EPT[G] TheStaircase - An Alternative Improvement Method - Pag…
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Antylamon
United States1981 Posts
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
thejakatak@gmail.com | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=382238#2 Leave your ideas there, and send people who are interested in contributing there. This could be a-whole-nother level of excellent. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
Through our testing we found that going straight into multitasking without a macro step is more efficient while the other method was creating bad habits. We'll keep the Macro levels for the beginning to start out, but once the heavy micro units start coming, it'll be straight up steps the rest of the way. You can check out the specifics here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtFSjIb2ibJTdE5seEZpVTc4aHZkUnNRUlA4azM5Mnc GLHF Keep the feedback coming in. | ||
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Antylamon
United States1981 Posts
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asdf3455
23 Posts
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Walitgon
Australia550 Posts
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Antylamon
United States1981 Posts
>Whitera offensive gg's >I reference Boxer's never surrender "you're not korean" "You're not White-Ra." ![[image loading]](http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l627/0Lavos0/Rage-1.jpg) Just a typical impolite BNet skeptic, nothing to see here. | ||
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Trufflez
Australia174 Posts
 Also the cost efficiency thing is really hard for terrans in the early levels... I stayed ahead in supply all game and microed really well (by my standards) but infestor baneling beat me by like 7000 resources... similar situation with tvt due to mech not much you can do with only marines. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
Also the PF is an upgrade, and you are allowed all upgrades that you can get with your current building restriction. But its probably a good idea to put em in the worksheet to avoid confusion so I will. Thanks for the feedback @anylamon LOL That's my favorite part about the lower levels. People thinking its all about unit composition getting crushed by the power of macro. | ||
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Slayerb0y
Canada8 Posts
Most people playing Starcraft have a very good video game experience(they have played their fare share) and have a have a eaiser time catching on to games then say someone who has bairly used a computer. With this in mind I feel that limiting what players can do too much also limits how fast and how much their game knowledge and general playing can improve. Eg. If you go through bronze and never take a gass. Then when you hit silver you start taking gas and have to learn a ton of things such as when to take it. How to balance it etc. A bronze player at any level should be able to take gas and just through playing will be a little more comfortable with the things involved in this. Then when they hit silver they will be at an increased rate of improvement. Ofc this is in MY opinion that any video game player has enoungh skills already to handle a variety of new things in a new game. main point is that make sure not to limit the game as to limit growth. People are very smart and can improve at a suprising Rate | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
I understand that on paper, limiting units and building seems like it wouldn't work. Many people bring this up. But when most people use TheStaircase they improve faster and enjoy the game more than when they were using the conventional method. Its counter intuitive, but it works | ||
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Slayerb0y
Canada8 Posts
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Antylamon
United States1981 Posts
On November 27 2012 07:18 Slayerb0y wrote: Ahh I see where you are comming from. I feel that I left out something I should clarify. during an sc2 game. While limiting the things you are doing could leave you not working to your full current potential. If feel that a player should be able to work on something like mineral income and simple gas income at the same rate as if they were just doing mineral income due to the abilities and learning Potential of the player. Maximize the amount of things you Are able to do during a game to maximize growth. Simply put things too simple may be beneficial and effiecient. But not to the max. Isn't this contradictory to the point you're trying to convey...? | ||
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Slayerb0y
Canada8 Posts
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asdf3455
23 Posts
On November 24 2012 17:33 asdf3455 wrote: Hi, can I ask you what league you are with each race? And how many games have you played since release? Hi, maybe it was not obvious that I was asking you Jakatak. | ||
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Antylamon
United States1981 Posts
On November 27 2012 10:52 Slayerb0y wrote: its not contradictory, i was never doubting the fact that you improve by keeping things simple. but that keeping things too simple may not be the best way to go Too simple? Some people complain it's too complex.  Not in the way that you mean it, of course, but I still find it amusing. Anyways, there's no evidence that an excess of simplicity is bad, especially considering Zerg's step 0 can be difficult for some, and that's as simple as they come. I see the idea you're bringing up here, but I don't see anything supporting that idea. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
Also, I think you should keep in mind when giving feedback to be a little more specific. It isn't very helpful to say "I think this might be too simple" and then leaving it at that. Personally, I think the more simple we can make it without sacrificing effect, the better, because more people will be "less afraid" of the idea. @asdf I fail to see what this has to do with TheStaircase. | ||
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Uncreative_Troll
98 Posts
Jak started to focus on training on the 14th September 2012 (with Protoss only afaik). He was already in Gold League with all three races and didn't used gas to reach this league (, or?). Over 2 month later, with 4 till 5 hours training 6 days a week, he managed to reach Platinum League yesterday. He already reached this league once during his second week but lost it again while doing his method. He really isn't focused on reaching a higher league and even did stuff like losing on purpose (<- not during his public training time) to start with a lower league again after he started with Level 1 once again because of a change. But considering how much effort he put in it, it really raises the question if he should keep on doing his own system when he want to improve efficient. After all he already reached Gold easily (without gas!) when he started. His SQ improved for sure. His EAPM pretty much stagnates since 6 weeks. I want to quote something desRow recently said in TheJaKaTaK-thread: desRow Canada. November 18 2012 01:38. Posts 2221 You should put aside guides and tutoring for a while and grind ladder hardcore. Took a look at your vods and your mechanics/decision making was way off. You obviously have the patience and are pretty good at helping others but your own ranking is hurting you imho. After over 2 month of concentrating on mechanics with his method this should be a scathingly(?) comment. TheStaircase doesn't train everything which benefits your play anyway. (For example learning decision making is harmed by his method because you don't have all tools you could have.) Jak might have improved with his method but with around 740 games of training (in ~11 weeks) his improvements neither paid really off (league) nor made him a good player in the fields he concentrated on. I think he used to mention that his league will raise fast as he gets access to more units. Well... considering that it seemed to harm him to reach a higher league for so long despite playing so much I fear that argument should have an aftertaste by now... You can't conclude that his method sucks based on a single person who actually should shine the most as he designed it himself and should notice if it really works for him the best way or not. People can still improve certain aspects of their play with TheStaircase but it's save to assume that it won't work for everyone and that you should stop at a certain point in time (doing only this method) when you want to improve as fast as possible cause it's not all about mechanics and macro. It's most likely easier to become decent in a few skills than becoming a master in one to make up for other missing skills. | ||
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SirPsychoMantis
United States180 Posts
On November 16 2012 04:38 JaKaTaK wrote: Okay, we'd have to write a program that takes the average income and average unspent from the replay and calculates it. Then we can analyze masses of games to get a feel for the skill level of each league and adjust the numbers to fit? I think the idea of creating a revamped version of SQ that isn't reliant on the score screen is a really great idea. Does anyone know WhatTheFat personally? Also I'll contact Orek, this seems like it would be up his ally and he might be interested. Start putting out the word and contacting people you know with coding skills. Let's make a new metric I believe the reason why there has never been a replay analyzer to get SQ is that you can't know for sure (without simulating all of SC2) the current number of harvesters because the replay never specifies unit interactions, only player interactions. So you can know that they built 100 harvesters the whole game, but maybe 50 were killed by hellions. I remember a replay site tried to estimate your army strength by reading units you select, but there is never a time where you select all of your harvesters. | ||
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