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On June 20 2012 07:13 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Edit: Hey I wonder if such a thing could work involving ghost harass, cloak and/or just medivac drop, snipe and/or EMP the queens, possibly even snipe the larvae if there are no more queens/energy.
Again, opportunity cost.
Would you make 1 Ghost to snipe a Queen, or would you make 8 marines to kill a Queen, a few drones, and maybe even snipe a tech building?
The Ghost has give something that a Marine or Hellion or any other unit cannot to be worth using.
On June 20 2012 10:12 Entirety wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 09:30 Falcon-sw wrote:On June 20 2012 09:14 Dontkillme wrote:
Hellion openings dont do shit now. This is annoying Considering all Terran needed to do was mass blue flame hellions, absolutely destroy the zerg economy, and win, this change is welcome, as far as I'm concerned. I forget what tournament it was, but every Terran from a certain team did this strategy and won the vast majority of their TvZ's. That tournament caused blue flame hellions to be nerfed. I'm pretty sure "hellion openings don't do shit now" means the standard bread-and-butter reactor hellions, which makes use of 4-6 red flame hellions, is being denied by queens nowadays. I have a question to ask: is it actually feasible to keep up with Zerg in a straight up macro game? MKP can macro with the best, but he has to constantly pressure the Zerg with pure bio (his waves of units never stop). In my opinion, trying to macro without pressuring against Zerg is a certain death (mech just doesn't cut it...) while Zerg macroing without pressuring leaves Zerg in a very favorable position. Thoughts?
It is impossible to take on Zerg in a straight macro game without some sort of aggression. Due to way Spawn Larva works, Zerg can get drones way faster than Terran (or Protoss for that matter) can. Once they hit optimal drone count, all they need to do is constantly expand and constantly spread creep and get to their Hive tech, and Terran sucks vs Hive.
EDIT: Also, I'm 95% sure that Hellions were nerfed because of TvT, not any other match-up.
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On June 20 2012 10:56 HeroMystic wrote:
It is impossible to take on Zerg in a straight macro game without some sort of aggression. Due to way Spawn Larva works, Zerg can get drones way faster than Terran (or Protoss for that matter) can. Once they hit optimal drone count, all they need to do is constantly expand and constantly spread creep and get to their Hive tech, and Terran sucks vs Hive.
Even if Terrans go CC first + 4OC + expand everywhere with no pressure from the Zerg, it's impossible for the Terran to keep up no matter what? I'm starting to feel like this is the case because of the lack of strong Terran lategame. Zergs can sit back and they have something to aim for - Infestor/Brood Lord comp + mass spines, throw in cracklings/blings if you want to, save up a bank for an Ultra switch, etc.
What will Terran do if they can sit back and macro? Let's see, we can build up an army of tanks... and get destroyed by brood lords (or in truth, we can destroyed by almost anything depending on the positioning, tanks aren't that good anymore...), we can build up marauders/hellions and get destroyed by brood lords again, ghosts aren't really too viable after the snipe nerf, we could build mech but that can also be crushed by brood lords, ultras, or roaches, we could build bio but that gets demolished by fungals + blings + ultras, etc.
The point is, Zerg can build up a super lategame death army while Terran can't quite build something which can compete. It's like Zerg and Terran are filling up their buckets, but Zerg can fill up their bucket faster (Spawn Larvae mechanic, Zerg is pretty much the best macro race) and Zerg has a larger bucket (better lategame army). The only thing Terran can do is constantly disrupt the Zerg from filling their bucket, but the queen buff made that quite difficult.
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On June 20 2012 06:24 Insoleet wrote:
Just make more and more medivacs so that your marines and marauders are very cost efficient. Like 12 or 14 medivacs.
Thats what did MKP against Stephano, and he outplayed him.
Against DRG he built only 4-6 medivacs... DRG raped him.
stephano didnt make mutas, DRG does.
every battle the medivacs just floated away. of course their gonna be cost effective if you have medivacs from 6 battles saved up. its better to know what your talking about first.
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Don't overanalyse comments of pros...
A terran player can't analyze this stuff objectively. Since MMA earns his money playing this game he would be thankful for freewins due to imbalance...
The queen buff is worth *****. Srsly... Z arent using spines+Buildingwalls anymore.
Do a Reactor Helion expand. Throw your ***** 6 Helions into their base with 100% commitment and you will win the game up to high Master. 4 Queens will not protect 1hitted Drones from 6 Toasters on wheels!!!
right now Z's are winning because T is scared.
Queens have a higher range, not a higher dmg.
There is absolute no sense to make this Queen buff guilty for a 76% winrate.
Z is overall better since they have new build+ T is super scared without any reason
User was warned for this post
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On June 20 2012 10:12 Entirety wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 09:30 Falcon-sw wrote:On June 20 2012 09:14 Dontkillme wrote:
Hellion openings dont do shit now. This is annoying Considering all Terran needed to do was mass blue flame hellions, absolutely destroy the zerg economy, and win, this change is welcome, as far as I'm concerned. I forget what tournament it was, but every Terran from a certain team did this strategy and won the vast majority of their TvZ's. That tournament caused blue flame hellions to be nerfed. I'm pretty sure "hellion openings don't do shit now" means the standard bread-and-butter reactor hellions, which makes use of 4-6 red flame hellions, is being denied by queens nowadays. I have a question to ask: is it actually feasible to keep up with Zerg in a straight up macro game? MKP can macro with the best, but he has to constantly pressure the Zerg with pure bio (his waves of units never stop). In my opinion, trying to macro without pressuring against Zerg is a certain death (mech just doesn't cut it...) while Zerg macroing without pressuring leaves Zerg in a very favorable position. Thoughts?
which then caused terran to skip blue flame and just mass red flame hellions lol
my fd had been using a new kind of unit composition while practising against me: marine marauder a lot hellion (red flame) on 2 base while grabbing a third and it works quite well because it is extremely mobile and easy to mass up.
he is around master level and so either I am just not good enough to defend against it or it really is quite strong
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Asymetric design Bro's...
Where would the sense if all races macro on the same way?
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On June 20 2012 11:23 frezMki wrote:
Don't overanalyse comments of pros...
A terran player can't analyze this stuff objectively. Since MMA earns his money playing this game he would be thankful for freewins due to imbalance...
The queen buff is worth *****. Srsly... Z arent using spines+Buildingwalls anymore.
Do a Reactor Helion expand. Throw your ***** 6 Helions into their base with 100% commitment and you will win the game up to high Master. 4 Queens will not protect 1hitted Drones from 6 Toasters on wheels!!!
right now Z's are winning because T is scared.
Queens have a higher range, not a higher dmg.
There is absolute no sense to make this Queen buff guilty for a 76% winrate.
Z is overall better since they have new build+ T is super scared without any reason
if anything you're under analyzing it
what do you think the other purpose of hellions were supposed to be, and how strong bio actually is without cs/stim? (which to get both you'll have to push when the creep can be potentially in the middle of the map already, and the zerg been already been pure droning since there's not efficient _normal_ timing you can do to in the early stages of the game to harass the zerg (other than gimmicky ones that you can't rely on anyways)
I haven't even touched some other aspects of it either.
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All the queen buff means it that the game is going to be played how it's supposed to be played. Reactor hellion into quick third where Terran could both take a quick third while actively denying Zerg's third was ridiculous.
Now, if lategame TvZ is imbalanced, that is an entirely separate issue. But this queen buff was necessary to fix the early game problem where Terran could dictate Zerg economy while at the same time being greedy. Taking an expansion should mean that you can't deny the opponent from expanding, and Zerg should always expand before Terran in a natural gameflow. If Terran wants to be the greedy one and expand to his third first, that's fine, but he shouldn't be able to deny Zerg from getting his third at the same time.
I think the queen buff solved a lot of problems in early game ZvT - Terran could do a ton of strong pressure even while playing greedy, particularly with hellions. Now, Terran has to actually invest to do strong pressure - a later third, delayed tech, et cetera. Pressure should not be free.
Again, I'm not saying that Terran is balanced with Zerg or anything here. But don't confuse lategame imbalance with early game imbalance.
That said, Terran should and will probably transition into playing a 'better' game, as in take their natural consistently, and take their third consistently (sometimes before Zerg, but will always at least take their third reasonable soon after Zerg has), and play out a macro game. This makes 2 base all-ins from Terran much more punishing if Terran fails to do damage, since Zerg can actually take a third now, OR it will make it so Terran has to actually invest into an all-in to actually kill a third, which Zerg can at least possibly take now. Pre-patch was like Toss being able to deny Zerg from taking a third despite going FFE.
Just go some sort of FE into fast third. There are plenty of Terrans who are doing just fine in mid and early game with builds like polt's 1 rax FE into reactor hellion, banshee, third, or the even greedier variations of 1 rax FE into reactor hellion, third, then starport, banshee, and all sorts of FE into pre-40 supply third that doesnt involve banshees or hellions. Playing like it is still pre-patch is absolutely absurd, so people complaining about balance when they are still doing reactor hellion into fast third or even reactor hellion 50+ third (which was outdated long before the queen buff btw) is a bit silly.
And to say again - I'm not saying the match-up is balanced at all for Terran (or imbalanced, i dont care to get into balance arguments). I'm simply saying that the queen buff addressed a balance issue in the early game. Lategame balance is an entirely different monster, and yes, early game affects what happens lategame, but up until lategame, ZvT is now very well rounded and balanced, and flows very naturally (terran expands, zerg takes third, terran takes third or pressures and zerg can still take that third but will now have to defend that third, but unlike before, he's ahead now whereas before, terran could just back off and take his third and wasn't even really that all-in because its not like zerg was up a base, nor can terran can just own Z in a macro game by taking a quick third while denying' zergs at the same time which was ridiculous).
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On June 20 2012 13:56 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 11:23 frezMki wrote:
Don't overanalyse comments of pros...
A terran player can't analyze this stuff objectively. Since MMA earns his money playing this game he would be thankful for freewins due to imbalance...
The queen buff is worth *****. Srsly... Z arent using spines+Buildingwalls anymore.
Do a Reactor Helion expand. Throw your ***** 6 Helions into their base with 100% commitment and you will win the game up to high Master. 4 Queens will not protect 1hitted Drones from 6 Toasters on wheels!!!
right now Z's are winning because T is scared.
Queens have a higher range, not a higher dmg.
There is absolute no sense to make this Queen buff guilty for a 76% winrate.
Z is overall better since they have new build+ T is super scared without any reason
if anything you're under analyzing it what do you think the other purpose of hellions were supposed to be, and how strong bio actually is without cs/stim? (which to get both you'll have to push when the creep can be potentially in the middle of the map already, and the zerg been already been pure droning since there's not efficient _normal_ timing you can do to in the early stages of the game to harass the zerg (other than gimmicky ones that you can't rely on anyways) I haven't even touched some other aspects of it either.
Ever microed Marines vs Lings dude?
It works. He must spend larva on units which he doesn't wanna build at this point. (Scan creep denie btw).
Im playing MMM in TvZ because it fits my micro best and i dont get your problem.There is absolutely no problem todo some early pushes. Those pushes are quite essential with MMM play tbh.because you are absuing the Z macro weakness (eco or army) while you effectively trade armys.
Without those pushes MMM is kinda useless.
I don't get your compare between Bio and helions. They dont need each other but they can exist simultaniously.
If you think Helions were made to close the gap of "low bio till cs/stim bio" - I must say you are wrong  Or atleast your pov doesn't fit to mine.
Anyway i don't think this Queen buff was a huge deal.Its more a scare factor at the moment and Z's become better in general
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On June 20 2012 11:23 frezMki wrote:
Don't overanalyse comments of pros...
A terran player can't analyze this stuff objectively. Since MMA earns his money playing this game he would be thankful for freewins due to imbalance...
The queen buff is worth *****. Srsly... Z arent using spines+Buildingwalls anymore.
Do a Reactor Helion expand. Throw your ***** 6 Helions into their base with 100% commitment and you will win the game up to high Master. 4 Queens will not protect 1hitted Drones from 6 Toasters on wheels!!!
right now Z's are winning because T is scared.
Queens have a higher range, not a higher dmg.
There is absolute no sense to make this Queen buff guilty for a 76% winrate.
Z is overall better since they have new build+ T is super scared without any reason
You are making a hell lot of assumptions here.
"The queen buff is worth *****. Srsly... Z arent using spines+Buildingwalls anymore." - You are getting confused here. Wouldnt a switch from spines + buildingwalls to 6 ish queens for defence indicate queens have gotten stronger?
"Do a Reactor Helion expand. Throw your ***** 6 Helions into their base with 100% commitment and you will win the game up to high Master. 4 Queens will not protect 1hitted Drones from 6 Toasters on wheels!!!" - The zerg meta game has shifted to get lots of queens for early defence.
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On June 20 2012 14:09 frezMki wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 13:56 zhurai wrote:On June 20 2012 11:23 frezMki wrote:
Don't overanalyse comments of pros...
A terran player can't analyze this stuff objectively. Since MMA earns his money playing this game he would be thankful for freewins due to imbalance...
The queen buff is worth *****. Srsly... Z arent using spines+Buildingwalls anymore.
Do a Reactor Helion expand. Throw your ***** 6 Helions into their base with 100% commitment and you will win the game up to high Master. 4 Queens will not protect 1hitted Drones from 6 Toasters on wheels!!!
right now Z's are winning because T is scared.
Queens have a higher range, not a higher dmg.
There is absolute no sense to make this Queen buff guilty for a 76% winrate.
Z is overall better since they have new build+ T is super scared without any reason
if anything you're under analyzing it what do you think the other purpose of hellions were supposed to be, and how strong bio actually is without cs/stim? (which to get both you'll have to push when the creep can be potentially in the middle of the map already, and the zerg been already been pure droning since there's not efficient _normal_ timing you can do to in the early stages of the game to harass the zerg (other than gimmicky ones that you can't rely on anyways) I haven't even touched some other aspects of it either. Ever microed Marines vs Lings dude? It works. He must spend larva on units which he doesn't wanna build at this point. (Scan creep denie btw). Im playing MMM in TvZ because it fits my micro best and i dont get your problem.There is absolutely no problem todo some early pushes. Those pushes are quite essential with MMM play tbh.because you are absuing the Z macro weakness (eco or army) while you effectively trade armys. Without those pushes MMM is kinda useless. I don't get your compare between Bio and helions. They dont need each other but they can exist simultaniously. If you think Helions were made to close the gap of "low bio till cs/stim bio" - I must say you are wrong Or atleast your pov doesn't fit to mine. Anyway i don't think this Queen buff was a huge deal.Its more a scare factor at the moment and Z's become better in general
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
yes I have
honestly I prefer mmm+bf hellions+thors, they work much much better
and I'm not talking about 9 min + timing pushes, I'm talking about early pressure, vs 4-6 queens + good scouting by the zerg (lings)
zzz when was I referring to marine marauder _medivac_ in my post?
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Belial88,
Are you saying that every stage of the game must be balanced (early game, midgame, lategame)? If so, then I point to TvP as an example of how that isn't necessarily true. Terran seems to have an advantage in the super ridiculous lategame (throw away all SCVs in favor of MULEs), Protoss have an advantage in the lategame (storm + Archons + Collosi), and Terran have an advantage in the early to midgame. The advantage can shift throughout the game, but TvZ is nothing like that at all.
Zerg has the advantage in the lategame right now, I don't think anyone can deny that. Until someone revolutionizes lategame TvZ again (c'mon Mvp, do some strategy such as mass nukes and show us how it is done!), Terran's lategame options are distinctly weaker than Zerg's. If so, then Terran has to have an advantage in the early/midgame, no?
Well, the Queen buff changed that. It's not that Zerg is too powerful in the midgame, but they are definitely on equal footing. If Zerg is on equal footing in the early/midgame and has an advantage in the lategame, that's not exactly balanced.
Even when Terrans were able to deny the Zerg's 3rd while taking a quick third (Bomber's quick 3rd OC comes to mind), Terrans RARELY outmacroed the Zerg. I agree that the Queen buff helped Zergs deal with Terran pressure such as excessive 2rax bunker play, but the ramifications are just too great.
If a Terran and Zerg play the game you described, Zerg can easily defend his 3rd (unless it's a 2-base all-in from the Terran, in which case the Zerg can probably crush it and win anyway). The Terran takes his 3rd and the Zerg takes his 4th, and suddenly Infestor/Blords come knocking at the Terran's door. Perhaps the Terran manages to fend it off... then he dies to the instant Ultralisk remax.
Terran simply cannot hope to outmacro Zerg because Zerg has been overdroning heavily due to his new protection, the Queen. Whatever pressures the Terran may throw at the Zerg, the Zerg will repel them and drone heavily. This translates into an economic advantage, a macro advantage, and later, an army advantage. There is a reason why Terrans opt to pressure and disrupt the Zerg's macro - they need to do so in order to keep up. Most Terran build orders had this general plan:
- Fast expand
- Put on light/decent amounts of pressure, forcing the Zerg to make lings or blings to deal with it
- The Zerg used some of his larva on units, and the worker count is more or less equal
- A slugfest occurs with mech/marine tank/bio vs. the Zerg composition
Now, take away step 2 of the game plan. That's why Terrans are trying to find new, innovative ways to pressure (hellion/marauder, hellion/banshee, ghost rush to kill queens?), new ways to all-in (Zergs aren't dumb, they know how to counter all-ins and they will learn), or new ways to outmacro the Zerg, or at least macro on par with the Zerg (ridiculously greedy 4OC builds are suggested, but even then, I'm skeptical about Terran's ability to macro with the Zerg without pressure)
Honestly, I think the best option left for Terrans is pure bio with crazy multitasking. Straight up assaults vs. muta and insane amounts of drops + pre-splitting vs. infestor/blings/lings/t3.
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On June 20 2012 14:14 ThaSlayer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 11:23 frezMki wrote:
Don't overanalyse comments of pros...
A terran player can't analyze this stuff objectively. Since MMA earns his money playing this game he would be thankful for freewins due to imbalance...
The queen buff is worth *****. Srsly... Z arent using spines+Buildingwalls anymore.
Do a Reactor Helion expand. Throw your ***** 6 Helions into their base with 100% commitment and you will win the game up to high Master. 4 Queens will not protect 1hitted Drones from 6 Toasters on wheels!!!
right now Z's are winning because T is scared.
Queens have a higher range, not a higher dmg.
There is absolute no sense to make this Queen buff guilty for a 76% winrate.
Z is overall better since they have new build+ T is super scared without any reason
You are making a hell lot of assumptions here. "The queen buff is worth *****. Srsly... Z arent using spines+Buildingwalls anymore." - You are getting confused here. Wouldnt a switch from spines + buildingwalls to 6 ish queens for defence indicate queens have gotten stronger? "Do a Reactor Helion expand. Throw your ***** 6 Helions into their base with 100% commitment and you will win the game up to high Master. 4 Queens will not protect 1hitted Drones from 6 Toasters on wheels!!!" - The zerg meta game has shifted to get lots of queens for early defence.
But thats the point.Queens aren't defending Helion commitments properly. They aren't blocking chokes like they did before.They aren't using a simcity anymore. If i build 6 helion and wanna see some toasted drones i'll get them 100%.
Creep denie is still possible with Helions but now we can also do free Drone dmg.
Thats what im talking about.
Pre-Patch there were also 3+ Queens and we didn't care. We were able to denie the creep.
Post-Patch we have free entrance to their bases and thats the point.
During our fear of this long range mummys we aren't abusing their defence lack.
If they start using a simcity again then i do agree with you that this Buff is ridicilous. But atm they aren't and we can exploit that.
This simcity will slow them down so its kinda fine.(Evo+Spine) + 1 queen to block the Choke.
-> Less queens which fight like lions for their creeps
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On June 20 2012 10:01 Gyro_SC2 wrote:other exemple of allin/ way to punish greedy zerg, 4rax+1factoryhellion : http://drop.sc/200715
What the fuck did I just watch? Mined gas for no reason, and dropped rax without timing. If you're gonna drop 3 extra raxes save up till 450 and drop 3.
Marauder hellion is ten times better.
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It's all just a matter of information disparity. Overlord speed allows nearly perfect scouting for the Zerg, and Queens' defensive ability can deny most attempts for Terran players to get sufficient early information to choose between greed and safety. This effectively gives Zerg control of the game from 0:00. Given that Terran's late-game composition is pitifully weaker than the other two races, removing their ability to influence the match in the early/mid game (without going all-in) seems to have baffled even the best Terrans in the world.
People's suggested solutions are, in my opinion, very gimmicky and unreliable. Ghosts and Ravens, while offering strong spells are insanely difficult to handle. The hallmark of the Terran race is it's high micro ceiling and thus requirement for success. Even MKP, the best micro-player in the world, is incapable of perfectly handling large groups of bio and tanks simultaneously. Asking Terrans of all skill-levels to "simply split, drop-micro, or cloak ghosts/ravens" on top of the massive amount of essential Marine/Tank control is a ridiculous suggestion. The Terran slow-push is already working against the clock as soon as it leaves the base and adding more steps to the process limits its chance of success significantly. Furthermore, massing ghosts and ravens is unreasonable, and EMP/HSM are not guaranteed to actually do damage like fungal.
Terrans will need to learn new Zerg timings and scan at more appropriate times to determine which strategy they are facing and react appropriately. The strength of Queens is likely something that needs to be addressed, as it is poor game design to make one strategy so strong that it's not even a choice to pursue it; there is no drawback to going 6 queens. People will figure out what to do, it will just take time.
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Senseless to save your mins up to 450? Why would you do that? Drop one with each 150Mins and you get like 2-3moreMarines.
Bomer is blastin TvP with it. Hes even getting 10more Units with simple Adjustments
This 450Save up is like you wanna play this 1rax cc , 3rax next cc tosave up 850 mins to dropeverything at once...Wasted time
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Ouch ouch ouch
Faulty Logic @Alacast
Terran Deathball seems to be weaker because its like 1/4 of the Z's Gas.
We are fighting with like 1-1,5k Gas against 4-5k (not exactly but you know what i mean)
So if we win a Fight its gg,if we lose we keep reinforcing cheaper.
Build up an army which is worth the same and T willnot be considered as a weaker Lategame-Race in TvZ
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So Terrans have to go Battlecruiser/Raven/Thor/Viking/Banshee/Tank/Ghost?
Great, we would love to! Too bad it's not viable. Tanks aren't doing much for Terrans, Ghosts have been nerfed to the point where they are just used for EMPs and harassment, they are not a core unit. Ravens are promising but mass Ravens just gets fungaled. Ravens need support... Battlecruisers take too long to mass up and they get demolished by Corrupters. Thors are truly weak vs. Brood Lords and Roaches. Vikings and Banshees are good and everything, but Banshees can't hit the Brood Lords and air in general is countered by the Infestor.
tldr: What can we actually do with the gas? Ravens are the most promising option right now but mass Ravens just doesn't work and a sprinkle of Ravens doesn't tip the battle enough. Remember that Zerg is entering the lategame with an advantage - Terran won't have time to build up a fleet of Ravens.
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Has anyone tried doing a Non-FE build against Zerg these days? I feel the biggest thing we can innovate is our openers, but going Hellion FE is falling out of style and Hellion/Banshee just seems silly to me.
Seems like 2-rax MM pressure into an expansion would at least defeat the four/six queen build, but then there's that factor of them not doing that build...
Meh, just an idea. Seems like we're too focused on the FE part of the opener.
On June 20 2012 14:52 Entirety wrote:
So Terrans have to go Battlecruiser/Raven/Thor/Viking/Banshee/Tank/Ghost?
Great, we would love to! Too bad it's not viable. Tanks aren't doing much for Terrans, Ghosts have been nerfed to the point where they are just used for EMPs and harassment, they are not a core unit. Ravens are promising but mass Ravens just gets fungaled. Ravens need support... Battlecruisers take too long to mass up and they get demolished by Corrupters. Thors are truly weak vs. Brood Lords and Roaches. Vikings and Banshees are good and everything, but Banshees can't hit the Brood Lords and air in general is countered by the Infestor.
tldr: What can we actually do with the gas? Ravens are the most promising option right now but mass Ravens just doesn't work and a sprinkle of Ravens doesn't tip the battle enough. Remember that Zerg is entering the lategame with an advantage - Terran won't have time to build up a fleet of Ravens.
Ravens are actually very mediocre. HSM is good, but only if Zerg doesn't split their units (which happens to be A LOT of zergs for some reason). PDD is the only spell worth using.
With that in mind, I think going BC/Raven/Viking with Tank and/or Ghost support would be an interesting mix vs Infestor/Broodlord, but BCs suck without 3/3 and that'll take forever to build up.
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On June 20 2012 14:43 frezMki wrote:
Ouch ouch ouch
Faulty Logic @Alacast
Terran Deathball seems to be weaker because its like 1/4 of the Z's Gas.
We are fighting with like 1-1,5k Gas against 4-5k (not exactly but you know what i mean)
So if we win a Fight its gg,if we lose we keep reinforcing cheaper.
Build up an army which is worth the same and T willnot be considered as a weaker Lategame-Race in TvZ
This of course assumes that Terran has a late-game, high-gas composition that isn't absolute garbage? One could make a strong argument that the modular-nature of the Terran race indicates that gas units are meant to be supplemental to the multi-purpose Marine, rather than the backbone of their army.
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EPT
