• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:15
CEST 22:15
KST 05:15
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers13Maestros of the Game 2 announced82026 GSL Tour plans announced14Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid24
StarCraft 2
General
Maestros of the Game 2 announced Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists MaNa leaves Team Liquid 2026 GSL Tour plans announced Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 522 Flip My Base The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss Mutation # 520 Moving Fees
Brood War
General
Pros React To: ASL S21, Ro.16 Group C ASL21 General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [TOOL] Starcraft Chat Translator Data needed
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro16 Group C [ASL21] Ro16 Group D [ASL21] Ro16 Group B
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Diablo IV Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
McBoner: A hockey love story 2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sexual Health Of Gamers
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3025 users

[G] Winning With Ease - Page 19

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 Next All
DarkZonk
Profile Joined April 2011
22 Posts
October 01 2012 22:24 GMT
#361
yep, only 2 gas and it hits around min 7.30-8.

ill add replay next tiem i play (and prolly lose) agaisnt it.

MrLlama
Profile Joined December 2010
United States454 Posts
October 02 2012 01:41 GMT
#362
On October 02 2012 07:24 DarkZonk wrote:
yep, only 2 gas and it hits around min 7.30-8.

ill add replay next tiem i play (and prolly lose) agaisnt it.



haha okay I'll get a video up for you sometime

In the meantime, the video today may not make it up due to xsplit not recognizing SC2 anymore....so I'm reinstalling everything right now but we'll have to see.
www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos
MrLlama
Profile Joined December 2010
United States454 Posts
October 02 2012 04:34 GMT
#363
New episode is up. Got xsplit and SC2 to work together again after an uninstall

www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos
Dawsmonkee
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom31 Posts
October 02 2012 07:46 GMT
#364
Name: Daws
Race: Zerg
Match up: ZvT
Your Build: 15 hatch 16 pool -> 3rd base + units
His Build: Helion banshee
Specific Map?: None, but Ohana gives me most trouble
Replay: (helpful if you can provide one but not always necessary)
Comments: I've just had real trouble defending against someone who constantly sends helions one way and banshees the other. I guess this is mid-game stuff, so would be harder to showcase?
Regret the things you do, not the things you don't
MrLlama
Profile Joined December 2010
United States454 Posts
October 02 2012 18:04 GMT
#365
On October 02 2012 16:46 Dawsmonkee wrote:
Name: Daws
Race: Zerg
Match up: ZvT
Your Build: 15 hatch 16 pool -> 3rd base + units
His Build: Helion banshee
Specific Map?: None, but Ohana gives me most trouble
Replay: (helpful if you can provide one but not always necessary)
Comments: I've just had real trouble defending against someone who constantly sends helions one way and banshees the other. I guess this is mid-game stuff, so would be harder to showcase?


I've had a couple of these requests so I'll probably get it up pretty quickly.

I think taking it to the hellion-banshee stage isn't bad, it's only when people want really late game stuff that it can be difficult to show.
www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos
MrLlama
Profile Joined December 2010
United States454 Posts
October 02 2012 23:20 GMT
#366
new video up! defending 11/11 ramp block in.

May still be processing for a second, youtube is being slow.

www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos
MrLlama
Profile Joined December 2010
United States454 Posts
October 03 2012 18:06 GMT
#367
New episode is up. Yesterday we took a look at when they wall you into your main, this time we look at when a terran walls you into your natural

www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos
MrLlama
Profile Joined December 2010
United States454 Posts
October 05 2012 18:14 GMT
#368
another video has been added. Someone was having trouble when they'd play ling infestor ultra vs roach. that technically isn't a "push" that is hitting but rather this video is showcasing the play style and how to prevent that push from even starting.

www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos
JDub
Profile Joined December 2010
United States976 Posts
October 05 2012 19:48 GMT
#369
On October 03 2012 08:20 MrLlama wrote:
new video up! defending 11/11 ramp block in.

May still be processing for a second, youtube is being slow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNMz-a7gMmA

What about against the double bunker wall-in, where he starts the bunkers while your hatch is half-way done at your natural? Is it best to cancel the hatch at the natural and build a 2nd hatch in your main right away?

As I see it, if they successfully double bunker the ramp, it's basically gg. They can do it off of a more economical opening, such as 12/12 or 12/14 rax, and then it becomes easier for the marines to poke up the ramp, since they can easily run back into the bunkers once they have forced lings out. In particular, if it's on a map where you can't poke at the bottom of your ramp without dropping a creep tumor first, being forced to cancel your natural hatchery (so you'll only have 1 queen out early and have to choose between inject and tumor) just makes it even worse.

I'm curious, though, to see if you have any ideas for what to do in the double bunker wall-off situation. I suppose a baneling bust would be an option since the bunkers are easier to break, but I dunno
MrLlama
Profile Joined December 2010
United States454 Posts
October 05 2012 21:54 GMT
#370
On October 06 2012 04:48 JDub wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 03 2012 08:20 MrLlama wrote:
new video up! defending 11/11 ramp block in.

May still be processing for a second, youtube is being slow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNMz-a7gMmA

What about against the double bunker wall-in, where he starts the bunkers while your hatch is half-way done at your natural? Is it best to cancel the hatch at the natural and build a 2nd hatch in your main right away?

As I see it, if they successfully double bunker the ramp, it's basically gg. They can do it off of a more economical opening, such as 12/12 or 12/14 rax, and then it becomes easier for the marines to poke up the ramp, since they can easily run back into the bunkers once they have forced lings out. In particular, if it's on a map where you can't poke at the bottom of your ramp without dropping a creep tumor first, being forced to cancel your natural hatchery (so you'll only have 1 queen out early and have to choose between inject and tumor) just makes it even worse.

I'm curious, though, to see if you have any ideas for what to do in the double bunker wall-off situation. I suppose a baneling bust would be an option since the bunkers are easier to break, but I dunno


There are many many many types of 2 rax bunker rushes to cover so I'll try and add a video for this one later on.

Letting the hatch finish in my opinion would be a mistake. I'd say grab that drone after cancelling and try to run away. A lot of times the terran won't even bother going to look for it and you can create a proxy hatch somewhere else and then pump lings from there to attack with.

More so though I'd say just cancel the hatch, build a hatch in your main, and grab a queen and spine crawler when your pool finishes. Then spend your first energy on a tumor to spread towards the natural, make another queen, make another spine, and try and bust out that way. Behind this of course be taking your gas (after 24 drones), getting upgrades, speed, and then you have multiple options of trying to nydus, baneling bust out (depending how many bunkers he added behind), infestors, drops, etc... I haven't played against this to really know the best strategy so I'll have to test out a few ways and then make a video for you.
www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos
MrLlama
Profile Joined December 2010
United States454 Posts
October 06 2012 16:53 GMT
#371
New video up for defending 6 pool when you go CC first.

Now terrans can be greedy and not feel threatened by a 6 pool!

www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos
Sianos
Profile Joined April 2011
580 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-06 19:23:21
October 06 2012 18:49 GMT
#372
Well even if i can hold 6 pools with a cc first, i´m still not sure whether it´s worth doing it or not. From what i heard you only have ~ 3 workers more than with a 1 rax fe, but if scouted your opponent can do a 3 hatch before pool without any worries and then he can drone like crazy. Did anyone tested what exactly the benefit of a cc first is?
MrLlama
Profile Joined December 2010
United States454 Posts
October 07 2012 06:08 GMT
#373
On October 07 2012 03:49 Sianos wrote:
Well even if i can hold 6 pools with a cc first, i´m still not sure whether it´s worth doing it or not. From what i heard you only have ~ 3 workers more than with a 1 rax fe, but if scouted your opponent can do a 3 hatch before pool without any worries and then he can drone like crazy. Did anyone tested what exactly the benefit of a cc first is?


well 3 workers is a lot at the top...

and even if he 3 hatches before pool, a lot of zergs don't use that so they probably won't do it and you can get a slightly more economical lead
www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos
Sianos
Profile Joined April 2011
580 Posts
October 07 2012 08:19 GMT
#374
On October 07 2012 15:08 MrLlama wrote:

well 3 workers is a lot at the top...

and even if he 3 hatches before pool, a lot of zergs don't use that so they probably won't do it and you can get a slightly more economical lead


Well i faced some zerg in masters league in season 3, who went 3 hatch before pool even aggainst a 1 rax fe, so i won´t bet on that.
tropical
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany61 Posts
October 07 2012 10:42 GMT
#375
On August 07 2012 05:39 ishyishy wrote:
I might be a minority, but I have never enjoyed or have been interested in discussing APM. I feel like almost everyone talks about APM way too much. A lot of people over-value it, to the point of trying to insult other players because they have low APM in whatever league (like for example I have under 60 effective APM, but I was in masters for 3 seasons, and all i got was "how did you get to masters, you are terrible, you need 150 apm minimum for this and that, oh yu play protoss no wonder...").

When I see a caster or an observer show the APM tab in a tournament match, and they go into how much ap each player has, it actually annoys me. I would rather hear almost anything else in the beginning of a match when nothing is going on; like who the players are, who their team is, what tournaments they won in the past, etc.

I feel like you can just say "you can slow down your APM if you use it more effectively instead of mindless spam" and be done with it. What else is there to say on effective APM? You cant really teach people how to use APM by telling them on a forum or a video, the player needs to make the decision to do it. It seems like somethng you learn by doing, rather than theory crafting about it, which is another reason I dont feel like there is much to discuss about it.

Im no pro, but I dont see how APM relates to strategy at all. Obviously you cant be "too slow" because a certain skill level of mechanics is needed to play amoung the best, but in general it doesnt explain what the player is doing or is going to do during the game. I never hear "oh well if you do this build, you want around 200 apm. If you go for this build, you want 120."

This is just my opinion on the subject of your show or blog or whatever. If you can make a show with this subject interesting or entertaining, then I will be impressed lol. Good luck.



Look at APM like at the skill of a cook to work fast in a kitchen, maybe handle his knives and having multiple meals cooking at the same time. You can make great food if your slower, but you will always be a little bit behind and will have problems that a person who has these skills won't have.

I get you point but APM are not unimportant. At the same time they are not everything that counts!
MrLlama
Profile Joined December 2010
United States454 Posts
October 08 2012 00:21 GMT
#376
On October 07 2012 17:19 Sianos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 07 2012 15:08 MrLlama wrote:

well 3 workers is a lot at the top...

and even if he 3 hatches before pool, a lot of zergs don't use that so they probably won't do it and you can get a slightly more economical lead


Well i faced some zerg in masters league in season 3, who went 3 hatch before pool even aggainst a 1 rax fe, so i won´t bet on that.


ya sure you didn't play vs me??

It still works vs 1 rax FE in my opinion
www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos
JDub
Profile Joined December 2010
United States976 Posts
October 08 2012 05:18 GMT
#377
On October 07 2012 01:53 MrLlama wrote:
New video up for defending 6 pool when you go CC first.

Now terrans can be greedy and not feel threatened by a 6 pool!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DB51QO8eJY

I understand how running all of your scvs all over the map will work against someone who goes 6p and pulls all of their drones. But what about someone who goes 6p and comes at you with just their lings? In this case, I feel like running your scvs all over the map is not an option, since your opponent is still mining, and can just use his lings to kill your constructing rax, your depot, and force your CC to lift off (at which point he can just drone up, while you have to relocate your base).

My response in this situation is to try to get my wall up at all costs, as 15 scvs will beat 6 zerglings in a head-on fight quite handily. I would pull all of my scvs and try to finish a depot/rax/depot wall with the money from canceling the CC. This situation is more similar to a 6p in ZvP against a FFE, where protoss is forced to defend their main and try to lose as few probes as possible. I'm curious if that is how you would recommend to defend it.
MrLlama
Profile Joined December 2010
United States454 Posts
October 08 2012 05:50 GMT
#378
On October 08 2012 14:18 JDub wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 07 2012 01:53 MrLlama wrote:
New video up for defending 6 pool when you go CC first.

Now terrans can be greedy and not feel threatened by a 6 pool!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DB51QO8eJY

I understand how running all of your scvs all over the map will work against someone who goes 6p and pulls all of their drones. But what about someone who goes 6p and comes at you with just their lings? In this case, I feel like running your scvs all over the map is not an option, since your opponent is still mining, and can just use his lings to kill your constructing rax, your depot, and force your CC to lift off (at which point he can just drone up, while you have to relocate your base).

My response in this situation is to try to get my wall up at all costs, as 15 scvs will beat 6 zerglings in a head-on fight quite handily. I would pull all of my scvs and try to finish a depot/rax/depot wall with the money from canceling the CC. This situation is more similar to a 6p in ZvP against a FFE, where protoss is forced to defend their main and try to lose as few probes as possible. I'm curious if that is how you would recommend to defend it.


Although I haven't done much testing on it, that's probably how I would defend it. Once you get your wall up, you win. You have 400 extra minerals to spare and keep making scvs with so just use your 13-14 scvs to fight his lings while you get the wall up. Then once it's up, repair, and win easily because you're ahead in workers.
www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos
MrLlama
Profile Joined December 2010
United States454 Posts
October 08 2012 17:49 GMT
#379
new episode is up. Was heavily requested in the reddit thread so I thought I'd put up a very easy guide for defending vs banshee hellion

www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos
b0ub0u
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada445 Posts
October 09 2012 18:52 GMT
#380
On October 09 2012 02:49 MrLlama wrote:
new episode is up. Was heavily requested in the reddit thread so I thought I'd put up a very easy guide for defending vs banshee hellion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40uSsGdJkYI


Hey thanks nice video! One question though, what made you build those spores? I didn't saw you scout his Starports... do you just build them blindly expecting Hellions/Banshees?

Tnx
In the swarm we trust
Prev 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 45m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 477
ProTech169
UpATreeSC 137
elazer 96
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 17897
Calm 3171
BeSt 305
Rush 170
firebathero 94
Dewaltoss 91
Terrorterran 16
ajuk12(nOOB) 11
Dota 2
Pyrionflax202
monkeys_forever60
Counter-Strike
pashabiceps2288
fl0m2176
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King104
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu423
Other Games
Grubby3696
FrodaN870
B2W.Neo449
shahzam329
mouzStarbuck216
C9.Mang0211
Trikslyr158
NightEnD13
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV264
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 68
• Shameless 30
• Reevou 2
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 20
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota2733
• WagamamaTV683
Other Games
• imaqtpie1202
• Shiphtur187
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
3h 45m
The PondCast
13h 45m
KCM Race Survival
13h 45m
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
14h 45m
Gerald vs herO
Clem vs Cure
ByuN vs Solar
Rogue vs MaxPax
ShoWTimE vs TBD
OSC
18h 45m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 3h
Escore
1d 13h
RSL Revival
1d 20h
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
2 days
[ Show More ]
Universe Titan Cup
2 days
Rogue vs Percival
Ladder Legends
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
BSL
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
3 days
Ladder Legends
3 days
BSL
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Soma vs hero
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Leta vs YSC
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-04-20
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Proleague 2026-04-22
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W4
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.