EPTYep, I'm playing MMM in TvZ now too...best way to try and outplay your opponent.
[D] TvZ Metagame patch1.4.3.2 - Page 2
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EnE
417 Posts
Yep, I'm playing MMM in TvZ now too...best way to try and outplay your opponent. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10366 Posts
in any case hopefully the balance will be fixed or maybe the metagame will adapt and fix the balance btw ghosts still snipe queens in 4 hits | ||
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Ktk
Korea (South)753 Posts
On June 20 2012 06:55 EnE wrote: @Above: Source or bullshit. If you float gas at 12 mins, then a high level terran WOULDNT GET THE 3RD OR FOURTH REFINERY. So, whether terran is starved for gas midgame or not, I think you're still talking shit since not floating gas is as easy as not mining too much gas. Yeah this only happens when the terran gets a refinery he didn't need in the first place - that's just 75+3 workers' worth of time that could be in minerals. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10366 Posts
On June 20 2012 04:52 Cure2 wrote: So mech is definitely the answer then? I agree that medivacs aren't required for a mech play unless you fancy dropping hellions so in that sense you could be building ravens much earlier than normal. I've had varying degrees of success with mech in the past but I don't like being too passive against a Zerg that realizes he can power drones for a while because my army won't be built anytime soon. Ghosts do 50 damage to queens now (snipe change) so maybe someone can come up with an early to midgame ghost push to repel creep and lower queen numbers. Mech is generally defensive but doesn't mean you have to play passively. There are ways to apply pressure, it's just different than bio. Edit: Hey I wonder if such a thing could work involving ghost harass, cloak and/or just medivac drop, snipe and/or EMP the queens, possibly even snipe the larvae if there are no more queens/energy. | ||
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goFLiP
Argentina39 Posts
Is there any all in that is effective in TvZ these days or did the queen buff make them 100% safe? I'm tired of having to outplay zergs by a 200% these days so I'm just gonna all in or wait till the queen buff is reverted or a terran buff comes out. | ||
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Rockafella
United Kingdom291 Posts
The rest I don't have much of a solution about, TvZ seems pretty hard at the moment! | ||
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Sovern
United States312 Posts
Two fac is also very, very good as double tank production is amazingly good vs infestor play styles and you can even opt for marine/hellion/thor which is a great mid game unit composition. Early game mass hellion play allows you to do a lot of damage and put you in control of the game so I'd like to see more terrans utilize fast double reactored factory hellion play vs zerg. | ||
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`dunedain
657 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10366 Posts
On June 20 2012 08:00 Sovern wrote: Double reactored fac's pumping out hellions off of 1 rax fe or reactor hellion expand seems like a good answer to me. Queens use their energy to create tumors and by having so many hellions out on the field you completely deny queens creep spread ability's and you are safe against ling/baneling all ins a long with roach pokes and you can deny early thirds. I'm not sure what the proper timing would be for going 2 fac asap would be but I'm certain that it would reverse the meta game back to where it was before the queen patch. Two fac is also very, very good as double tank production is amazingly good vs infestor play styles and you can even opt for marine/hellion/thor which is a great mid game unit composition. Early game mass hellion play allows you to do a lot of damage and put you in control of the game so I'd like to see more terrans utilize fast double reactored factory hellion play vs zerg. Hm good point. With the recent popularization of biomech, a 2nd factory won't be "wasted". Perhaps someone has already done this in a pro game? | ||
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Scila
Canada1849 Posts
On June 20 2012 08:03 `dunedain wrote: If they are actually considering Terran using Ravens, Blzzard needs to reduce gas cost and either buff armor or add range to their spells. The Raven spells range are too short that spells aren't that viable without losing the raven <-due to the low armor + short spell range. Ravens will NEVER be used seriously until they make HSM a rival spell to Fungal and Storm. It needs far larger range and far faster movement speed to be useful. | ||
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Yuna
United States103 Posts
Lets all opt to build 4 OCs go up to 8 rax and rally marines into the zerg's base :D | ||
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Dontkillme
Korea (South)806 Posts
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EnE
417 Posts
On June 20 2012 08:41 Yuna wrote: Obviously building 3 OCs just isn't greedy enough. Lets all opt to build 4 OCs go up to 8 rax and rally marines into the zerg's base :D I'll actually consider this... something has to be done. I mean, 3cc makes you lost to an all in anyway, so whats the real harm in 4cc? | ||
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Falcon-sw
United States324 Posts
On June 20 2012 09:14 Dontkillme wrote: Hellion openings dont do shit now. This is annoying Considering all Terran needed to do was mass blue flame hellions, absolutely destroy the zerg economy, and win, this change is welcome, as far as I'm concerned. I forget what tournament it was, but every Terran from a certain team did this strategy and won the vast majority of their TvZ's. | ||
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Gyro_SC2
Canada540 Posts
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Jarree
Finland1004 Posts
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Entirety
1423 Posts
On June 20 2012 09:30 Falcon-sw wrote: Considering all Terran needed to do was mass blue flame hellions, absolutely destroy the zerg economy, and win, this change is welcome, as far as I'm concerned. I forget what tournament it was, but every Terran from a certain team did this strategy and won the vast majority of their TvZ's. That tournament caused blue flame hellions to be nerfed. I'm pretty sure "hellion openings don't do shit now" means the standard bread-and-butter reactor hellions, which makes use of 4-6 red flame hellions, is being denied by queens nowadays. I have a question to ask: is it actually feasible to keep up with Zerg in a straight up macro game? MKP can macro with the best, but he has to constantly pressure the Zerg with pure bio (his waves of units never stop). In my opinion, trying to macro without pressuring against Zerg is a certain death (mech just doesn't cut it...) while Zerg macroing without pressuring leaves Zerg in a very favorable position. Thoughts? | ||
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Gyro_SC2
Canada540 Posts
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dynwar7
1983 Posts
I dont know....mech is viable, but not many many people use it I think...which leaves terrans using MMM as always.. But its good though, as using MMM, you need lots of skills/micro to win, because we use no Tier 3 units, whereas Z and P can use them and still lose to your MMM, so I guess it gives a great feeling. | ||
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Yuna
United States103 Posts
On June 20 2012 10:27 Gyro_SC2 wrote: I think you can't, and it's very hard to put pressure in the early game. With my allin(marine-hellion-scv) I win almost 90% of my game because all the zerg are greedy and make only drone and queens. In my opinion, most players can't because they're going for 3 OCs which is kinda like the in between between greed and safe play. It dies to a lot of stuff but it doesn't let you outmacro Zerg greed. 4 OCs is greedy and with quadruple scv production and 4 mules you'll either die to a bust or win :D... or die to extreme zerg greed. | ||
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