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On March 31 2013 23:47 ZeR wrote:
I just switched from grid to ZRM.
Can someone help me settle into these new hotkeys by posting their current setup? I've been trying to put my army on 9, lings on 0 and mutas on -, but unsure how to use the rest of the CGs.
After injecting, how do I quickly add those units to the control groups? I've been reading about some egg-hotkey method but I'm unsure how to execute it step-by-step.
Finally, is the best way to spread creep to have a single queen on its own CG?
I use 9 and 0 for my main army. Depending on the situation, I'll split these up by unit type, or sometimes I'll just have a mix of units on both, and use two CGs to set up flanks. Since terrains love widow mines right now, I add an overseer to each group.
How to hotkey eggs with the core ZRM: Let's say I want to make 5 roaches and 5 lings and use different hotkeys CGs:
1) press P to select all hatcheries
2) press O to select all larva
3) make 5 roaches (press I in the core 1.0)
4) hold control. click on the wireframe of the eggs. This will select only the eggs.
5) still holding control, press your CG for roaches. Ex: press 9. Release control
6) optional: for overlords, this is a great time to right click anywhere on the minimap to have them automatically move. Note this is a MOVE command and not attack move, so don't do this for army units.
7) Press P, then O, then make 5 lings.
8) hold control, click wireframe of eggs, then press the ling CG (ex: press 0).
now whenever they pop, they'll automatically take orders with the rest of your CG, so once you've seen them pop, make an attack move command nearby the rest of your CG, and they'll come rushing out to reinforce. Using egg hotkeys is crucial to Zerg reinforcement and all-ins. It's one of my favorite things about Zerg that no other race has.
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On March 31 2013 22:24 Luzian wrote:
- Is this really more optimal? Or will I even end up relying too much on a certain layout to be able to play games?
It's really more optimal. A LOT more optimal. Standard layout, even with those adjustments, is an objectively bad layout. It's not a matter of opinion- one layout really is better than the other by a large margin.
I'm not sure what you mean about relying too much on a certain layout to be able to play games. You mean games other than Starcraft? It's not a problem. Do you feel like you are unable to play FPS games with WASD because you're "too used" to the standard starcraft hotkeys? I've actually dealt with playing two different hotkey setups for different games before. I made my own WoW hotkey layout for PvP, and I found that I had to shift my movement keys from WASD over to ESDF in order to have access to more keys (I also made a whole host of other changes). It did not affect my ability to go to other games and use their default layouts.
- I play SC2 only for fun and in general mechanics do not seem incredibly important to me.
Then I would suggest you don't change your layout. The only downside is that it takes time to learn. If improving mechanics and having more ergonomic comfort doesn't seem worth a few weeks of difficulties, then there is no need to bother. For me, it wasn't an issue, because I never played WoL so much that I got entrenched in using a particular layout. I hadn't played SC2 in almost a year since HOTS came out (and I'm playing Zerg instead of Terran), so its like I'm learning how to play a new game rather than unlearning how to play an old one. But personally, even if I was entrenched in using Standard or Grid and had to fumble through the switch like everyone else, I still would have done it with no regrets. (I went through that with WoW)
I currently am against completely changing the side I use my left hand on the keyboard. It will be completely isolated usage solely for SC2 and might even have negative consequences for other tasks.
It won't have negative consequences for other tasks- I really don't have any idea why you think that. Yes, it's isolated to SC2 (unless you later on decide to change hotkeys in other games, which some people end up doing), but I don't see how that is a bad thing at all. Standard layout is also isolated to SC2.
Having your hand on the left side will feel extremely strange for the first few hours (or maybe days), but once you're used to it, it actually makes a lot more sense and feels more comfortable than having your hand on the other side. The only minor annoyance is that I have to shift/tilt my keyboard when I play starcraft, and when I'm done playing (or I want to type something) I have to shift it back.
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Oh, and one bit of advice to anyone right-handed who plans on switching to the core- the way the left side of your keyboard is set up varies a bit from keyboard to keyboard. I had two keyboards available, and one had a very large distance between the left ctrl and left alt (and also a large distance between J and ctrl). Using it meant my thumb had to move a lot (hitting alt was uncomfortable), and I might have used the small layout on that keyboard even though my hand is actually probably slightly larger than average.
On the other keyboard, since everything was a bit closer, medium felt just right, and hitting alt was more comfortable. I went with that keyboard.
So if you have a spare keyboard or two laying around, you might want to test them out and see which one feels right. Don't just assume that since your hands are medium or large that you should be using the medium or large layouts.
Make sure you give it some time before deciding though- cause everything will feel weird at first no matter what keyboard you use.
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The layered cameras are going take some time getting used to but I feel switching to this layout will be a good choice. Good Job Jak!
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On March 31 2013 08:59 Geva wrote:
I know this isn't exactly the right place to ask this, but it still sort of relates.
Are there any Protoss diamond or above players who are using the core and want to help me out and give me some coaching advice? Currently a Platinum protoss looking for a push forward, and I'd love some tips both about my actual play and how the core relates to it, any sort of tips/tricks that benefit toss play or maybe the way you organize your control groups?
It's slightly off topic but it's mainly about other toss core-users. Would love to add someone whom I can discuss the core with.
I have a pretty decent Protoss offrace, if you send me a replay I'll take a look.
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On April 01 2013 01:51 thayneq wrote:
How to hotkey eggs with the core ZRM: Let's say I want to make 5 roaches and 5 lings and use different hotkeys CGs:
Thanks, thats exactly what I wanted to know! I'll start practicing now
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Does anybody else differ from the suggested CG usage (and play terran)? I find that putting my buildings on 9 (cc) and 0 (rax/fact/port) and army on O, P, and L with [ and ] as misc ctrl groups seems better for me. I can hit O J P J L J to move my whole army a lot more easily than 9 J 0 J and then move down to L J.
Why recommend that buildings get hotkeyed in between the army hotkeys?
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@VeeSe,
I may be wrong, but I think it is because the macro control groups are used most often, and are therefore on the homerow.
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@VeeSe and @Ninjury_J: I think it's positioned this way to facilitate good mechanics with a focus on Macro, since Macro is the 1 thing you need to do all game no matter what. If you do the "tap" technique that day9 talked about and that you see on lots of Pro streams, you'll end up hitting the production keys more often than anything else. It only makes sense to have them be the easiest keys to press. Also, if you put your CC on 0 and Rax/Fact/Port on 9, it will make it awkward to produce tanks and banshees which are under K. I can't even imagine making a Turret and shift clicking back to minerals effectively.
Only reason I could see for changing the army to P,O, would be if you were doing some kind of crazy all-in rush where you stopped production and needed all your control groups for microing army. Either way is fine, ultimately, the CGs are "suggested CGs" for best effectiveness, but you can customize it anyway you want.
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Okay guys, anyone with python experience. I need to figure out why Transformation Servos isn't mapping from the lefty layouts to the righty layouts. Let me know if you figure it out before I do 
EDIT: Still haven't figured out TransServos. Everything else seems to be in order. Please DL the newest version from the github and let me know if anything else (non-campaign) is wrong. Starting work on the campaign keys now.
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On April 02 2013 02:35 JaKaTaK wrote:Okay guys, anyone with python experience. I need to figure out why Transformation Servos isn't mapping from the lefty layouts to the righty layouts. Let me know if you figure it out before I do EDIT: Still haven't figured out TransServos. Everything else seems to be in order. Please DL the newest version from the github and let me know if anything else (non-campaign) is wrong. Starting work on the campaign keys now.
I quickly checked the script, and I could not find any "Transformation Servos" or whatever meaningful combination string in it,
perphaps it has been simply forgotten ...
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On April 02 2013 02:35 JaKaTaK wrote:Okay guys, anyone with python experience. I need to figure out why Transformation Servos isn't mapping from the lefty layouts to the righty layouts. Let me know if you figure it out before I do EDIT: Still haven't figured out TransServos. Everything else seems to be in order. Please DL the newest version from the github and let me know if anything else (non-campaign) is wrong. Starting work on the campaign keys now.
TransformationServos isn't listed in MapDefinitions.ini, which determines what to map and which type of map to use.
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It's also not mentioned anywhere in TheCoreRemapper.py, which means it won't be checked for conflicts. That will need amending as well. Here's the part of CONFLICT_CHECKS that refers to the factory tech lab:
['ResearchHighCapacityBarrels/FactoryTechLab','ResearchSiegeTech/FactoryTechLab','ResearchStrikeCannons/FactoryTechLab'],
['ResearchHighCapacityBarrels/FactoryTechLab','ResearchShapedBlast/FactoryTechLab','ResearchCerberusMines/FactoryTechLab','ResearchMultiLockTargetingSystem/FactoryTechLab','ResearchRegenerativeBioSteel/FactoryTechLab'],
I presume you'll need to remove Siege Tech from there as well, don't know if that will cause problems. I don't know if Servos needs adding to SAME_CHECKS as well.
Might also be more stuff that needs updating for HotS in those conflict checks and same checks? At a glance some stuff has been done (eg new units are in) so maybe it was just Servos that fell through the cracks.
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On April 02 2013 03:15 Fang Xianfu wrote:It's also not mentioned anywhere in TheCoreRemapper.py, which means it won't be checked for conflicts. That will need amending as well. Here's the part of CONFLICT_CHECKS that refers to the factory tech lab: ['ResearchHighCapacityBarrels/FactoryTechLab','ResearchSiegeTech/FactoryTechLab','ResearchStrikeCannons/FactoryTechLab'],
['ResearchHighCapacityBarrels/FactoryTechLab','ResearchShapedBlast/FactoryTechLab','ResearchCerberusMines/FactoryTechLab','ResearchMultiLockTargetingSystem/FactoryTechLab','ResearchRegenerativeBioSteel/FactoryTechLab'], I presume you'll need to remove Siege Tech from there as well, don't know if that will cause problems. I don't know if Servos needs adding to SAME_CHECKS as well. Might also be more stuff that needs updating for HotS in those conflict checks and same checks? At a glance some stuff has been done (eg new units are in) so maybe it was just Servos that fell through the cracks.
I believe Servos fell through the cracks because it was not in the game at the time when Sixtus added all those conflict checks. Anything else that changed towards the end of the beta should also be double-checked. ResearchSiegeTech should stay in there to account for backwards compatibility for WoL I think.
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Yes, we're keeping TheCore backwards compatible for WoL so those commands will still be in there. I haven't gone through the same/conflicts checks, but we should definitely do that before release.
If anyone wants to help with the campaign compatibility I'm making a list of hokey file text lines that I don't know. If you can figure them out and let me know, it would help a lot. Look for "What the fuck is this" at the bottom of the first column
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtFSjIb2ibJTdHNwWXBBZTExdUY1d21kWmE2SmZLSUE#gid=0
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I went through the beta patches quickly back to balance update 8 to check for errors and it doesn't look like there were any more abilities added or switched that aren't reflected in the file. The only thing that might've gone wrong is swapping time warp onto the mothership core, but that's correct in the file so should all be fine.
Might be worth going through all the conflict checks and same checks one by one and making sure they're correct and necessary before release, though, for sure
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On April 01 2013 14:25 VeeSe wrote:
Does anybody else differ from the suggested CG usage (and play terran)? I find that putting my buildings on 9 (cc) and 0 (rax/fact/port) and army on O, P, and L with [ and ] as misc ctrl groups seems better for me. I can hit O J P J L J to move my whole army a lot more easily than 9 J 0 J and then move down to L J.
Why recommend that buildings get hotkeyed in between the army hotkeys?
I'm slightly different and still experimenting:
P = CCs and upgrades
O = Army production
L MMM / Hellion / Hellbat / Thor
; Tank (TvT, TvZ) / Mines (TvZ) / Ghost (TvP) <- Never together
9 Vikings / BCs (Precedence on yamato vs. land?)
0 Ravens
[ Harass #1
- Harass #2
Few things to note:
1) I don't have a "whole army" key.
2) I don't hotkey tech labs
3) I've tried "- J 0 J 9 J" for main army and didn't like it.
4) My attack "rhythm" is two pairs of CGs: "L J ; J" and then "9 J 0 J". Its feeling better, but not natural yet. Also, for some reason it starting with the middle finger instead of the index feels more natural and faster.
On a side note, do any terrans have advice on the most efficient way of managing medivacs with your main army? For example, attacking with your MMM CG and keeping your medivacs from running ahead of your army. Currently I just do:
1) L J (attack with MMM)
2) Prev sub group (moves to page with medivacs)
3) Ctrl-click the medivacs
4) J on a marine/marauder
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On April 02 2013 02:35 JaKaTaK wrote: Please DL the newest version from the github and let me know if anything else (non-campaign) is wrong. Starting work on the campaign keys now.
Doesn't seem to be anything new on github to download. You mean https://github.com/jonnyhweiss/TheCoreConverter right?
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On April 02 2013 04:31 Borskey wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2013 02:35 JaKaTaK wrote: Please DL the newest version from the github and let me know if anything else (non-campaign) is wrong. Starting work on the campaign keys now. Doesn't seem to be anything new on github to download. You mean https://github.com/jonnyhweiss/TheCoreConverter right?
@Jak -- perhaps you have forgotten to sync your local changes?
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EPT
