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On September 02 2012 01:27 BuiBui wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 01:17 Teoita wrote:On September 02 2012 01:05 BuiBui wrote:On September 02 2012 00:44 Drowsy wrote:
If you 2 hatch, you have to go infestor ling. End of story. Any build with muta or roach will get completely rolled by a very simple 2 base timing push from protoss (blink or immortal sentry), every time. Im sorry but, This is just flat out not true. 2 base muta expand 2 base fester expand 2 base hydra expand 2 base 1/1 ling with drop/bane expand 2 base roach with burrow movent expand all of these can be viable if one's macro/ build orders are good. All those except 2 base muta and maybe 2base infestor are allins you can't expand off them. But then again anything goes in gold league right? 1350+ master zerg. You are coming off quite insulting. All of these builds are tech expands, and you done expand behind your slight tech poke. All of these builds can work vs top 8 and low GM toss's in my ladder experience this season. Its all about mind games, and building upon small advantages. Perhaps you should try out stuff before you knock it.
I'm a diamond zerg and use to do two base muta vs toss but masters held it easily in my opinion... It's true that I've never tried 2 base infestor it just doesn't fit into my playstyle...
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On September 02 2012 01:23 Xonix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 01:17 Teoita wrote:On September 02 2012 01:05 BuiBui wrote:On September 02 2012 00:44 Drowsy wrote:
If you 2 hatch, you have to go infestor ling. End of story. Any build with muta or roach will get completely rolled by a very simple 2 base timing push from protoss (blink or immortal sentry), every time. Im sorry but, This is just flat out not true. 2 base muta expand 2 base fester expand 2 base hydra expand 2 base 1/1 ling with drop/bane expand 2 base roach with burrow movent expand all of these can be viable if one's macro/ build orders are good. All those except 2 base muta and maybe 2base infestor are allins you can't expand off them. But then again anything goes in gold league right? Two base muta is viable but you have to do a shit ton of damage and constanly be harrasing or else the toss will just come in and kill you. Whenever a zerg is going infestors it means that your trying to play passive basicly so I don't think the infestor all in would work
You actually dont have to do damage. The mutas do two things. Scout, and the muta' will force cannons in the protoss base, meanwhile you fly around and try to distrupt their macro.
Meanwhile back at your home base, I have cut mutas around 8-10. you have droned your third during your poke, and switched tech to roaches wiht + 1 1 nearly done, or nearly done. if they attack you with the 11:30+ immortal sentry all in for example. you spine up and make roaches. bring your mutas back. and win.
EDIT: Keep in mind that decision making, cutting drones, or droning at thre wrong time for example, even with 1 extra round of droning can make you lose the game.
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On September 02 2012 01:05 BuiBui wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 00:44 Drowsy wrote:
If you 2 hatch, you have to go infestor ling. End of story. Any build with muta or roach will get completely rolled by a very simple 2 base timing push from protoss (blink or immortal sentry), every time. Im sorry but, This is just flat out not true. 2 base muta expand 2 base fester expand 2 base hydra expand 2 base 1/1 ling with drop/bane expand 2 base roach with burrow movent expand all of these can be viable if one's macro/ build orders are good.
Okay, 1/1 ling/bane and 2 base hydra will definitely work, but those builds obviously have their own problems and weaknesses. "Fester expand" is exactly what I refer to when I saw 2 hatch infestor ling. Roach with movement+burrow will get demolished.
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United States4883 Posts
I've seen a few builds that revolve around really fast 2-base infestors that transitions well into 3-base. In these strategies, zerg will go 1gas into lair first, then zergling speed. This generally forces the protoss into a defensive position against a potential baneling/roach bust or a fast nydus. From here you can take a 3rd or make a macro hatch and do a zergling/infestor timing. This gets your infestors up really early to start accumulating energy, making holding off any 2-base all-ins much easier. If the protoss opts for a faster 3rd, you are already ahead in tech and can go for an incredibly fast hive.
All in all, I think this is a cool strategy. I think mutas are much stronger on 3 bases though, as are roach builds. However, you don't need a lot of larva or minerals to get out really fast infestors, and the infestors allow you a lot of flexibility to control the game flow.
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2 base muta into 3rd can work, but is hard to play and you easily lose to a push. i played it for a pretty long time (like them mutas  ) but i think if the protoss scouts and reacts properly, you most of the time lose (trying a base trade as last resort). If you do a hatch block of his natural it gets more viable as this basically shifts tech timings relative to mineral income, so at the time of muta tech he won't have that big army to push you.
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I don't see why you would go 2 base over 3 base. With 3 base, you get a good lead by sitting on your ass and can get a surprisingly decent timing on lair tech. With 2 base, in order to get that same lead, you need to actually do damage, which is automatically worse unless you have decent odds to either do that damage or a chance for extreme damage. Also, two base turtle and two base allins are monsters to bust and hold, respectively.
I think that 2 base versus 3 base is like 1 gate FE versus FFE for protoss. 1 gate FE does have a few advantages, but by and large FFE is just better.
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EPT
