07:58 rembrant wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 07:16 Werezerg wrote:is there any way to clean up some random placed mines in just a half decent way? as i see it, i need to first send an overseer around the map, but babysit it so it does not fly into the mines. than i have to either build mutas/hyds only for killing mines, or i sacrifice lings in. and than i can kill them off with units. so it is entirely impossible to use some automatic routine for it, like in bw? no waypoint stuff possible i guess, the overseer would just die... to be honest i think it is a bad joke, the mines should not shoot overseers, and they should not outrange and 1 shot roaches... Its not that big of a deal, just make a couple hydras to roam around and have an overseer follow them.
If I a-move a group of hydras with an overseer following will it kill the mine? Or does it require micro?
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Anyone want to practice some new ZvZ strats (mostly how to incorporate and counter swarm host)? I'm master in WoL and diamond in HotS atm. Send pm.
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On October 26 2012 08:48 TheGreenMachine wrote:Why does 3/3 air from double spiqre broods and 8 infestors lose to 3/3 mech with unseiged tanks, thors, vikings, hellbats? Hellbats killing all these broodlings is such a huge difference lol... I had a 160 supply army of pure gas units, i fought on creep, had good fungals, had 10 spines with the attack and he just A+moved and rolled over me . We both had decent splits of air units so splash wasnt the issue. Hellbat makes mech very strong vs broodlord, deal with broodlings super well and thats the majority of the damage. In the future I might make like 20 supply of banelings to run into the hellbats and clumped tanks/thors. Theyre very supply efficient so that might work out, ill have 3/3 melee anyhow. So yea be careful when u go brood vs terran hellbats super good, although mines are useless vs brood if you have a few overseers follow ur army. Best response? is it banelings? Hes a goner if he tries to siege his tanks, i can pull back banelings easily.
When facing against mech, i always add a few roaches to infestor/BL. Also, use vipers to cloud/abduct the thors, and the BLs have as long as they want to kill the hellions.
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On October 27 2012 06:27 FortuneSyn wrote:
What do you guys think about swarm hosts in ZvZ? Ive dropped banelings on them when i encounter it, but almost nobody is going swarm host against me.
Maybe swarmhost could be useful as a stepping stone to ultras?
ZvZ is the only place where i use SH. I use them to secure a fast third base and yes, get that ultra tech. SH are so crucial to zvz because they can swarm you.your opponent fast, and zerg ranged units have short range, so SH is very strong against zerg, because they have no AoE to stop it, unlike other matchups, where SH are useless.
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On November 08 2012 08:22 SirPsychoMantis wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 07:58 rembrant wrote:On November 08 2012 07:16 Werezerg wrote:is there any way to clean up some random placed mines in just a half decent way? as i see it, i need to first send an overseer around the map, but babysit it so it does not fly into the mines. than i have to either build mutas/hyds only for killing mines, or i sacrifice lings in. and than i can kill them off with units. so it is entirely impossible to use some automatic routine for it, like in bw? no waypoint stuff possible i guess, the overseer would just die... to be honest i think it is a bad joke, the mines should not shoot overseers, and they should not outrange and 1 shot roaches... Its not that big of a deal, just make a couple hydras to roam around and have an overseer follow them. If I a-move a group of hydras with an overseer following will it kill the mine? Or does it require micro?
No micro is required, but the hydras need to have the range upgrade to outrange the mines. Just try not to bring the overseer in front of the hydralisk.
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On November 08 2012 11:46 NonameAI wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 06:27 FortuneSyn wrote:
What do you guys think about swarm hosts in ZvZ? Ive dropped banelings on them when i encounter it, but almost nobody is going swarm host against me.
Maybe swarmhost could be useful as a stepping stone to ultras? ZvZ is the only place where i use SH. I use them to secure a fast third base and yes, get that ultra tech. SH are so crucial to zvz because they can swarm you.your opponent fast, and zerg ranged units have short range, so SH is very strong against zerg, because they have no AoE to stop it, unlike other matchups, where SH are useless.
Yea ironically ZvZ is where I tend to not go swarm hosts, but mostly because it gives me a chance to learn how to break them. Overpowering with roach/hydra/infestor flanks or banelings seems to work very well, moreso than the other MUs.
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On November 10 2012 00:06 porygon361 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 08:22 SirPsychoMantis wrote:On November 08 2012 07:58 rembrant wrote:On November 08 2012 07:16 Werezerg wrote:is there any way to clean up some random placed mines in just a half decent way? as i see it, i need to first send an overseer around the map, but babysit it so it does not fly into the mines. than i have to either build mutas/hyds only for killing mines, or i sacrifice lings in. and than i can kill them off with units. so it is entirely impossible to use some automatic routine for it, like in bw? no waypoint stuff possible i guess, the overseer would just die... to be honest i think it is a bad joke, the mines should not shoot overseers, and they should not outrange and 1 shot roaches... Its not that big of a deal, just make a couple hydras to roam around and have an overseer follow them. If I a-move a group of hydras with an overseer following will it kill the mine? Or does it require micro? No micro is required, but the hydras need to have the range upgrade to outrange the mines. Just try not to bring the overseer in front of the hydralisk.
does not really sound reasonable. queens should be much better, so you dont need hyd den and no range up. and queens do not get 1 shoted, can heal and spread creep and cost no gas....
did anyone play some swarmhost+viper blinding cloud vs terran mech or protoss death balls?
i think it should be really really strong, i just tested a bit around in unit tester.
vs terran you can shut down the tanks easily this way.
vs protoss blinding cloud is very interesting in my opinion, especially because the attacking colossi will move forward automatically and destroy any forcefields themselves...
would be really interesting to see stuff like that in action.
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hey, i need help beating Terran in ZvT ...
Terran just goes Viking and Widdow mine, Tons and tons of widdow mines.
Because of the Vikings i have no detection eccept for sporecrawlers and the widdow mines kil EVERYTHING...
I played a 1 hour long game in wich i tried Broodlord corruptor infestor, wich got obliterated, i tried ultras, swarm hosts, Zergling Baneling, Roaches, all got obliterated.
Hydras seemed to work best but his vikings picking off my Overseers made this fail aswell.
I feel like there is literaly nothing, no unit compositon, that can beat this simple midgame composition.
Enyone having to deal with this aswell?
Help?
Edit: After more games vs this i found my Misstake, I opened Mutas vs this and thus his Widdow mine numbers got out of hand. Should´ve just started with Swarm hosts to slowly push hi back and use spores for detection.
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On November 10 2012 03:33 Werezerg wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 00:06 porygon361 wrote:On November 08 2012 08:22 SirPsychoMantis wrote:On November 08 2012 07:58 rembrant wrote:On November 08 2012 07:16 Werezerg wrote:is there any way to clean up some random placed mines in just a half decent way? as i see it, i need to first send an overseer around the map, but babysit it so it does not fly into the mines. than i have to either build mutas/hyds only for killing mines, or i sacrifice lings in. and than i can kill them off with units. so it is entirely impossible to use some automatic routine for it, like in bw? no waypoint stuff possible i guess, the overseer would just die... to be honest i think it is a bad joke, the mines should not shoot overseers, and they should not outrange and 1 shot roaches... Its not that big of a deal, just make a couple hydras to roam around and have an overseer follow them. If I a-move a group of hydras with an overseer following will it kill the mine? Or does it require micro? No micro is required, but the hydras need to have the range upgrade to outrange the mines. Just try not to bring the overseer in front of the hydralisk. does not really sound reasonable. queens should be much better, so you dont need hyd den and no range up. and queens do not get 1 shoted, can heal and spread creep and cost no gas.... did anyone play some swarmhost+viper blinding cloud vs terran mech or protoss death balls? i think it should be really really strong, i just tested a bit around in unit tester. vs terran you can shut down the tanks easily this way. vs protoss blinding cloud is very interesting in my opinion, especially because the attacking colossi will move forward automatically and destroy any forcefields themselves... would be really interesting to see stuff like that in action.
What is that even supposed to mean? "doesn't sound reasonable"? Lol, ok so you're too stingy to build a unit you're uncomfortable with to fight against another unit? Hmmmmmmkay, I think it's likely you who is unreasonable.
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On November 12 2012 11:58 BeeNu wrote:
What is that even supposed to mean? "doesn't sound reasonable"? Lol, ok so you're too stingy to build a unit you're uncomfortable with to fight against another unit? Hmmmmmmkay, I think it's likely you who is unreasonable.
are you kidding? i am unreasonable? i just gave 6 reasons why queens should be definetly better than hydras for that job, and you gave no single counter argument?!
And of course i am too "stingy" to build a unit i think is suboptimal against another unit. that´s how zerg is played: as greedy is possible!
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How come nobody here posts replays? You guys are making mines sound like the coming of the apocalypse, yet I've had trouble doing anything significant with them, unless I get lucky, or the other guy is sloppy as hell.
I'd really like to see what these other terrans are doing.
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On November 12 2012 14:49 Werezerg wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 11:58 BeeNu wrote:
What is that even supposed to mean? "doesn't sound reasonable"? Lol, ok so you're too stingy to build a unit you're uncomfortable with to fight against another unit? Hmmmmmmkay, I think it's likely you who is unreasonable. are you kidding? i am unreasonable? i just gave 6 reasons why queens should be definetly better than hydras for that job, and you gave no single counter argument?! And of course i am too "stingy" to build a unit i think is suboptimal against another unit. that´s how zerg is played: as greedy is possible!
Queens can work but you're likely only going to be clearing 1 main route with them due to their speed you can't get any map control and clear out alternate pathways. If you're just clearing up one main path down down the center of the map to move through go ahead and use Queens, be my guest. If you are building Hydras you are going to be getting the range upgrade so why not use them to clear out mines? Hydras are plenty viable in HOTS so if you should choose to go that way then Hydras will be more effective than Queens, hence why you saying Hydras are "unreasonable" makes no sense.
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Probably a dumb question, but as a BETA key holder, what I can do to help the HOTS team the most? I probably can't come up with anything to make the game better... so should I just play a lot? When I play should I try to use as many new HOTS units as possible? Or do my games even help?
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On November 14 2012 01:01 stecman wrote:
Probably a dumb question, but as a BETA key holder, what I can do to help the HOTS team the most? I probably can't come up with anything to make the game better... so should I just play a lot? When I play should I try to use as many new HOTS units as possible? Or do my games even help?
The point of the beta is to simply play. When you encounter bugs, post them on the forums. They're automatically collecting statistics on games, so you just need to play them to fulfill your role. Also engage in (rational) discussion about the new units, how you feel balance is, etc., but do so informed by your first-hand experience.
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On November 13 2012 04:56 AbstractGG wrote:
Queens can work but you're likely only going to be clearing 1 main route with them due to their speed you can't get any map control and clear out alternate pathways. If you're just clearing up one main path down down the center of the map to move through go ahead and use Queens, be my guest. If you are building Hydras you are going to be getting the range upgrade so why not use them to clear out mines? Hydras are plenty viable in HOTS so if you should choose to go that way then Hydras will be more effective than Queens, hence why you saying Hydras are "unreasonable" makes no sense.
well if you play some special style with hydra, of course you can use them if you have them anyway, but usually it costs just a lot to build hyds just to clean some mines, which you can clean with queens too, while saving about 400 gas. if you make speed upgrade for hyds too its even more gas, than you really have to use them somehow too (and if you do not, queens are just about as fast as the unupgraded hyds at least on creep).
against mech this may work with swarmhosts (then SHs could clean mines just the same) against bio i cannot imagine that hydras are any good, even with speed upgrade in HOTS.
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I've not seen hydras work in a direct combat scenario and only really work like mutas or lings both of which are cheaper and more sturdy , I've been attempting play with them regulars less and I just die to direct base push, even if its food adv from my view,
I'ld suggest zergs doing 2base muta long to obtain 3rd an possible 4th, massing swarmhost to defend a push but generally you still need brood lords just straight up not die and push so you can retake 4th maybe a 5th.
Q. Is swarm host pop 3? I seem to supply block quite a lot compared to say roaches? Or am I just bad macro
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EPT
